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#29512 - 06/13/05 01:41 AM Re: Another 770 vs 7100 request
silversport Offline
Desperado

Registered: 12/27/04
Posts: 326
Loc: ChicagoLand/USA
I did ask this question when I bought mine (it seemed important then) as I looked at the 7100 and the 755 and 770 but I will be interested to hear if they say anything different...interesting read by the way...
Bill
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Outlaw 1070***3 Klipsch Heresys Across the Front W/Crites CT-125 Tweeters***Klipsch KSP-S6***Oppo BDP-83***Outlaw LFM-1 Plus***
Panasonic SA-XR 57***Klipsch RB-5s***Klipsch RC-3***Outlaw Audio M8***

...Let the Movies and Music Play...

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#29513 - 06/13/05 07:18 AM Re: Another 770 vs 7100 request
ratpack Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 110
Loc: Alabama
Bill: OK, let's wait and see what they tell me. I'll post my question and what they say.

I look forward to both of our answers.

Thanks.
_________________________
The Rat.

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#29514 - 06/13/05 09:33 AM Re: Another 770 vs 7100 request
silversport Offline
Desperado

Registered: 12/27/04
Posts: 326
Loc: ChicagoLand/USA
Ratpack:
Excellent...
Bill
_________________________
Outlaw 1070***3 Klipsch Heresys Across the Front W/Crites CT-125 Tweeters***Klipsch KSP-S6***Oppo BDP-83***Outlaw LFM-1 Plus***
Panasonic SA-XR 57***Klipsch RB-5s***Klipsch RC-3***Outlaw Audio M8***

...Let the Movies and Music Play...

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#29515 - 06/13/05 08:07 PM Re: Another 770 vs 7100 request
ratpack Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 110
Loc: Alabama
Here is a copy of the questions that I sent Outlaw technical support this morning. I have not yet received a response.

"I have been involved in a very interesting message board discussion about
the ratings of separate amplifiers. The specification of the 7100 cites an
FTC rating. It is my understanding that many audio receiver manufacturers
use the FTC standard as justification for rating/ testing only 2 channels
simultaneously, even though their receivers may have 5 or more channels.

I would like to ask 2 questions.

First, for the 7100, how many channels are rated at 100 watts
simultaneously and simultaneously for what period of time?

Second, for your 770 amplifier, you specify simultaneous RMS power for all
7 channels. There is a perception that since the 7100 is specified with
FTC and the 770 is specified with RMS that there is implied more difference
than just going from 100 to 200 watts. Could you explain why the 2 amps
are specified differently?

A clear explanation would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!"
_________________________
The Rat.

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#29516 - 06/14/05 06:07 PM Re: Another 770 vs 7100 request
JimInColorado Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 06/10/05
Posts: 9
Loc: Castle Rock, CO
The specs for the 7100 list the damping factor as 400. The specs for the 770 list its damping factor as 850. I've been told the damping factor is a measure of how well the amp controls cone movement. Is that true? Does anyone know if a change from 400 to 850 is audible? Is this a valuable spec?

I'm curious as to whether the 770 would sound better than the 7100 at normal listening levels (not ear-bleed levels). 400 vs 850 sounds significant, except that it is possible to have a THD of .00001% and one of .000001% and never hear the difference.

Any thoughts on the damping factor specs?

Any thoughts on the 7100 vs 770 at normal listening levels?
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Outlaw 990
Outlaw 7125
B&W 703s, HTM7, DS7s, DS6s
Velodyne DPS 1200
Sony 60" LCD Grand Wega

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#29517 - 06/15/05 07:35 AM Re: Another 770 vs 7100 request
ratpack Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 110
Loc: Alabama
Jim: if you do a web search on damping factor, I think that one of the basic definitions that you will find is load impedance (speaker) divided by source impedance (amplifier). I think that it is just another confusion factor that manufacturers use. I think that the following article describes it fairly well.

damping
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The Rat.

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#29518 - 06/15/05 02:56 PM Re: Another 770 vs 7100 request
JimInColorado Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 06/10/05
Posts: 9
Loc: Castle Rock, CO
That is an excellent web site! Interesting that too high of a damping factor can cause negative feedback. The damping factor of the 7100 is 400; the 770 is 850. Other than watts/channel, that seems to be the one spec that is different. So is 850 better than 400? Apparently, it depends.

A 770 went for $1475 on eBay last night. I was really interested at $1200, kind of interested at $1300, but then lost interest. I think I'm going with a 7100. I don't think I need 200wpc.

I was particularly struck by this quote on that web site: "I can guarantee you one thing: There are an awful lot of people out there spending money on specs they will never be able to hear as differences in the music in a million years. Just don't expect them to ever admit it. I have to really work not to laugh my head off when someone tells me they spent several hundred dollars - or even over a thousand - on speaker cables and they "sound better" than a nice heavy gauge twisted pair of stranded copper wires they could have had for about five bucks... "

The sales guy I'm talking to about a TV and speakers is really pushing me to buy exotic speaker wire. I auditioned speaker wire and interconnects about 10 years ago. I did a double-blind test with both. I heard a difference in interconnects - very slight, very subtle, but very consistent. I never heard any difference in speaker wire. It was only the $15/foot stuff, nothing really exotic, but I could not detect a difference between that stuff and lamp cord.

So I think I'll get the B&Ws, Outlaw 990/7100, some decent interconnects, and basic speaker wire.
_________________________
Outlaw 990
Outlaw 7125
B&W 703s, HTM7, DS7s, DS6s
Velodyne DPS 1200
Sony 60" LCD Grand Wega

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#29519 - 06/15/05 03:19 PM Re: Another 770 vs 7100 request
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
That sounds like a really good plan, Jim. A coworker of mine has B&W 805's (smaller than the 703's you're looking at, but also 2dB less efficient and run full range since he has no sub) that he drives with a 120W Rotel amp very successfully. I think the 7100 will serve you well.
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gonk
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Reviews: Index | 990 | speakers | BDP-93

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#29520 - 06/15/05 10:31 PM Re: Another 770 vs 7100 request
ratpack Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 110
Loc: Alabama
Well folks, I still DO NOT have an answer to my questions from Outlaw technical support.

I'll give it another couple of days, they could be very busy doing other things.

Jim: anyone who tells you that speaker wires are not fully characterized by their RLC parameters, JUST DOESN'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT!!

You have a good plan!
_________________________
The Rat.

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#29521 - 06/16/05 12:08 AM Re: Another 770 vs 7100 request
silversport Offline
Desperado

Registered: 12/27/04
Posts: 326
Loc: ChicagoLand/USA
curiouser and curiouser, Alice... smile
Bill
_________________________
Outlaw 1070***3 Klipsch Heresys Across the Front W/Crites CT-125 Tweeters***Klipsch KSP-S6***Oppo BDP-83***Outlaw LFM-1 Plus***
Panasonic SA-XR 57***Klipsch RB-5s***Klipsch RC-3***Outlaw Audio M8***

...Let the Movies and Music Play...

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