Does the 950 memorize speaker level settings? For example, if I like to listen to CD's with only L/R and Sub at a setting of X, but I listen to DVD with 7 speakers and Sub at a setting of Y, will the 950 remember these settings and change automatically when I switch from CD to DVD or do I have to reset the levels every time I switch.

Thanks

You can tell the 950 to always use a seven speaker processing mode for a DVD player, and to use just straight stereo for a CD player. Whatever processing you use with an input, it will stick with that mode until you change it.

It doesn't allow different volume levels when switching inputs.

My friend's B&K receiver allows you to adjust the level of each input, but I haven't seen anything like that in the 950 menus.


------------------
JeffLH

In my book, individual speaker settings are very important. I have an "old" H/K AVR 500 that does remember speaker settings for each input. This is something I use all the time. For instance, neutral settings for the surrounds with my Playstation 2 and TV input are a bit quite for my tastes (when the source is supposedly Pro Logic) while the Dolby Digital/DTS neutral settings are perfet. I really think that since this isn't included in the 950 it should be included in the up-coming high-end design. I can't imagine it is that hard to incorporate if it's in a $500 receiver.

Add it to my "wish list" in the new products suggestions forum. It's one of the things I don't think I hit on yet.

OK, I apologize for not understanding all of this stuff, but hey, I'm still learning.

So, the 950 will automatically switch from L/R + sub to 7.1 when I switch from CD to DVD.

But, it will not change the subwoofer level so if it set at "X" for CD it will stay at "X" when I switch to DVD. If I want it to be "Y" for DVD I will have to change it each time I switch.

Is this correct? ARe there processors on the market that will automatically switch the level from "X" to "Y" and back again when you switch between CD and DVD?

Thanks

Doug,

One of the beta testers, JeffLH, posted the 950's menu screens. Here is the Input Configuration menu:

Input Config

Source: DVD
Input: Coaxial 1
Mode: PL2 Music
Treble: 0dB (+/- 6dB, by 2dB increments)
Bass: 0dB
Night: No Comp (DR Comp 1 to 4)

Return to Main Menu

As you can see, there are some parameters that can be set on a per input basis. While they're not the same as the speaker level settings that you were inquiring about, the Bass & Treble adjustments should help you somewhat tailor the sound of each input to your liking.

And yes, there are pre/pros and receivers that let you adjust and store more parameters, including speaker levels, for each input. But I don't know if any of them are at this price point.

_______
Sanjay

Unfortunately, the bass and treble settings can't be saved per input. I had never tested that, but after reading Sanjay's post, I thought maybe it was something I'd missed...

Nope. I tried it this morning and the bass and treble settings are universal.



------------------
JeffLH

Aw, man...! That's too bad. The fact that Bass & Treble adjustments were up in the Input Configuration menu gave me hope that they could be set on a per input basis. Oh well.

Jeff, are you sure they're global settings? I ask because the other items in that menu are not global (I mean, "Coaxial 1" can't be a universal setting for all inputs).

_______
Sanjay

Surely this is a bug? It doesn't support different sub volumes for music vs HT? My old Denon 3200 receiver does that. I thought it was a standard feature!

I never run the sub at the same volume for music and HT - they are 4dB different in my setup.

This is a real deal breaker for me, as my main reason for getting a 950 was to finally get my sub sorted out, via the multiple crossovers. My Denon has the xover fixed at 80Hz.

Now the 950 will fix that but introduce another sub problem? Arrgh, how frustrating.

I really hope this report is wrong or that this is a bug that's been fixed.

Jeff tell me I am wrong
Are you saying that speaker level(+ or - db)settings are not set for each input or DSP independent.This would be a major oversight of the 950 design if this is true.My current receiver allows different level settings for each input and DSP mode until I change them.Please Confirm

Sorry to have to confirm - the volume is independent of input or DSP setting.

I don't understand the issue with the sub volume... I use a sub to fill in the bottom octaves that my main speakers can't reach. I want it to be as flat as possible, which to me means that it would play at the same volume level across the board.

Anyway, if you really need to turn off the sub for some inputs, how about plugging the sub into an X10 home-automation outlet (or appliance module) and then programming a macro on the new Outlaw remote to turn it on and off per input?



------------------
JeffLH

Jeff ,I didnt mean volume,I meant speaker levels being memorized for each input.My current receiver will memorize different levels for each input and DSP modes also.I waiting to hear back from Scott about this now.I hope the manual come out soon for everyone,there seems to be quite a few questions floating around and the manual should answer everyones concerns.Thanks Brian

I still have to disappoint you. All of the speaker configurations (level, crossover, and distance) are universal. They are not associated with any specific input or DSP.

I wonder if the macro programming on the remote will allow enough steps to navigate the menu system and adjust some of these params??




------------------
JeffLH

Maybe; but I'm not sure I'd want the unit to take three seconds to switch inputs while all the macros ran...

I wonder if they simply lacked the memory space to hold 11 sets of complete processor settings? I'm curious how many bits are available in the unit's settings storage. I wouldn't have minded two or three settings "profiles," assignable to each input... I'm sure that would have been easier than storing settings for every input.

Perhaps this is one of the things they could address with a software upgrade down the line, if enough people thought it was important?

Thanks Jeff,I hadnt even thought about using the macros,I think there would be to many steps for the macros to accomplish.I will just have to get my 950,listen to it,read the manual and decide.My H/K avr500 which I use as a preamp allows different levels for every input and DSP for each input,along with a progamable start up volume(nice feature).This receiver also uses a crystal DSP engine which is why I had hoped that Outlaw would include these features.Oh well, if the 950 sounds great like I think it will those little extras on my H/K will probably be forgotten anyway!

A note that just popped up in the HTF thread about the 950 concerns me a litte. It says that there is no on screen display on the component video output. That would mean that if you wanted to change settings on the sub or whatever whenever you switched inputs, you'd have to drop to S-vid mode to see what you're doing.

I've asked for confirmation over there, but haven't heard back yet, but getting my OSD back was one of the things I was looking forward to in a unit that does component video switching. Does anyone know if this is true of the other units out there with this functionality?


brianca.

From what I have read most OSDs dont work with component video outputs on their receivers and prepros.I think it affects picture quality.

Brian is right, OSD on component video is very rare. If your unit is visible (not stuck in a closet), you can do everything by looking at the unit's display.

------------------
Gonk

Or run four cables from the pre/pro to your TV instead of three. I'm sure you have at least one source that requires either composite or S-Video.

------------------
Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net

Unfortunately all of my equipment is in another room and I don't have any sources that need s-vid or composite. I do have a S-vid run left over from when I did need it though, so I can use that. I just hate not being able to see the volume setting when I'm changing it and sub levels and whatnot.

It's not a deal breaker, just a pain. Especially if none of the other's offer it either. Why would it effect image quality on component and not on S-vid?


brianca..

Component video involves a lot more bandwidth -- which means a lot more data to try to manipulate to add to it. I think that's the key reason that component video switching typically is purely switching (no OSD or composite/S-Video signal switching). Somebody else around here may be able to offer a better explanation, though.

------------------
Gonk

There are some receivers and pre/pros that offer OSD (On Screen Display) via component outs. It's rare though. Even rarer is to have the OSD info overlayed on top of a component video signal. I'm not sure but I think the Meridian 861 can overlay OSD on its component video outs. My MC-12 has OSD on component out, but against a blue screen and not overlayed on top of the video signal (which it does on composite & s-video outs). Even the upcoming $30,000 Mark Levinson No.40 processor doesn't do OSD overlays on the component outs; the info is displayed against a black screen.

The reason for this, from what I've read, is that it is difficult to synchronize video text & graphics to all 3 "channels" of video (which, let's face it, is what a component signal is). It's probably not cost effective for most companies to offer it as a featue.

_______
Sanjay

Consider also that component video may be progressive or interlaced, standard definition or any of several high definition resolutions... the problem becomes significantly more complex. Composite and S-Video both are only a single resolution and always interlaced.

I must admit, though, that an OSD overlay on all three outputs would be real nice... Considering you basically lose your TV's OSD for volume control when you add a receiver, it would add back that lost functionality. If the 950's successor had that as well as upconverting all sources to component... THAT would be convenience.

Would probably double the price of the thing though.

Here's an off-the-wall idea for cutting the bass on CDs... What if you use a crappy interconnect, known to be bass deficient?

But seriously, how about installing a high-pass filter on the CD player's outputs? PartsExpress has 12dB/octave 20Hz or 30Hz high-pass filters for only $26.

If you're using a DVD player, tell the 950 to use the digital output for DVDs, and connect the analog output (with the filters) to the 950's CD input. You would still have full bass from DVDs, and little or no sub activity for CDs.


------------------
JeffLH

Heh. This thread has gotten so long, I'd forgotten what it was originally about.

Would you really want to cut off all the frequencies below a crossover point, though? My thought was you'd just want to reduce them in level somewhat. Hence, an equalizer.

I'm not a speaker designer, but I am an engineer so take what I know with several grains of salt.

I'm pretty sure you want to aggresively filter out frequencies that fall outside the crossover frequency. Whether we're talking about filtering high-frequencies from a bass driver or low-frequencies from a tweeter, if a driver sees frequencies well outside its performance curve it will probably distort, fail outright (ouch) or generate intermodulation distortion (IM) which results from trying to produce widely disparate frequencies at the same time (or some combination of all three).

For example, you will generally get significantly better performance out of your main 2 speakers if you don't feed them tons of bass. (Unless your main speakers are designed for this). Probably better to send all those subterrean signals to a well-balanced sub (say a Vandersteen 2wq).

I'm sure you will get a more accurate answer from the speaker building hobbyists and crossover filter designers. People who know a lot more about first and second order filters than I'll ever know. (If I've flubbed this one severly I'll apologize to Carl Marchisotto, John Dunlavy and the other speaker gods later)

Good luck,

Jim Burnes

Your right Matt, I don't have a clue to why the tangent.

If you put a 12db passive crossover for your sealed satellites you'll get a 24db/octave slope and 36 db for vented speakers. That will attenuate lows quite a bit.

[This message has been edited by rcaudio (edited February 21, 2002).]

Oh, we're talking about crossovers? I guess I missed the point. I thought the original question was how to reduce the total amount of bass in the system, as it sounded "bass heavy" for certain inputs. I didn't think you'd want to throw away fequencies completely, only reduce their relative volume.

------------------
Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net