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#36826 - 02/14/02 10:44 PM Re: Lexicon MC-12 and the 950
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
Here are Gene's comments comparing the 950's processing to the MC-12's. He hopes to report on DVD-Audio playback next week.

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Gonk
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#36827 - 02/14/02 11:32 PM Re: Lexicon MC-12 and the 950
sdurani Offline
Desperado

Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 765
Loc: Monterey Park, CA
I too was waiting for Gene's evaluation of how Cirrus Extra Surround compared to Lexicon's Logic 7. Unfortunately, I never got a clear understanding from his review of what CES really is.

He discusses how it processes 2 channel material, but then he mentions it again when he's discussing 5.1 sources that have undergone post processing (as opposed to 5.1 sources with no additional processing, which he discusses further down). So, does CES enhance 2 channel material or 5.1 channel material or both? It's never really clear. He then adds:
Quote:
...PL2-CES Music is an excellent post processing algorithm, likely to become an industry standard like ProLogic. Is it in the same league as Logic 7? Not really, but I would have reported that before I heard the 950, since the MC-12 includes several variants of PL2. All one has to do to compare is put on a CD and and toggle between Logic 7 and PL2 with the remote. PL2 is excellent. I'm glad I have it in the MC-12 - but it is no Logic 7.

He would have reported those findings before hearing the 950 because he could compare Logic 7 to PL II in his MC-12? What does that mean; is CES basically PL II? (Am I missing something here?) Further down he says:
Quote:
...when you play 5.1 software in pure 5.1 mode, the rear speakers are silent with the sides active on the 950, while the reverse is true for the MC-12. This is very noticeable to one accustomed to one or the other.

I have absolutely no idea what he's talking about here. On the MC-12 (or ANY other Lexicon processor, for that matter) if you play a 5.1 source in "pure 5.1 mode", the surrounds are run in parallel: the left surround channel info is sent to the left side & rear speakers and the right surround info is sent to the right side & rear speakers. That is, unlike what Gene has stated, NONE of the speakers are silent. (Trust me on the above; I've owned and used Lexicon processors since 1995, and been living with a MC-12 since August of last year.)

Anyway, I hope he clarifies his statements. Or at the very least I hope someone explains what CES is.

_______
Sanjay
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#36828 - 02/15/02 12:04 AM Re: Lexicon MC-12 and the 950
Smart Little Lena Offline
Desperado

Registered: 01/09/02
Posts: 1019
Loc: Dallas
Sanjay,
Confused me too as I'm still getting a handle on all the processing modes.
I thought CES (Music & Cinema) were processing choices, seperate (and additional) to PL2, (two modes). Yet it seemed as if he did treat it as a combined process.
I also thought most 5.1 modes matrixed out to 7.1 if you them online?
Can you post to HTF? (I lurk there but have never registered). The beta testers seem to be awfully nice about trying to reply to any and all questions.

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#36829 - 02/15/02 12:08 AM Re: Lexicon MC-12 and the 950
steves Offline
Desperado

Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 356
Loc: Oregon
Sanjay,

Good questions. I think CES stands for "Cirrus Extra Surround". I'm not sure, but was guessing he was using PL2 with CES as a sort of "post processing" to get 7 channel sound(?). I was also sort of under the impression CES is Cirrus's own version of the Logic7 algorithm. Just a guess on my part- and I'm also confused. Thanks for bringing this up. Hope someone can clear this up. By the way, since you mention that you currently have a MC-12, are you also looking to get the 950?

[This message has been edited by steves (edited February 15, 2002).]

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#36830 - 02/15/02 12:15 AM Re: Lexicon MC-12 and the 950
Smart Little Lena Offline
Desperado

Registered: 01/09/02
Posts: 1019
Loc: Dallas
Darn, I think I meant repeated the signal in BL/BR, not matrixed, anyhow, (no dead speakers).

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#36831 - 02/15/02 12:31 AM Re: Lexicon MC-12 and the 950
vox Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 07/02/01
Posts: 38
Loc: lake stevens, WA; USA
Gonk, Owl's Warden, Sklenar, somebody:

In Robert A. Fowks reply over at HTFon Feb 14 at 9:42 pm to John he reports "... the firewire connection does exactly what I expected ...". Did I miss something somewhere? The Outlaws did say that firewire wasn't (can't think of the word) at this time.

[This message has been edited by vox (edited February 15, 2002).]

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#36832 - 02/15/02 01:35 AM Re: Lexicon MC-12 and the 950
sdurani Offline
Desperado

Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 765
Loc: Monterey Park, CA
Quote:
I thought CES (Music & Cinema) were processing choices, seperate (and additional) to PL2, (two modes).

Like Vinnie Barbarino would say "I am so confuuuused!"

I actually thought CES was supposed to be some new 7 channel matrix decoding, not a variant of PL II. But its full name seems to imply that it actually expands on PL II. Now, folks have been asking, begging, speculating, etc for a 7 channel version of PL II ever since the format was released. I wonder if CES is something that extracts a centre back channel(s) from PL II's stereo surrounds without officially being a Dolby product (you know, just like the Outlaw 1050 receiver extracts a centre back channel from the stereo surround channels of DD 5.1 without officially being DD-EX).
Quote:
Can you post to HTF? (I lurk there but have never registered).

Ditto. I lurk there (mostly because of the 950 coverage), but I've never registered either. Maybe our Mr. Prillaman will say something (hint hint Gonk).

_______
Sanjay

[This message has been edited by sdurani (edited February 17, 2002).]
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#36833 - 02/15/02 01:58 AM Re: Lexicon MC-12 and the 950
sdurani Offline
Desperado

Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 765
Loc: Monterey Park, CA
Steves,
Quote:
I'm not sure, but was guessing he was using PL2 with CES as a sort of "post processing" to get 7 channel sound(?). I was also sort of under the impression CES is Cirrus's own version of the Logic7 algorithm. Just a guess on my part- and I'm also confused.

Confused? Welcome to the club. I was guessing the exact same as you; after all, isn't that how they billed CES, as some sort of new 7.1 channel matrix decoder?
Quote:
By the way, since you mention that you currently have a MC-12, are you also looking to get the 950?

Nope, but I know folks that are. You know how it is when folks bug you with questions about what "stereo" to get. The 950/770 combo is cheaper than many of those mega-receivers; and I think it's a better value. Besides, the 950 is easily one of the most exciting products to come out in a while! Who wouldn't be following the drama of a piece of hardware that is about to shatter the price/performance barrier.

_______
Sanjay

P.S. Vox, I think RAF was having a little fun and pulling our legs. ;-)

sd
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#36834 - 02/15/02 05:53 AM Re: Lexicon MC-12 and the 950
Ellen Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 04/09/01
Posts: 76
Loc: East of the Rock, West of the ...
Quote:
JBL and HK have Logic 7 because they and Lexicon are all part of the Harman International group. I very much doubt that the Cirrus chip does the L7 decoding -- that code is proprietary to Lexicon and they have not shown any interest in licensing it outside their group. Interestingly it appears as though the new Mark Levinson processor ($40K) will not have L7 even though it was originally on the feature list.


I've often wondered about this. If you poke thru the datasheet for the Cirrus CS49300 family of DSP chips, it lists Logic 7 as one of the supported formats. See http://www.cirrus.com/design/products/overview/detail.cfm?d=45 I haven't read the whole thing (it's waaaay over my head) so I'm not sure exactly what "support" means.

[This message has been edited by Ellen (edited February 15, 2002).]

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#36835 - 02/15/02 07:30 AM Re: Lexicon MC-12 and the 950
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
Quote:
Originally posted by vox:
Gonk, Owl's Warden, Sklenar, somebody:

In Robert A. Fowks reply over at HTFon Feb 14 at 9:42 pm to John he reports "... the firewire connection does exactly what I expected ...". Did I miss something somewhere? The Outlaws did say that firewire wasn't (can't think of the word) at this time.


I think he was taking a friendly jab at a former member of the forum (who apparently got himself perma-banned) who made a huge fuss over the need for firewire. RAF also goes on to say that it worked with all the devices available at this time that use firewire (translation=none). There is no firewire.

------------------
Gonk
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gonk
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