Just thought I'd share a few quick CEDIA pics from SMR's annual show report. Once on the page, you can click on any image for a larger view. Enjoy.

Outlaw clones and the Sherbourn gang (near bottom of page):

http://www.smr-home-theatre.org/cedia2002/home_theater/page_05.shtml

For those who've never seen Outlaw Peter Tribeman:

http://www.smr-home-theatre.org/cedia2002/people/page_02.shtml

Best,
Sanjay

Peter Tribeman never worked for AR as far as I know. But he was with Advent.

Very interesting article. It appears they were having more problems with the final design of the 950 than it appeared, and Eastech wasn't able to cure the (hiss?) problems.

Also note that, while the basic form factor and layout remains the same, a few things can be swapped in and out. Sherbourn really is putting a higher bandwidth video board. The 950 "clones" might not be the carbon copies I originally thought they were.

Sanjay

For those who've never seen Outlaw Peter Tribeman
Since I had the opportunity to speak with Peter several times when I received a test red-dot 950, it was nice to be able to put face to voice. (Hi Peter, hope you and yours are well)
Thanks Sanjay.

I wonder if this is a new development that might help current owners of the 950 with their high levels of hiss.



I wonder if this means that the AVM-20 will be available for any cheaper...

You're welcome Lena. I've seen plenty of pics of other Outlaws, but this is the first I'd seen of Tribeman. The rest of the report was pretty interesting too.

For example: Fosgate Audionics is coming out with surround processors that were announced as having a 7-channel implementation of PL II. Since this is (PL II inventor) Jim Fosgate's company, I was curious to say the least. Well surprise surprise: turns out they are expanding PL II using Cirrus Extra Surround, just like the Outlaw and Rotel processors.

Sanjay

Is Peter still working for/affiliated with Atlantic Tech??

I noticed that. If it's at all true (I suspect at least a grain of truth, really) then maybe the AT would be worth a look if its not to bad.

OTOH B&K Ref30's are going on eBay (used) for ~$1500, so that's worth thinking over, at least for me.

Charlie, If you think the 950 is hissy...

Well, let me put it this way. Just make sure you audition a Ref 30 before buying one, even at those terrific used prices. I've read postings where Ref 30 owners complained about the unit's noise floor.

Best,
Sanjay

And according to Sanjay's first link, not to be outdone, the Sunfire Theater Grand III, supports a 9.1 channel configuration.

Just keep in mind in all this channel escalation to "27.1" or who knows what else - movies are mixed at a maximum of 5.1 'hard' channels. Dolby EX adds a _matrixed_ back surround channel to this. This is _not_ going to change in the forseeable future. All those 'channels' added after the fact by the pre/pro are 'synthesized' and are actually 'distrortions' of the original intent of the film mix. They may sound just fine - but just remember that the original source is just 5.1 actual channels. Sony's SDDS is a variation to this that is _only_ heard in _some_ theatres; they have 5 hard channels behind the screen instead of 3, for an actual channel count of 7.1. To tell the truth, having heard this format in a mixing situation, it _does_ add to the seamlessness across the screen to have those extra 2 channels between the far left and far right speakers.

What about DTS-ES 6.1 DISCRETE soundhound? When used, it IS a separate channel in the mix, and is not matrixed into the L/R surrounds. According to Digital Theater Systems, when Discrete is decoded by the surround processor, it will also subtact the matrix info out of the L/R surrounds allowing them to remain independent.

Yes, you are right about the discrete DTS back channel. When a film soundtrack master that has a back surround leaves the dubbing stage for DTS encoding, it has a discrete back surround channel. This still does not change the fact that anything beyond 5.1 or 6.1 in DTS in a pre/pro is _synthesized_ no matter how much marketing spin the manufacturers put on it.

Regarding DTS using the matrix in addition to the discrete in the back surrounds - the fact is that the back surround channel is mixed in MONO (both DD and DTS) and no after the fact scheme can make it otherwise - again anything more is _synthesized_, and NOT what the mixers intended.

Personally, I like the effect of 'stereoized' back surrounds: I'm not dumping on what anybody finds pleasing - I just wanted to inject a dose of reality check in all this. Marketing types will try to convince you of anything to move product!


[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited October 27, 2002).]

I'd be curious what actually gets sent to those two additional speakers. According to the report, they seem to be used for Sunfire's all-speaker-stereo mode.

Sanjay

What has the number of discrete channels got to do with anything, especially "original intent"? Should Pro Logic material be played back over only 2 speakers? After all (to paraphrase you) the original source is just 2 actual channels.

Best,
Sanjay

Please re-read my post _carefully_

Of course ProLogic should be replayed with more than 2 channels, as it is a matrixed format. Films now are mixed with 5.1 or 6.1 channels, and having a pre/pro 'synthesize' more 'channels' should be looked upon as exactly what it is - a re-intrepretation of what is on the original track, and not what was actually heard in the dubbing theatre. If you LIKE what these pre/pros add, GREAT! Just don't confuse it for what was heard in the original mix.


[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited October 27, 2002).]

Thanks again Sanjay, I had clicked in quick and did not read all pages. I find it very interesting indeed that the inventor of DP11 chose Cirrus to implement 7 channel extensions for his FAP-T1

Regarding the Outlaw clones, since the “The core unit can be slightly customized.. but the basic architecture is fixed” as products launch it will be engaging to track if sound differences will be marginal or noticeable with the bulk of additional purchase price still just buying ‘the look’.

Lena, Yeah, go figure. Still, if you're buying a surround processor for the surround processing (what a concept), it's comforting to know that there's not much fancy-shmancy processing in Fosgate's own pre-pro that you don't have on your 950. Score one for the $899 unit! I'm guess the difference in sonics will be closer to marginal, if any at all. What can I say, I'm a skeptic (though I can't prove it).

Best,
Sanjay