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#34519 - 11/15/03 02:11 PM Why a subwoofer?
Raider Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 11/30/02
Posts: 105
Loc: Cleveland, TN
With the latest announcements I am sure the LFM section will light up with conversation and great information.
I would appreciate response to my question. I have the 950/7100 and am very impressed with it. I also have a $150 credit from The Outlaws as my purchase was within the 30 day period when the price reduction came about last June. I love these guys.
My front speakers are Klipsch Legends 20 which have some pretty darn good bass. What could I expect from a subwoofer as far as bass goes. I have never had a sub and have never heard one. Would it be worth the bucks if you have, as I do, some pretty low bass coming from my fronts. I love HT but am also spending a lot of time with SACD and DVD audio music, which is fantastic.
Thanks to all for your opinions.

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#34520 - 11/16/03 05:58 AM Re: Why a subwoofer?
Lasher Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 07/29/03
Posts: 191
Loc: Oak Ridge TN.
The biggest difference I noticed with a subwoofer is with home theater tracks. It's like night and day! I was running 2 HUGE Studio Monitors with 2 15"ers a piece and did not think a sub would add much. Boy was I wrong! If you have a local A/V store in your area go listen to one and you'll notice the difference. A sub(or 2 or 3) is the only way to go with DD DTS soundtracks.

Lasher

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#34521 - 11/16/03 06:12 AM Re: Why a subwoofer?
RayBan Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 50
Loc: Oak Lawn
I'm in a similar position as Raider. I have some nice mains which produce some good sounding bass, I've never been thouroughly convinced that a sub could do more than offer the earth shaking boom heard on occasion during a movie, and I'm not sure how good of quality bass would come from it when listening to some greatly produced music. NOT that I'm against seeing (er em hearing) to believe, but the jury is still out. HMMM I could be an ideal beta tester though

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#34522 - 11/16/03 07:28 AM Re: Why a subwoofer?
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
I went without a sub for a very long time, relying on my Paradigm Studio/60's to handle the bass. Eventually, I added a sub for a couple of reasons. First, without adding an ICBM to the mix, there was a lot of material on DVD-Audio discs that was being lost -- the DVD-A side of Blue Man Group's "Audio" album just didn't sound right compared to the DTS side, for example, because the LFE track was lost (my DVD-A player, like so many others, lacks any real bass management, and even the 950's multichannel analog bass management still needs a sub to be present). Second, I knew that there was some material on movie soundtracks that was well below the range of my Studio/60's. I added an SVS 25-31 PCi (which appears to be pretty similar to the LFM-1, based on specs) over a year ago, and was immediately glad that I did. It does add to the movie experience, and it really made a difference on DVD-Audio discs for me as well.

Based on the info we've seen so far, a $150 discount on the LFM-1 would make it an awesome deal for Raider. For that matter, at a regular price only $30 higher than my 25-31PCi currently sells for (and $20 lower than the SVS PB1-ISD or upcoming Hsu STF-3), the LFM-1 looks like it has a great deal of potential for anybody who is sub shopping.

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#34523 - 11/16/03 08:18 AM Re: Why a subwoofer?
Raider Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 11/30/02
Posts: 105
Loc: Cleveland, TN
Gonk, are you saying that I am losing some bass on my 950 when listening to DVD audio even when I have the the Bass management control switch in the off position? In the off position I thought full bass was delivered to the speakers.
Wow; apparently there is some more sound to go after. Sounds like a sub is worth the price. If I do add a sub would I still leave my fronts on large or move them to small? Or a better question is how do I set up the 950 with a sub when I have full range mains?

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#34524 - 11/16/03 08:57 AM Re: Why a subwoofer?
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
Raider -- keep in mind that your DVD-Audio player probably lacks any bass management of its own, so there is no way for it to redirect the .1 channel from a DVD-A disc into the left and right channels -- that LFE channel is passed directly down the line of LFE inputs and outputs until it reaches the 950's output and disappears forever. The 950's analog bass management can redirect signals from the full range channels over to a subwoofer, but there is no way for it to redirect the LFE signal away from the sub. How much is lost depends on the mix (some DVD-A discs don't even use the .1 channel, I believe, and others use it very sparingly, but there is something there on most discs that is lost without a sub).

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review
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HT Basics | HDMI FAQ | Pics | Remote Files | Art Show
Reviews: Index | 990 | speakers | BDP-93

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#34525 - 11/17/03 04:19 AM Re: Why a subwoofer?
RayBan Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 50
Loc: Oak Lawn
Quote:
Originally posted by Raider:
If I do add a sub would I still leave my fronts on large or move them to small? Or a better question is how do I set up the 950 with a sub when I have full range mains?

I think the best way to do it would be to set your Xovers based on the range your mains can handle.

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#34526 - 11/17/03 05:29 AM Re: Why a subwoofer?
Nostalgia Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 137
Loc: Lake Hopatcong, NJ 07849
Right. I think a general rule of thumb is to set your crossover 1/2 - 1 octave higher than your speaker's F3 - the point at which your speaker's output is 3db down.

If you're not familiar with F3, or your speaker manuf does not provide it, you should use whatever they tell you is the lowest frequency the speaker is capable of. So, if your speaker is alleged to play down to 28hz, you might set your xover at 40hz (1/2 octave) or 60hz (full octave).

This will help prevent the natural roll-off of your speaker compounding with the electronic roll-off of your crossover, and making a general mess.

-Joe

[This message has been edited by Nostalgia (edited November 17, 2003).]
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