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#24427 - 11/05/03 07:17 AM Analog vs. Digital Bass Management
jordanb69 Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 2
Loc: long branch, new jersey, USA
Anybody have opinions, thoughts,comments, or comparisons between Outlaw's (ICBC, 950) Analog Bass Management and Harman Kardon's Digital Bass Management such as on their AVR 525? Which is better?
Harman claims that their receivers will convert the incoming analog multi-channel signal (SACD, DVD-Audio), as well as other signal sources, to digital and then allow you to manage the bass. I am suspect of this software based Digital Bass Management.
My interest is as follows:
I have a mid-line JVC Receiver that lacks bass management, except for adjustable crossover that I now presume does nothing when the multi-channel input is selected. I also have a Panasonic DVD-Audio player that has no Bass Management for DVD-Audio output. I am interested in adding Bass Management to my system for SACD/DVD-Audio. I am contemplating adding an ICBM.
Should I be envious of my friend's AVR 525 with Digital B.M. or is the Analog superior?
My question is strictly limited to Bass Management. P.S. I may also consider an Outlaw 950 and amp in the near future also. I'm just really interested in this Bass Management thing right now.
I'm asking this question in this 950 forum since, I expect that, the bright, audiophilic people here to be knowledgable on this Bass Management issue. I may also post this topic in the ICBM forum also although it's awfully quiet there.
Thanks,
Jordan

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#24428 - 11/05/03 07:26 AM Re: Analog vs. Digital Bass Management
jordanb69 Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 2
Loc: long branch, new jersey, USA
Here's more info on the Digital Bass Management that I'm asking about vs. the Analog:
http://manuals.harman.com/HK/Technology%20Articles/TripleCrssoverTechSht.pdf

Thanks again for any replies to my topic.
-Jordan

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#24429 - 11/05/03 08:10 AM Re: Analog vs. Digital Bass Management
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
There are others around here with more technical background into bass management, but I can give you the layman's summary. The ICBM offers essentially the same control over crossover points as the HK's triple crossover (a little more, actually, as it adds a control for surround back as well as stereo subwoofers). The 950's analog bass management is a scaled down version of the ICBM, with only a single fixed 80Hz crossover. In the digital domain, of course, the 950 has bass management that is functionally almost identical to the HK's.

The reason for Outlaw's use of analog bass management in lieu of digital management such as HK's is the necessity for A-D-A conversion. DVD-Audio and SACD are as good as they are in part because of the high resolution digital source and the digital to analog conversion process used at the player. Converting back to digital degrades the sound quality, at least somewhat, and converting back to analog a second time doesn't help matters.

Bottom line: the HK's digital bass management is convenient, but unless there is a great deal of design effort and equipment cost invested in the A-D-A converters used at the receiver it will not provide as good a final product as performing the bass management in the analog domain. If you've already got a receiver and DVD-Audio player, the ICBM would be an excellent fit (and for less than a new receiver would cost).

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#24430 - 11/05/03 10:34 AM Re: Analog vs. Digital Bass Management
surroundophile Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/02/02
Posts: 68
Loc: Chicago, Il. USA
Quote:
Originally posted by gonk:
There are others around here with more technical background into bass management, but I can give you the layman's summary. The ICBM offers essentially the same control over crossover points as the HK's triple crossover (a little more, actually, as it adds a control for surround back as well as stereo subwoofers). The 950's analog bass management is a scaled down version of the ICBM, with only a single fixed 80Hz crossover. In the digital domain, of course, the 950 has bass management that is functionally almost identical to the HK's.

The reason for Outlaw's use of analog bass management in lieu of digital management such as HK's is the necessity for A-D-A conversion. DVD-Audio and SACD are as good as they are in part because of the high resolution digital source and the digital to analog conversion process used at the player. Converting back to digital degrades the sound quality, at least somewhat, and converting back to analog a second time doesn't help matters.

Bottom line: the HK's digital bass management is convenient, but unless there is a great deal of design effort and equipment cost invested in the A-D-A converters used at the receiver it will not provide as good a final product as performing the bass management in the analog domain. If you've already got a receiver and DVD-Audio player, the ICBM would be an excellent fit (and for less than a new receiver would cost).



Not to mention the fact that the advantage of HiRez (96-192/24) is lost, as most digital bass management that I've seen is done at 44-48/16, making the final output equivalent to CD.

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