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#27543 - 02/06/05 11:24 AM Re: 5.1 Setup vs. 7.1 Setup
lmHT Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 42
Loc: Columbus, OH
I read a article on Bi-Amping on one of the 770 reviews. The reviwer loved the sound improvements that the bi-amping gave him.

Why are the sounds improved in this case since the amplified signal is the same, isn't it? It is the speaker that will cut it off...

My Paradigm 11seMk3 and Paradigm 11seMk3 are both able to bi-amping...

If I find that a higher wattage amp was ever needed, could it be augmeted by going to a 100W bi-amp configuration?

Also, Keta, how did you do the calculation to get those #'s?

I appreciate everybody giving me all this information... As I always say, information is a good thing...
_________________________
Outlaw (950/755/LFM-1)
Paradigm 11seMk3, CC-300, Titans
Home Theater: Link Coming Soon

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#27544 - 02/06/05 11:26 AM Re: 5.1 Setup vs. 7.1 Setup
lmHT Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 42
Loc: Columbus, OH
11seMk3 and CC-300 speakers...
_________________________
Outlaw (950/755/LFM-1)
Paradigm 11seMk3, CC-300, Titans
Home Theater: Link Coming Soon

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#27545 - 02/06/05 12:19 PM Re: 5.1 Setup vs. 7.1 Setup
Keta Offline
Desperado

Registered: 12/29/02
Posts: 358
Loc: Central VA
An increase of 3db requires a doubling of power.

Klipsch
97db = 1W
100db = 2W
103db = 4W
106db = 8W
109db = 16W
112db = 32W
115db = 64W

NHT
85db = 1W
88db = 2W
91db = 4W
94db = 8W
97db = 16W
100W = 32W
103db = 64W
106db = 128W
109db = 256W
112db = 512W
115db = 1024W

I'm sorry in the previous post I listed the Klipsch incorrectly as needing 64W at 112db, it should have been 32W.

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#27546 - 02/06/05 12:41 PM Re: 5.1 Setup vs. 7.1 Setup
soundhound Offline
Desperado

Registered: 04/10/02
Posts: 1857
Loc: Gusev Crater, Mars
Dolby EX and other 6.1 systems add a lot to the envelopment of the surrounds, even when decoding movies that were originally mixed in straight 5.1. I would go this route if you can swing it.

Bi-amping (passive) is essentially useless as it does not do anything electrically that simply using larger gauge speaker wires would do. If your amplifier has adequate damping factor (the Outlaw amps do) and your speaker wire is large enough (12 gauge or larger), then there is absolutely no benefit for passive bi-amping. Any improvements that I have heard people talk about have mysteriously vanished when they had to listen to the system with a blind comparison between passive bi-amping and with a regular single amp hookup.

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#27547 - 02/06/05 03:19 PM Re: 5.1 Setup vs. 7.1 Setup
lmHT Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 42
Loc: Columbus, OH
Keta,

I new 3dB doubled power and see how you calculated it now.

My speakers have a sensitivity of 92db/89dB (room/anechoic).

What is the difference of room and anechoic?

When comparing speakers and AMP's, what is the DB level that, say a movie theater, would listen at?
_________________________
Outlaw (950/755/LFM-1)
Paradigm 11seMk3, CC-300, Titans
Home Theater: Link Coming Soon

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#27548 - 02/06/05 03:45 PM Re: 5.1 Setup vs. 7.1 Setup
Keta Offline
Desperado

Registered: 12/29/02
Posts: 358
Loc: Central VA
Anechoic means without echo. Your room will have echo which reflects and boosts the sound which is why they list the "room SPL" at 92dB. I believe reference level for watching movies is 85dB for normal dialog. If you watch a movie at those levels it will be VERY loud, probably louder than you would ever listen to a movie. IMHO

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#27549 - 02/06/05 07:14 PM Re: 5.1 Setup vs. 7.1 Setup
painttoad Offline
Desperado

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 688
Loc: peoria il
85 dB for dialog would not be that loud IF it was ALL dialog!i like it loud but i can't imagine maintaining 85 dB at the center,jeez what's happenning during that car wreck,110-115 dB?

hey thanks KETA i never new anechoic meant 'without echo'

ahhhh,the 'echoless chamber' how do i make my basement into one?(actually i just want to keep the house from vibrating itself to an early death from my late night PANTERA(and BUD LIGHT) sessions)

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#27550 - 02/06/05 08:58 PM Re: 5.1 Setup vs. 7.1 Setup
Sound Killer Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 128
There are many ways to achieve high sound pressure level. The equipment’s output level, speaker’s efficiency, speaker’s quantity, and the space of your room, all have impact on measured volume loudness. I can simply install multiple center channels each equipped with a 99db 1W-1meter high efficiency woofer, with 10db gain boost into each channel and measure it in my small bedroom; it will definitely louder than 85db. However, if I move this set-up into another larger bedroom and measure it again, the sound pressure level changes considerably.

Also, there are very few standard practices in studio mixing. People tend to move levels and headroom around to suit the tastes of the particular producer and these preferences often flow through the final product. This is particularly noticeable if you load a rock-n-roll CD and follow it with a classical CD in you’re the CD player. You will find yourself reaching for the gain control, as the differences in digital operating level often exceed 20 dB. Same thing apply to DVD remixing.

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#27551 - 02/06/05 09:28 PM Re: 5.1 Setup vs. 7.1 Setup
painttoad Offline
Desperado

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 688
Loc: peoria il
There are many ways to achieve high sound pressure level.

yeah, lot's of power and sub's!

i'm always reaching for the gain as much as my taste has diversified.but i sure think the industry should set some kind of standard particularly with cd recordings, anyway...
i want my room concrete on 6 sides instead of the existing 3, i just wanna get rid of the buzzes from the 1960's shoddiness!now that i have my monitor sub going again with i think even more power than stock,it gets quite rude down here!

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#27552 - 02/06/05 09:29 PM Re: 5.1 Setup vs. 7.1 Setup
painttoad Offline
Desperado

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 688
Loc: peoria il
soundkiller,i am no stranger to high spl,my s-10 has hit 150+

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