Bughunter,

As most people know, I rarely surface in the saloon. However, I have been reading your posts for the last few weeks and to say the least, I am astounded by your comments.

Let me begin by saying that I know a lot about NAD. I actually started the company here in the US and ran it for thirteen years. During my tenure, I was responsible for overseeing the development of over 120 products, including integrated amplifiers,preamps, power amps, receivers, tuners, and a few cassette decks and cd players thrown in for good measure. The C72020BEE (Named for my friend and colleague Bjorn Erik Edvardson) is indeed a fine unit, as is all of the NAD gear. NAD is truly a great company.

Those of us alumni who were at NAD in those early days embraced a certain philosophy about product design, especially amplifiers-conservatively rating power, ample headroom, the ability to drive low impedance loads without current limiting and many other elements of good solid engineering. We have all carried on these design to the other companies we work for.

For the record, I can now tell you that in the development of the 2150 there were, including myself, four NAD alumni involved in the development, testing, and validation of all the circuits.

We know what the 2150 is capable of and we are here to say that it is under-specked, period. The power easily SURPASSES 100 watts into 8 ohms and delivers substantially more power into 4 ohms and lower. If you doubt that, please refer to the latest issue of Home Theater Magazine for their own measurements. They will verify everything I have just stated. Your claim about the 50 watt NAD having more power has no basis in fact-- only in your opinion. Also, your comments about low subwoofer output are not consistent with anything we have seen on ANY 2150.

On our side, we are more than willing to take a look at your 2150 to determine if something is defective or has failed, and you are aware of that.


You have complained about this product in several posts, obviously expressing your great disappointment. Yet within your evaluation period, (which is still active), you have chosen not to return the unit. Your decision, to say the least, is puzzling to us.


However, without our taking a look at your unit to see if anything is wrong, please do not insult our intelligence and that of multitudes of very happy customers (and several well known reviewers) by making claims that are wrong and misleading. If you doubt what we say, please visit your favorite local dealer and ask him to put your 2150 on the test bench. Ask him to test it at 8 ohms, 4 ohms and even 2 ohms. Also, please ask him to measure the voltage-out on the subwoofer jack. Then please ask the dealer to call Scott directly on our toll free number with the test results.

If you prefer the sound of the NAD, we have no problem with your opinion. That is what makes this industry so interesting. That notwithstanding, your claims on inadequate power or low subwoofer output have no merit until verified by us or a qualified technician.

Sincerely yours,
Peter Tribeman
President,
Outlaw Audio

Where is my R2150 Peter?

Thank You,

This kind of moment is what I hang out on forums to experience. That last exchange was probably the best I have seen on any forum.

Peter, Well I guess I have to take your word about being involved with NAD in the past and if in fact it's true you've lost your touch because the Outlaw is no threat to any NAD product. The Outlaw that I received was in no way more powerful or had a better sub output than the NAD C720BEE and I don't care what you say! I would say that most of the people on this forum don't have the equiptment, time or knowledge to measure our hi fi gear. You seem to forget that we as consumers rely on our hearing and not your specs when we listen. I know what I heard from my Outlaw as well as two others and they all sounded the same, weak sub output and a simple 100 watts perchannel. You for some reason think you guys at Outlaw Audio have come up with some special never done before 2 channel receiver. Far from it... For $600.00 you can buy a 100 watt per channel receiver anywhere and most for alot less. Direct mail order only, why don't you have dealers? If this product is so amazing I'm sure people would pay more wouldn't they? I mean you can buy most any 100 watt receiver from a dealer for less take it home listen for 30 days and take it back if you are unhappy instead of shipping it back and waiting for a refund. I now have the Outlaw back, I gave it to my son and he ended up giving it back. I have since boxed it up and I'm thinking of putting it on Ebay but somehow I feel whoever buys it won't be happy either and they will probally want there money back. I see more and more of them showing up on Ebay, Audiogon and Audioweb. I guess that means not everybody is as fond of them as you. By the way, never talk down to your customers, It could come back and bite you in the ass...

Peter said it is still within the trial period, send it back, and move on.
As much as you say you dislike it, it seems like a no brainer, but after folowing this entire thread it seems you have an agenda.

No agenda at all, simply my opinion which I can see is not allowed here. I did just as Peter asked, I contacted two local Hi End dealers who both sell NAD. I asked if I could bring the Outlaw in and compare it side by side with the NAD C720BEE and asked if he would bench test it. He laughed and hung up. The second NAD dealer said simply to tell Outlaw they are a bricks and mortar store and they have no interest in testing any direct order hi fi gear. He said if Outlaw was a real company they would have dealers that sold other products to compare them with side by side. I have to say I agree as you have no idea what you are getting until it arrives and then you have 30 days which to return it which is far more of a pain then to load it in the car and return it and have something else the same day. It's nice to be able to go into a store and look at and handle the item before you purchase but more and more companies are eliminating the middleman to sell direct. And I for one do not believe the Outlaw 2150 is worth more then the asking price of $600.00. We will see how many of the dedicated Outlaw listeners unload the 2150 when more of them start having flickering lights, weak sub outlets, problems with the volume control, power on buttons that are hard to push on, noisey usb connections and so on. A great receiver to say the least!

It's this sort of attitude that has put companies like Outlaw, SVS, Axiom, Aperion, OPPO Digital, HSU Research, AV123, and other Internet-direct outfits on the map - and seen more and more brick and mortar shops closing up shop. Those are all real companies with real products. In contrast, the local Paradigm dealer in my area has now closed - due probably in large part to the fact that the only way to hear many of the products they "carried" was to ask them to order them for you. I know two people who were (and in at least one case is still) interested in Paradigm Studio speakers but could only hear them in my home because the Paradigm dealer never had any in stock and had no intention of ordering any to keep on hand for demos or impulse sales. I also know a co-worker who bought ~$2500 or $3000 in Rotel electronics (at list price) from a major brick and mortar dealer in town and couldn't even get a simple question answered because he wasn't paying $100/hour for custom install and setup. Contrast both of those to companies like Outlaw, where you can order something and try it for 30 days and where you can pick up the phone or keyboard and get extensive setup help from the company.

Google is your friend ...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bughunter:
[QB] No agenda at all, simply my opinion which I can see is not allowed here.

No, just the opposite, it is allowed, it is on the second page of you posting you disapproval, which is fine, but if you dislike it, send it back for a refund.
Isn't it more of a hassle to sell it on ebay than to return it? not to mention you are trying to sell something that may or may not have a defect to some unsuspecting buyer? let Outlaw test the unit, if it is defective they will replace it or give your money back, if nothing is wrong with it, someone can buy it B stock at a discount.
Forgive me, but I am just not following your logic.

Well we have two other opinions on the topic of direcet order items. I don't know where you live or who you deal with but I'm in central Florida where there are many high end Stereo/HT dealers that have everything in stock and if they don't it will be there within a few days for me to audition. I own a oppo 970 and I ordered it direct but they also have dealers. My problem is I really like to see the item in person, feel the controls, hear how it sounds before I get it home even though it will probally sound a little different in my room I have a good idea of what I'm buying. Looking at a picture and reading specs tells you nothing! It may look good on paper but sound like crap and you all know that's true. If I would have been able to see the Outlaw in person and played around with it and heard it I would not have purchased it. I guess my main bitch is I waited over 5 months and I think that sending it back is a joke. I don't need the $600.00 and I may find someone to bench test it so I can really have some news. The reason I say that is two other people I know have the same receiver and they are no different from mine. They don't use subwoofers so that's not a big deal to them. The one uses it for the Phono stage and he says it's as good as the older receivers he's owned in the past that had MM/MC options but no better. Also both state that the power is a basic 100 watts per channel. We are talking like this is a serious piece of audio equiptment when it's nothing more than a mass produced chinese made mid fi stereo am/fm receiver with a USB port! Until you get up into Krell, Audio Research, Musical Fidelity, Cary and so on we are dealing with low to mid fi mass produced stuff, some of which gives alot of band for the buck. Like I said before, I expect to get crap from pretty much everyone here as it is Outlaws site... Remember this is the United States and I can still express my opinion even if the President of Outlaw doesn't like me. Peace.