I will be purchasing my first separate amplifier or amplifiers in the next few of months and wanted to go ahead and start gathering info and opinions now.

My question has to do with the quality of Outlaw compared to other manufacturers. From what I have read it seems that B&K, Sunfire, ect... are considered by most to be the premier separates for HT.

How does Outlaw compare to these higher priced amps? What do they offer that Outlaw does not?

From my experience I have learned that more times than not, when you purchase anything high-end, a large percentage of the price tag is attributed to the name brand as apposed to true performance and quality improvements.

Is that the case when comparing Outlaw to other higher priced components? If cost was removed from the equation, would you still use Outlaw separates over other brands?

I know that I have thrown out some broad quetions but I have found these forums very helpful in gathering info and assisting in decision making. Please include any additional comments you consider helpful and thank you in advance.

Buy Outlaw - save a bundle. Solid state power amps have got to be the one component where any given amp is most likely to sound identical or nearly identical to any other. You can almost break it down to a dollars / Watt buying decision. Spend the money saved on good transducers (where there is the most difference between components) or gear with all of those extra (and more expensive) features that you've always wanted. (But then again, the Model 950 also destroys the myth that you need to spend big bucks to get a great set of features, in a top-performing package.) Better yet, spend the difference on source material and sit back and listen to it through a great-sounding and value-priced Outlaw amp.

(No I was not in any way shape or form induced to write this post on behalf of Outlaw!)

Jeff Mackwood

What Jeff said. :-D

Before I purchased my Outlaw equipment, I read many reviews. In fact, it was while researching another brand that I first learned of Outlaw. I was reading a “shootout” article featuring three multi-channel amplifiers, including an Outlaw. In almost every case where the reviewer(s) have a philosophy that allows for the possibility that excellence can be found in a piece of equipment even if its purchase price doesn’t approach or cross into the five-figure range, Outlaw always compares favorably to equipment costing more, often much more. Reviews of amplifiers where there is genuine solid performance seemingly always boil down to performance numbers, nuance and reviewers’ preferences. Outlaw had the performance; I wasn’t going to pay an extra $1K, $2K, or more for processor and amplifier nuance! Note my user name? After all, I had other components to purchase where those dollars would be of greater benefit.

Still not convinced? Likely you are going to have to do what the reviewers do: compare. It might cost you a few bucks shipping or an errand to take back the amplifier you don’t keep – just chock it up as “tuition” for a learning experience. Pick one of the Outlaw amps and one of another brand with similar power you would genuinely consider purchasing. Run an A/B test in your system. (Why in your system? If the choice boils down to nuance and preference, the test better be with the other equipment your going to “live with” after your amplifier purchase.) Just make sure to use an SPL meter so that the acoustic volume in the room ends up being the same for each amp. Also, if I were doing this test and were operating subwoofer(s) separately from the speakers powered by the amps being compared, I would do the most of the comparison without the sub(s) operating. That way there is no need to adjust full-range-to-subwoofer level ratios if the amps being compared have even slightly a different overall amount of gain compared to each other or to your original amplifier section, and there will be no low frequency masking of what is happening in the rest of your system. Once you have done as much as you can without the sub(s) operating, you might go through the effort to match your sub(s) to the system with each amplifier you are considering, but that is so time consuming to do properly that it makes honest A/B comparing difficult. IMO, adding in the sub(s) is more for a final confirmation or “wow” stage of the test.

In any case, I have been thoroughly pleased with the marked difference Outlaw equipment has made to the sound of my system.

I hope you find what you’re looking for!


[This message has been edited by bestbang4thebuck (edited January 25, 2004).]

Thanks for the replies.

Is it always this slow on the forum? Please don't take that the wrong way.

I had a couple of additional questions I would like to get your opinions on.

Is Outlaw considered a high-current amp?

Do Outlaw amplifiers pair well with high-sensitivity speakers and what brand of speakers do you use?

I had always assumed that regardless of what brand of amplifier you use, they are all basically the same. Not until I raised the question on other forums did I find that there were so many different opinions.

I will be adding amplifiers to Klipsch speakers. I have been told that because these are so sensitive, the type of amplification you use is very important. What are your thoughts?

A side-by-side comparison is a good suggestion, I will probably do that further down the road. In the interem I would like to gather as much info and opinions as possible. Thanks again.

Speakers that are of very high sensitivity sound best when used with tube amplifiers. Outlaw unfortunately does not make tube amplifiers. They should remedy this gross oversight as soon as possible.

I have seen threads on other forums where users of Klipsh speakers will bi-amp and use tubes for the high end and solid state for the mid and low end. A 5W tube amp was in one setup I read and produced enough SPL to make hurt the ear, all because the sensitivity of the horn speaker was something like 103 if I recall. You might try this set-up if your budget allows. Do some searches of the net and you should be able to find the posts/reviews.

I use a 5 watt SET tube amp in my setup for the high frequency horn that has 106db/watt sensitivity. However I use a 50 watt ultra-linear tube amp for the woofer. My active crossover is at 500Hz. With even one watt, 106 db above 500Hz is extremely loud!

I have Klipsch speakers all around except for sub which is velodyne. I currently have B&K power amps connected to my Outlaw 950. I previously had Parasound amp as well. It is my own personal opinion that my Klpisch speakers sound better with a warmer sounding amp. BTW, I have no experience with Outlaw amps and can offer no opinion on their sound quality.

Thanks for the replies.


I have the Reference line and I would like to avoid bi-amping. It was my understanding that the tube amps are mainly used with Heritage. Can anyone suggest some brands of amps to consider that are in a more reasonable price bracket?


JAMMINNJC,

Which Klipsch are you using?

Which B&K amps?

Are there any other amps you have heard with Klipsch that you would consider warm sounding?

Thanks.

Tube amps are used with any speaker where their characteristics can be put to best use. This is can be any efficient speaker, regardless of brand or model.

If it is desired to have a "warm" sounding amplifier, tubes will do it. Solid state amplifiers sometimes compare their sound to that of tubes, but the only way to actually get the sound of a tube amp is with an actual tube amp, at least with what is commercially available to the consumer.

I have Klipsch KLF 30's for the main L/R, RC3II for center and SB2's for the surrounds. I have B&K Ref 2220 for the main L/R and B&K 3140 for center and surrounds. A budy of mine has Klipsch ref series all the way around with Parasound ampage and it sounds quite good as well. I also read on Klipsch forums that Rotel amps mate well with Klipsch. But I have to agree with Soundhound that tubes are the ultimate in warm sound, as my guitar amp is all tube design and the sound is really smooth.

Are there any companies that make tube amps for HT that don't cost a fortune?

There are no companies that make tube amplifiers specifically for Home Theater period.

Jolida makes some relatively inexpensive ones for general use, but generally speaking they cost more because their manufacture involves component parts that are difficult and expensive to make, such as the output transformer.

If you have relatively efficient speakers, you do not need any more power than about 35-50 watts of power from a tube amplifier. There are a number of tube amps that fall into this category that don't cost a fortune. Whether these fall into your budget range is another matter.

[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited January 30, 2004).]

Antique Sound Labs makes some cheaper tube amps.

www.divertech.com

Decaware is also a popular brand for less expensive tube gear.

SH usually recommends Jolida who also receives some very good reviews from around the web.

As with any of the above, it's usually about how they integrate with the rest of your system. The right amp with the wrongs speakers isn't going to sound that good no matter the price. Also, note that most of the inexpensive tube gear has some DIY experience applied.

Good luck!

If you feel that there is a similarity between the Outlaw Amps and those made by ATI, well, it's more than just a similarity.
Morris Kessler at ATI makes most, if not all the Outlaw amps.
However, I think the Outlaw product is by far the better value.
I plan on getting the 950/770 Combo and more in about 2 months.

do you really want to get into tube amps for ht? probably not, hence the fact that most tube amp manufacturers design their products for stereo, where the distortion that the tubes add can best be appreciated to achieve the sound that you like. i have not run across any amp that would be as good as an outlaw for cost vs quality. i think monoblocks for each channel is the way to go, and i would like to see outlaw incorporate a monoblock for each channel multi-channel power amp.

1) Properly functioning tube amps do not generate audible distrotion when used within their power ratings. Their characteristic sound quality actually has very little to do with the quantity of distrotion produced.

2) Tube amps are not designed "for stereo" or any particular number of channels. Many current tube amps are monoblocks.

3) Assuming speakers with efficiencies of around 90db/watt or better, tubes make excellent amps for HT use.

There is a reason that you see manufacturers of solid state amps comparing the sound of their amps to tubes, but you will never see "this amp caputres the sound of solid state!"


[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited February 18, 2004).]