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#45091 - 02/12/03 04:48 PM XOver still active when front speakers set to large
jray Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 3
I have noticed that the crossover settings are still active when I have my front speakers set to "Large" and subwoofer set to
"Off". Changing the crossover settings defintely changes the sound of the bass coming from the front speakers.

Should this be happening? I was under the assumption that when the speakers settings were configured as above that the crossover would have no effect on the signal. My front speakers are towers with each one housing a 300 watt powered subwoofer. It was recommended by the speaker manufacturer (Cambridge Soundworks) to bi-wire the speakers and set the preamp speaker configuration as described above. The idea is to deliver a full-range signal to both the high and low ranges of the speaker and let the speaker's internal crossover figure out what to send to the subwoofer. This is supposedly preferrable to using a line-level connection from the preamps sub-out to the speakers sub-in.

Anyhow, when I contacted Cambridge and ask for a recommendation on crossover settings they were a little perplexed when I told them that the crossovers were still active
even though I configured the preamp's speaker settings per their recommendations.

I read in a different post that somebody else thought they might have the same problem.

Anybody got any ideas on what is going on here? Or am I wrong in my assumptions? My next step is to contact Outlaw.

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#45092 - 02/12/03 05:51 PM Re: XOver still active when front speakers set to large
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
I may be wrong here, but here's one possible explanation. With the sub set to off, the towers are also taking care of material from the center and surrounds (assuming they are set to small).

Here's a possible test for you: try a CD with the 950 set in "Stereo" mode (so that the center and surrounds are not active) and see what happens as you change the crossover settings. Then switch to "5 Stereo" and repeat -- the bass going to the mains will likely vary based on crossover points in this scenario, because full-range signals are going to surrounds and center and the crossovers and re-directing bass to the front speakers.

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#45093 - 02/12/03 08:39 PM Re: XOver still active when front speakers set to large
Scott Griscom Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 60
Loc: Charlotte, NC, USA
I had the same problem with the crossover changing the sub output even with the main speakers set to large. I would contact outlaw and troubleshoot with them.

Scott

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#45094 - 02/14/03 08:22 AM Re: XOver still active when front speakers set to large
jcmccorm Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 73
Loc: Madison, AL, USA
Hmmm, I gave my "Pre red dot" unit a shot last night. I had a digital source (music file playing on HTPC, PCM format) and set the 950 to "stereo" with the front speakers set to small. The sub was active. Then I set the front speakers to large - the sub went mute (no cone motion at all). Works as it should. Maybe there's something wrong with your specific unit?

Cary

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#45095 - 02/15/03 03:24 PM Re: XOver still active when front speakers set to large
Scott Griscom Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 60
Loc: Charlotte, NC, USA
Just tested with my new blue dot and got the following results. In stereo mode switching from large to small on the front speakers passed bass to the sub and then did not pass bass, just as it should. However, in 7 stereo with all speakers set to large, I still get bass from my sub that is affected by the crossover setting of the front speakers. Also, I still experience about a 6 db increase in volume in my rear speakers when switching from small to large. This only happens when the fronts are set to large. Leaving the rears set to large and switching the fronts back to small reduces the volume back down by 6 db in the rear. Actually back to calibration level. I haven't tried this in other modes yet but wanted to see if someone else could test this scenario and see if they can reproduce what I am experiencing. It may be normal functionality, but seems a bit odd to have volume levels change with the speaker size selector. Also, set all speakers to large and see if the sub still plays and if it is affected by the triple crossover.

BTW, my input is from my CD player via the optical 4 input.

Thanks,
Scott

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#45096 - 02/16/03 10:47 AM Re: XOver still active when front speakers set to large
Scott Griscom Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 60
Loc: Charlotte, NC, USA
Just noticed one thing that should have been obvious. With all speakers set to large and the subwoofer ON, you will still get the .1 LFE channel through the sub. However, the crossover should not affect the sub output level. I still wonder what is happening in 7 Stereo mode, seeing as there is no .1 channel.

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#45097 - 02/16/03 01:59 PM Re: XOver still active when front speakers set to large
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
I'm not sure how 7 stereo generates signals to other channels, but I was thinking about something sdurani posted recently regarding how some matrix decoders works -- it is possible that 7 stereo generates a LFE channel and produces non-full range signals for the other channels...

Quote:
sdurani said :
I used to think that modern matrix decoders (like Neo:6 and PL II) used to first generate 5 full range channels, which would then be bass managed into a 5.1 speaker set-up. However, it turned out to work a little differently than that. In receivers and processor I've had experience with, the matrix decoders did not generated full range signals for every channel unless they were all set to 'large'. If any of them were set to 'small', they got a derived signal that only contained sounds above the crossover point. It's not like that channel was full-range content that existed discretely on the recording. Since it this derived channel never had full-range content, there's no bass to move around. Each channel gets only what's above the crossover point.


It's a pretty random hypothesis, but I've never really seen specifics on how the 5/7 stereo mode actually works.

------------------
gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review
_________________________
gonk
HT Basics | HDMI FAQ | Pics | Remote Files | Art Show
Reviews: Index | 990 | speakers | BDP-93

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#45098 - 02/16/03 02:53 PM Re: XOver still active when front speakers set to large
Scott Griscom Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 60
Loc: Charlotte, NC, USA
Great thought Gonk. As you said, who knows how the 7 stereo back speakers are being matrixed.

Any idea why my surround backs would have a 6db increase when they and the fronts are set to large and then loose that 6db once the fronts are set back to small?

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#45099 - 02/16/03 03:43 PM Re: XOver still active when front speakers set to large
soundhound Offline
Desperado

Registered: 04/10/02
Posts: 1857
Loc: Gusev Crater, Mars
I have noticed that the gain is increased when set to 5 stereo or 7 stereo, but I haven't noticed it being effected by crossover settings.

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#45100 - 02/16/03 04:19 PM Re: XOver still active when front speakers set to large
Scott Griscom Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 60
Loc: Charlotte, NC, USA
I noticed that gain also, but really noticed it when changing speaker size more than crossover setting.

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