I'm currently putting together a system for music (60%) and HT (40%). I'm in love with Totem Hawk speakers, which I'm told are picky about amps. I wonder if anyone on this forum is running Totem speakers with them and what they think of the combination. Some comments about Outlaw amps being very "analytical" and not "warm" have me a little cautious. I like clarity and detail but listen to a lot of classical music and atmosphere is important. Also, am I diminishing the 2-speaker listening in any way with an AV pre/pro? Thanks.

harbinger:

I have 950 and 7100 combo and I too use my audio gear more for music (classical & jazz) than home theater. For that purpose, I’d recommend adding tube gears, especially from these folks www.decware.com They have some good reading material too. I’ve just got a pair of their mono-block s.e.t. tube amps (run thru 950) and I’ve been impressed so far even when it’s not fully burnt-in yet.

If the budget is an issue, you can substitute 950 & 7100 combo with Outlaw 1050 for HT instead.

Harbinger:

I guess my first question to you is what type of 2ch gear do you listen to for music now? If you are someone who has a nice tube system for your classical music already then I don’t think you’ll like the 950/7100 combo. However if you have always listened to your music on solid state equipment then you’ll have to spend a good deal more money to get better sound than what is offered here by Outlaw. It is very hard to build a pre/pro that can compete with a dedicated 2ch preamp but I think Outlaw has done a great job with the 950. You also have the 30 day return so give them a try. I don’t think you’ll be disappointed. Just my .02 Hope this helps

Lasher


[This message has been edited by Lasher (edited March 25, 2004).]

Why is it very hard to build a pre/pro that can compete with a dedicated 2ch preamp? I see this postulated on this and other forums, but no one has explained why. I understand some wanting the "tube sound", but you did not make that a caveat when referring to the very hard.

First of let me start by saying that I don’t design this type of equipment and am far from being an expert so I can’t give you a technical reason why it should be so much harder.

With that said I would have to say (read semi-educated guess) it is because a modern pre/pro has so many other things it has to do (and do well) compared to a 2ch preamp. The best thing (IMHO) that a good preamp can do is get out of the way of the music. That is why I think the Outlaw 950 does such a great job. It has that wonderful Bypass button that turns it into basically a volume control for your amp and “Bypasses” everything else. If you do choose to let the 950 in on the decoding task the DAC’s are top notch as well.

I like the sound of Tube gear myself but I don’t like it that much more (nor do I have the room) to build a dedicated 2ch music system. Like I said this is just my take on things and should be taken with a grain of salt

Lasher

Thanks for your response. I think along your way. I knew of no electronic reason for 2ch not being excellent in a pre/pro. I think it kindly gets over looked with multi- channel getting the greatest share of design effort. I am also happy to hear you enjoy the 2ch capabilities of the 950.

As far as I know, 950’s bypass mode also has the signals pass through crossover for “sub out” in addition to volume control. It’s a big bonus for the majority of consumers because not many own truly full range speakers.

Spiker, thanks for the decware link. I've taken a quick look and will study further.

Lasher, in answer to your question (what type of 2ch gear I have at present); my amp/pre-amp are solid state (SAE 2200/2900 circa 1976 or so) and I've never owned a tube amp. On the other hand my existing system was inherited, has never really reflected my taste, and now that the kids are growing up & I have time for serious listening I want to put a system together that I will want to spend lots of time inside.

Does it boil down to a choice between solid state or tube, though? There is a wide range in character of different solid-state amps, no?

(The problem with the 30 day return is I'm in Canada so I don't want to go through the brokerage hassle unless I'm sure.)

Thanks again...

Spiker:

I thought when I worked through more of the Decware site I would understand your advice, but now I'm more confused.

Am I correct in understanding that to work with the SET tube amps I'd have to get a speaker set with a sensitivity over 90db? (Rules out the Totems.) I am attracted by the clarity and 3d imaging attributed to the tube amps (& find tubes quite beautiful too) but am baffled by almost everything on the Decware site. Obviously this is because I am ignorant of the whole (somewhat hermetic) field. If you (or anyone) can point me in a direction to get educated, I'll be grateful.

harbinger:

Its not the easiest website to surf but the value of information there outweighs the inconvenience. In the spec portion of each amp shows the recommended efficiency of speakers. Minimum is 86 db and ideal is lower 90s. Then there’s the maximum as well. My main speakers are at 89 db and I have no problem at all. It started to clip when the volume was at uncomfortably high level. For classical and jazz, the volume shouldn’t be at head banging level anyway. I’m sure you can get it to be with more efficient speakers.

I really like my Zen amps so far. Now I understand the term holographic soundstage. I’d recommend Decware gear for the value they carry. Just like Outlaw Audio products.

Spiker:

I was referring to the 2ch bypass mode not the 5.1 Bypass. The 5.1 uses the Bass management to redirect Bass to the subwoofer. I don’t think the 2ch bypass does this, at least on my system it does not seem to.

Harbinger:

As far as there being a wide range in sound from solid state amps I don’t believe that most amps (at least high quality ones) are that much different nor do they have that much effect on the flavor of the sound. Most good (solid state) amps just amplify the signal sent to them and should not change the sound in any way. The biggest noticeable difference in sound should be from one pre/pro to another or one set of speakers to another not one amp to another.

I did not know you were in Canada so I can see that concern. I will say this. If you are using an old solid state receiver from 1976 than you should be thrilled with the Outlaw combo. I doubt anything from that era could even come close to this kind of performance. Even now with the 950 being 2 years old I have seen(or I should say heard) nothing in this price range that can give you better sound(and more of the features you really need) than the Outlaw 950 and that’s where it really counts(the sound) right?

Hope this helps

Lasher

In 950’s speaker configuration menu, if main speakers are set to small, it will send all signals below crossover point (40, 60, 80, 100 or 120 Hz) to “sub out” even if you are in 2 channel bypass mode. Unless Outlaw decided to ship a special unit only to me...

That is strange????? On my system my mains are set to small, crossover at 40 and when I hit 2ch bypass I get nothing from my subs just from my 2 mains. I've only had my 950/7100 combo for a short time so it might have a problem I was not aware of. Where is your crossover set?

Lasher

Well I just rechecked my system and found out I was mistaken. It seems that when the 950 is in 2ch Bypass and the speakers are set to small it does send a signal to my subs. It does however bypass the trim setting for the subwoofer (I have mine set at +7db) so I was getting alot less Bass from my subwoofers than I was used to hearing and that is what caused my mistake. Thanks for the info Spiker I am now going to reduce the +7db trim setting and turn up the Gain on my subs for a more even responce. It's always good to learn somthing new every day

Thanks Again
Lasher

No problem Lasher.
I’ve learned many things from here myself. Good thing there are chat rooms like this.

[This message has been edited by Spiker (edited March 27, 2004).]