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#28703 - 07/05/08 10:18 AM Re: Subs
Marty Fredericks Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 03/02/08
Posts: 28
Loc: US Virgin Islands
Thanks for your input...I'll letcha know the results when I have 'em!

:^)

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#28704 - 08/23/08 05:25 PM Re: Subs
Marty Fredericks Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 03/02/08
Posts: 28
Loc: US Virgin Islands
OK, Gonk, here's the latest...I have relocated the Velodyne sub to my bedroom system, so I only have the 3 built-in, powered subs in my 3 front DefTech's, set to "Large", and for my side surrounds, I have speaker wire running into one Polk PSW10, then out to a pair of DefTech BP2X. For rear surrounds, I have another Polk PSW10 going speaker-level In and again, Out to BP2X's in the rear. In 7 Stereo, I can really rock....In DTS/Dolby for movies, it seems to be doing the trick, with the proper bass from each channel as appropriate....here's the new issue....I'm gonna pick up a DefTech Supercube Reference...I still have nothing hooked up to the LFE Out, due to better sound running all my speakers "Large"...how in the hell am I gonna integrate the SC Reference?? If I use the LFE Out, it's only going to be working when there is a x.1 source, right? I want it to get signal all the time, regardless of the input source...can I run it from the "Tape Out"? Then it would get every bass signal from whatever source I am playing, right? And the individual speakers, all set to "Large" would also get every signal they deserve, based on what's playing, right? I want the Reference to be active all the time (these things are incredible subs for the money!) and I want my individual speakers to all have full range signals all the time, again, regardless of input source. Correct me if I'm wrong, but by connecting the Reference via LFE Out, that would only enable it to receive a signal when I am playing something with a x.1 source, correct? But, if I use the Tape Out, won't it then get a full range, full bandwidth signal, and it's internal crossover can do it's intended job. What do you think?

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#28705 - 08/23/08 07:48 PM Re: Subs
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
First, don't use the tape out. There are several reasons not to even consider it.

Now, on to the other options. Connect the Super Cube to the 950's sub output and set the subwoofer channel to "on" - this will send LFE channel data (the ".1" in "5.1") to the sub.

I'm going to make one other recommendation, although you may not like it: set the side and back surrounds to "small." If you leave the two Polk subs back there, use either a 40Hz or 60Hz crossover point. I suggest this because the rated low frequency extension for those two is only 35Hz. When you use the 7 Stereo mode, you may at times steer audio below that 35Hz point into the surround channels. It's less likely to happen with 5.1 mixes, but even then it is possible.
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#28706 - 08/24/08 10:06 PM Re: Subs
Marty Fredericks Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 03/02/08
Posts: 28
Loc: US Virgin Islands
Quote:
Originally posted by gonk:
First, don't use the tape out. There are several reasons not to even consider it.
WHAT MIGHT THOSE BE?

Now, on to the other options. Connect the Super Cube to the 950's sub output and set the subwoofer channel to "on" - this will send LFE channel data (the ".1" in "5.1") to the sub.
BUT WHAT ABOUT WHEN I AM LISTENING TO MUSIC IN 7 STEREO?? THE SUB WILL THEN BE IDLE, WON'T IT?

I'm going to make one other recommendation, although you may not like it: set the side and back surrounds to "small." If you leave the two Polk subs back there, use either a 40Hz or 60Hz crossover point. I suggest this because the rated low frequency extension for those two is only 35Hz. When you use the 7 Stereo mode, you may at times steer audio below that 35Hz point into the surround channels. It's less likely to happen with 5.1 mixes, but even then it is possible. HOW? AND, IF I DO THAT, ISN'T THE 950 GOING TO LIMIT THE SIGNAL TO ONLY 40hz AND ABOVE FOR THOSE CHANNELS? HOW WOULD THEY BE GETTING ANY SIGNAL BELOW THAT? ISN'T THAT WHAT THE CROSSOVER POINT DOES? BASICALLY JUST FILTER OUT ANYTHING BELOW 40hz AND SEND EVERYTHING ABOVE 40 TO THOSE SPEAKERS? HOW IS IT GOING TO STEER ANYTHING LOWER TO THOSE CHANNELS IF THE CROSSOVER POINT IS SET AT 40hz?

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#28707 - 08/24/08 10:44 PM Re: Subs
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
Quote:
WHAT MIGHT THOSE BE?
I'll offer a short list.
  • The tape output is a purely analog device (similar to the second zone), so it only works with an analog stereo input. Any digital audio inputs will be unavailable. That means that when you're using any source connected with a digital audio cable, the tape output is effectively dead.
  • The tape output is line level all the time, so volume level (with those analog sources that work at all) will be nonexistent. Thus, no way to properly calibrate and integrate the sub into the system.

These don't include the simple fact that the 950 is a product of the 21st century, with bass management capabilities that allow us to integrate a subwoofer without having to resort to this degree of "creativity."
Quote:
BUT WHAT ABOUT WHEN I AM LISTENING TO MUSIC IN 7 STEREO?? THE SUB WILL THEN BE IDLE, WON'T IT?
That's right - but that's what happens when you tell the processor that all of your channels are "large." The processor trusts that you don't need the sub in those cases. Our goal is to reproduce sound in as accurate and balanced a manner as possible, which doesn't necessarily mean that every single driver in the system is active all the time.

Of course, there's also the next part of our discussion, which can change things somewhat (particularly for 7 Stereo)...
Quote:
HOW? AND, IF I DO THAT, ISN'T THE 950 GOING TO LIMIT THE SIGNAL TO ONLY 40hz AND ABOVE FOR THOSE CHANNELS? HOW WOULD THEY BE GETTING ANY SIGNAL BELOW THAT? ISN'T THAT WHAT THE CROSSOVER POINT DOES? BASICALLY JUST FILTER OUT ANYTHING BELOW 40hz AND SEND EVERYTHING ABOVE 40 TO THOSE SPEAKERS? HOW IS IT GOING TO STEER ANYTHING LOWER TO THOSE CHANNELS IF THE CROSSOVER POINT IS SET AT 40hz?
First, the "how." On the SPEAKER CONFIG page, just set "SURR" to "Small" and select either 40 or 60 for the "SURR XOVER."

Once you do this, the 950 will send a signal to the surrounds (side and back) that roughly starts at the crossover point and goes up from there (I say roughly because the crossover has a curve, it's not a "brick wall") while the signal below that crossover point goes to the sub. And this means that when listening to music in 7 Stereo mode, any material that dips low enough to cross that crossover point would find its way to the subwoofer output. And when choosing between 40Hz or 60Hz for the crossover, I'd lean toward 60Hz. That way, the Polks will be operating in a range they're really comfortable with rather than riding right on the edge of the point where they start trailing off naturally.

If you don't do this (which is what I was concerned about, and the reason I mentioned the possibility of steering audio below 35Hz to the surrounds in 7 Stereo mode), the surrounds and their Polk subs will get a signal that can at times go all the way down to 20Hz or below. The Polks simply can't handle that. That's why I am suggesting using a "small" setting for them.
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#28708 - 08/27/08 01:23 PM Re: Subs
Marty Fredericks Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 03/02/08
Posts: 28
Loc: US Virgin Islands
All good answers...thanks for taking the time...I'l post again once my SuperCube is in my house...may be a while, as they ain't cheap! Haha!

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#28709 - 08/27/08 05:04 PM Re: Subs
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
Since you haven't made the purchase yet, is there a specific reason you're going with the SuperCube? I know they are small, which can be a big help (no pun intended) in placement when dealing with small or crowded rooms, but there are a lot of other subwoofer options out there that could be less expensive and yield comparable performance.
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#28710 - 08/29/08 01:05 PM Re: Subs
Marty Fredericks Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 03/02/08
Posts: 28
Loc: US Virgin Islands
I was also considering the Earthquake SuperNova MKIV-12,which I have found NIB on eBay for only $499, plus shipping....the reviews on that seem to make me lean in that direction, just based on SPL at various frequencies and the cost...a thousand bucks NOT spent on a sub leaves me more to play with my "Upgraditis" is other ares!

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#28711 - 08/30/08 03:31 PM Re: Subs
Marty Fredericks Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 03/02/08
Posts: 28
Loc: US Virgin Islands
Gonk, do you have any recommendations for a sub that would go well with my set-up?

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#28712 - 08/30/08 07:50 PM Re: Subs
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
There are a ton of good sub options out there these days, but a sub with a lot of low-frequency extension (which appears to be what you are looking for in this new sub) is either going to come in a large cabinet or in a smaller cabinet at a (potentially much) higher price. Both the SuperCube and the SuperNova tend to land in the latter category. The price on that Supernova is pretty impressive (about 50% of the list price, according to Earthquake's site), although I don't know what warranty might be offered with it.

I tend to look toward companies like Outlaw, HSU Research (who was involved in the Outlaw subs), or AV123 for good subwoofers at a good value. For example that borrows from our forum host company's product line, a LFM-1 EX that costs $600 will get down to 22Hz, which is on par with the 23Hz extension of the MKIV-12, and can be configured for maximum extension mode (plugging one port) to reach down to 16Hz. It's not an apples-to-apples comparison in a lot of ways (different enclosure designs, for example), but it gives you some idea of what's available. Heck, the LFM-1 Plus (with a $500 price tag) will do down to 18Hz when in max extension mode.

Some of the key factors in picking a sub are room size, available space, listening goals (how much bass do you need), and budget. If the room size is medium to large (say 3000 to 4000 cubic feet) and you have the room for a sub the size of an LFM-1 or similar ported design, you can get something that will go to or below 20Hz without having to pay as much as you would for a small sub like the SuperCube or Supernova.
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