First off let me start by saying that not only am I new to this forum, I am also completely green to the home theater game. On that note, thanks for bearing with me, and thanks in advance for all your help! [enough with the disclaimer]

After many hours of online research and many trips to the local toy stores (aka Home Audio stores) I had gotten to the point of total confusion. Every sales person I dealt with seemed to give me information that counterdicted the last and confused me even more. By chance I came across the Outlaw website and made a call to the pre-sales staff. I spoke with Scott who not only took the time to clarify some key elements for me, he actually went so far as to recommend some "brand x" receivers that might have been a cheaper route for me. Needless to say after our conversation, I was almost immedeately sold on the Outlaw 950/7100 combo.

I plan to purchase the 950/7100 combo in the very near future along with a great 7 channel speaker setup to truly bring out the home theater experience. Therein lies the problem... I really have no idea as to what speakers would be ideal for my purposes. I don't even know where to start. That's where I'm hoping all you fine folks can help me out. Below I've listed sort of an idea of what I hope to achieve with the speakers as well as a layout of the room:

Speaker layout (roughly $1800 budget) - Center: stand alone unit (to be placed below the TV), Front L&R: preferably in-walls (possibly bookshelf or satellite styles if asthetically pleasing and not too overbearing), Rear L&R surrounds: definately in-ceiling, Rear Center L&R: also definately in-ceiling, Sub: dunno?

Room layout - 18'6"x16'4"x9' greatroom design (Front TV wall butts up to the bedroom and has no internal batting, Rear seating wall has two large dual pane windows, 3rd wall has one large dual pane window and dual pane sliding glass door, no 4th wall due to greatroom design)

Please let me know if there is anything that I left out that would help... and thanks again all!

PS. Considering I won't be able to recreate the 950/7100 combo in order to listen to any speakers at my local stores, I'm relying heavily on your guys opinions and recommendations. Thanks again!

[This message has been edited by Arizona Mike (edited October 24, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by Arizona Mike (edited October 24, 2003).]

I have not tried these speakers personally (I already had purchased speakers, so was not an option when they came out), vut I hear the Rocket 750s and associated center and surrounds are excellent speakers, and also a great match with the Outlaw gear. Check out www.av123.com. Do a search on "Rocket" speakers. Supposed to be fantastic.

Having said that, others to consider are:

Paradigm
PSB
Swan (Divas)

I think the above speakers represent great value and excellent sonic qualities. And consider

B&W (had to include it as I have these , although I admit these may not be the greatest value, but you might like the sound)

For sub woofers, check out the Hsu or SVS. These subs are fantastic. Any one of their models. I have an SVS 20-39PC+ sub.

$1800 may or may not buy all you want, so you may consider purchasing piece by piece as budget allows.

Good luck,

PS - make sure you check out the B-stocks for both the Outlaw and Rockets if you go that route. May save you some $$.

[This message has been edited by BleakShore (edited October 24, 2003).]

To be completely honest, I don't know of too many in-wall (or ceiling mount) speakers that offer a very good sound quality. I work for a small retailer in my town, and we carry polk audio and BIC mountable speakers. They are both relatively good brands, but just about any bookshelf speaker that we sell has a better overall sound than the mounted speakers. Do you have any ideas as to what sort of color/finish might work in your room if you were to get some bookshelf speakers?

There are in-walls available from Paradigm, B&W, M&K, Atlantic Tech, Boston Acoustics, and a number of others. Dane settled on B&W's, and this thread of his might be handy reading for you. Paradigm has recently added to their in-wall line (I've got a set of Paradigm Studios at home, so I can't leave them out ), and M&K and Atlantic Tech are both well-regarded speaker brands.

I would seriously recommend considering bookshelves for the mains if possible -- you'll have much greater flexibility in positioning for optimum sound. All of the brands above offer good looking bookshelves. From the description of your space, I understand why you are looking to use in-ceiling speakers for surround duty -- I think I read something somewhere on a speaker from Atlantic Tech that was designed mainly for in-ceiling installations. Also, if there is a local shop (or shops) that offer any of these lines, definitely demo them at the store at least; even though there won't be a 950/7100 driving them, it could be very informative. Also take some of your own demo material (music and/or movies) with you, so you are using material that you are familiar with.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

Great ideas so far guys... thanks for all the input!

Gonk, I took a look at that other thread you mentioned and got some great ideas from there as well. Nice to know I'm not the only one in this boat.

One quick thing... what are your guys opinions on the Morel line? A buddy of mine here in town suggested thier line of in-walls/in-ceilings (SQ-21's or HQ-21's) along with thier center channel (SoundCenter C-5) and sub (SoundSub IS-9A). The in-walls boast a fully enclosed back and a rotatable design while the dual 9" sub has a low freq response of 19Hz (nothing special about the center). Just wondering if anyone has had any experience with these. Thanks again!

Mike

One point that hasn't been mentioned (but may be implied) is that all the speakers you buy (save, perhaps, the sub) should be timbre-matched. That is, buy speakers that are meant to be used together, speakers that have similarly-engineered and constructed tweeters, etc. Ideally, one has 7 speakers that are exactly the same.

Although they never (or rarely) show up in tests, I have Klipsch speakers and think they are great. Klipsch has a user forum that rivals the Outlaw forum. Klipsch makes both in-wall and in-ceiling speakers, but I think the advice to go with bookshelf or bigger speakers is good advice.

If you want a completely built-in look, there is a sub (I don't know the brand) that fits in between wall or floor studs.

Arizona Mike,
I agree with gonk on choosing bookshelf speakers for their versatility. Once you have built-ins, you are stuck with it. What if you want to upgrade? You can, but it will be a lot of hassle and the choices will be rather small.

Ever considered kit speakers? For your budget, I’d say they are the closest thing to “perfect” speakers. Dollar per dollar, they can beat just about all commercial brands. I am a happy owner of kit speakers and a home made (from ground up) subwoofer. Try this thread: http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/ubb/Forum15/HTML/001047.html

Also, try this http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000280.html

Looking for custom finishes? This is a great site: http://www.acoustic-visions.com/

Good luck and keep the Gunslingers posted.

You like the idea of Outlaw...why not continue the trend. Internet only companies offer great value. Buy a subwoofer from SVS and add a Behringer DSP 1124 pro to smooth out the room response. This will give you a great foundation for about $700. Then take a look at my favorite speakers...Axiom, or perhaps Ascend Acoustics, ACI, or Rocket loudspeakers. Paradigm is a great speaker found at your local shop. Good in-wall speakers are expensive, and really can't compete with floorstanding, bookshelf, or monitor speakers in their price range. Take a look at the Axiom M22ti speakers or the Ascends. You can put together a great system with a fantastic sub for $1800, but look to the internet brands. If you are really in need of in-walls, look to Triad. From what I have read over the years, they have been about the highest regarded in-walls. Great speakers, but not even remotely cheap.

[This message has been edited by willscary (edited October 24, 2003).]

I'm one of those Outlaw/Rocket owners. If $1800 is your speaker budget I don't think you could do much better then the Rocket package #3 which is on sale for $1799.

Do you have some CDs and DVDs you like? If so, pack them up and head off to your local toy stores. Listen to speakers, and yes it is okay to ask the salesperson to shut up so you can listen. Listen to speakers, not the sales hype, your ears really don't care what the sales hype is but will care how the speakers sound. There is a problem with places like Circuit City and Best Buys, it's too noisy to listen to speakers. You need to shop some place that is quiet, that won't rush you, that lets you listen to YOUR cds. Relax while listening, sip some tea or coffee. Make this an enjoyable experience. Compare speakers to drinks, you prefer some tastes to others. When you have it narrowed down to two choices, ask yourself which is "hot chocolate" and which is that mug of "hot chocolate" with the little marshmellows and the whippedcream. Taste the sound the speakers produce. If you don't you may find your ears soon get bored with the plain "hot chocolate," and you've just spent a lot of money for plain, boring hot chocolate. I agree with looking at speakers you can move around, it will be like sprinkling nutmeg on your hot chocolate when you get them home. My wife thinks I've lost my mind with this metaphor, but most of us have learned this lessen over the years. Lots of luck shopping, but DO NOT buy speakers based soley on our recommendations! This is the most subjective decision in the whole hometheater process.

Alejate: No offense, but your wife is the crazy one. That metaphor was awesome! What you said really hit home. Guess I'll have to free up some time this Sunday and do just as you suggested. Only one problem... that hot chocolate idea might not fly here in AZ. It's October and it's still hitting triple digits. I wonder if they'll mind me cracking open an ice cold Fat Tire while I kick back and listen. Hmmm... Wish me luck.

Mike

Here's a recent article from "Home Theater Magazine" that's all about in-wall speakers and their installation:

http://www.hometheatermag.com/custominstallation/1003inwall/

Make sure you listen before you install!!! It's a lot easier to cut the wall than patch it.

Hey, sorry about the metaphor. We in NY have been having nights in the 20-30 F degree levels, so hot chocolate seemed appropriate for here. Yes, have a cold one. Oh, don't audition speakers while drinking alcoholic beverages, you don't know what you might wake up with the next day.

If you're interested in DVD-Audio or SACD multi-channel I'd recommend using the same full size speakers for surround as you use for front. I have B&W 604s for the front and B&W 603s for surrounds. Makes a huge difference when listening to these multi-channel music discs.

[This message has been edited by bonesmalones (edited October 25, 2003).]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned NHT - their older super zero and super one models are available here and there at close-out prices, and all are wall-mountable, and come in gloss white or black. I am a huge fan of NHT speakers - incredibly natural sounding and a great bargain. I don't know about the 7100, but the 1050 drove my super zeros and super ones very nicely - better than other receivers. I am sure that the 7100 can only be better, as NHT speakers always pay you back for purchasing better amplification. If you are willing to spend the money, you could also get the newer NHT 'SB" series which apparently sound slightly better and play way louder than the old ones (and are also available in white or black). You could get a pair of SB3s (highly regarded by stereophile, $600 MSRP), an SC2 center ($400), and four SB2s ($800) for the sides and rears for your budget. Go with the smaller SB1s, order from a retailer who discounts (like onecall), and you could probably also afford a good $500 sub within the same budget - you already have good recommendations for subs.

Brian I agree with you. My entire system is NHT, driven by a 950/770 setup. I absolutely love the setup for both music and HT. I believe the NHT's have great sound and they always seem to get good reviews but I don't think I could reccomend them to someone if they can't listen to them first. My series of speakers have been out of production for a couple of years so a test drive is out of the question unless you live near a dealer that has some older stock. (I live by Crutchfield which has a local retail and outlet store) I have listened to the SB series and they sounded very good so they would be an option. I have never listened to the NHT in-celing speakers so no reccomendation there but I do have Niles in-ceiling speakers that I installed previously and I do like how they sound. My general feeling on most in-ceiling speakers is they may be fine for HT but won't compare to a good bookshelf for multi channel music. My advice to Arizona Mike is to go to those "toy stores" and listen to quality speakers on quality equipment and buy what you like. Demo the speakers using quality components in the store will give a good indication of what to expect when hooked up to the 950. If you like how a set sounds with a receiver chances are you'll love it with the 950/7100.

"In-ceiling" speakers are good (and that's probably being too kind) only for low-level music-in-every-room applications. Not for even semi-serious music or home theatre applications. Do yourself a favour and avoid them.

Luckily our ears/brain combo has a tendency to get used to what we've got. Most of us will tend to grow more accustomed (and fond) of our speakers with time. That's a good thing if for no other reason that it protects the pocket book. This means that there are tons of choices out there for our own "perfect" speakers. If you can audition them in your own home, and you like them initially, you will likely love them more and more over time. If not at home, then in a reasonably good listening room - preferably somewhat similar in size etc. to what you have at home.

In my experience, it's also a pretty safe bet that if you've heard and liked something from a given manufacturer, then you'll probably like the rest of the product line. Names like Energy, Paradigm, Mirage, psb, Polk, and Def Tech come immediately to my mind since I'm familiar with how all of these brands sound. For example I'm almost 100% sure that since I love the little Paradigm Titans that I run in one of my rooms, that I would have no problem stepping up to any Paradigm floor standing model.

Jeff Mackwood

I also recommend against going with in-wall speakers. As noted before, they can make upgrading difficult. A while back I read a thread on another forum (don't remember which) in which someone went through their process of building an HT using B&W's top-of-the-line in wall speakers. It turned into an absolute nightmare for the person trying to get the speakers to sound right. From what I recall, he was never completely satisfied.

Personally, I'm another Outlaw/Rocket guy. I'm running a 950/7100 combo and they power and mate with my Rockets beautifully. I have Package #2 with an extra pair of 150's for 7.1 and couldn't be happier. The package #3 noted above would be great if you can handle some floor standers, if not go for package #5 or ask them to put one together for you consisting of 4-250's and a 200 center. My guess is it would cost the same as package #5. I personally have yet to hear a center that competes with the 200 for under $2000. Of course opinions differ but AFAIK it is that damn good.

I upgraded the audio in my small home theatre this year. I went with the Outlaw Audio Model 950/7100 combo and the M&K 750 MKII THX Select Speaker System. I bought my speakers over the Internet from Downtown Audio for under $2000 and they are great.

M&K Certified THX Speaker Systems
http://www.mksound.com/thx_sys.html

History of M&K
http://www.mksound.com/pdf/ken_and_company/history.pdf

Cheapest place I know for purchasing M&K speakers is Downtown Audio where you can purchase the 750 MKII THX Select Speaker System for under $2000.
http://www.downtownaudio.com/mksound.html

-------------------------------------
750 MKII THX Select Speaker System Reviews

Audio Video Review:
Presence, dynamics and a sense of cohesive accuracy are the core attributes of this AV speaker system. Add a delicate sense of detail, smooth tonality and overall approachability to that equation, and you have a winning set-up. Need lots of oomph and a quality source signal to prove their full potential, though
http://www.extraordinaryav.co.za/M&Ksep2000.htm

Yanman Review:
Speakers are the most subjective of any piece of a Home Theater setup, what one person likes another may hate. The best tip of course is to listen to the speakers first, preferably in your environment, and then make your decision. If you are planning on setting up a THX theater in a room of less then 2000 cubic feet, put the M&K 750THX Select Speaker System at the top of your list, everything else will have a hard time competing. "THX, the audience is listening..."
http://www.yanman.com/HomeTheater/Reviews/Hardware/MK750THX.htm


Good luck with whatever you choose !

Omnimount makes brackets for mounting bookshelf speakers to the ceiling.

http://www.omnimount.com/product.asp?p=54

Perhaps Vader is right. Why should I sacrifice quality for a little thing like a budget. If I'm going to do this HT thing right, then I should concede to the fact that I'm going to have to pay for it... and pay for it BIG! It's obvious to me now that cost has a direct affect on quality. Surely I was wrong in assuming that spending $3000 for the whole system was even remotely feasible, when in reality $3000 per speaker simply makes more sense to me now. However, I shall view my time and effort spent researching and looking for what I had originally thought would be a nice, clean, natural sounding set of "reasonably" priced speakers as a learning experience. I shall discount what I once thought was exceptional advice from the years of real world experience here at the Outlaw Forum and heed the advice of Mr. Vader. I shall finally then, concede to the fact that I must simply add a few more zeros into the checkbook.

On second thought... scratch all that! I'm a t-shirt and jeans kinda guy. I really could care less if I "get" to tell people that I spent $3000 dollars on two speakers. As a matter of fact, most of my friends would kick my butt if I made a move like that (thank God for good friends)! Also, it doesn't matter to me if I "get" to tell people that I have components by B&W, M&K, or BFD... as long as after everything is said and done, I end up with a good quality, clean sounding home theater setup. And having a few less zeros in the checkbook doesn't hurt either!

Mike

Mike, I really wanted to like Legacy, I mean I REALLY wanted to like them, I could see them mounted in my walls. I even dragged my wife with me to listen to them. They sounded alright, but just not good enough to buy. I had the poor dealer swapping out amps and preamps, but to no avail. Had I not listened to other speaker manufactures I would have bought these. But for a few less bucks I purchased what my ears think is a superior sounding speaker. Remember, this is the most subjective purchase in home theater, take your time and listen to the speakers and not us. Make this an enjoyable experience.

I have to agree with Alejate. My mains are currently a pair of 6.5" bookshelf JVCs that I picked up at a flea market for $40. You can ask D'Arbingal about this, but I think they are some awesome sounding speakers. Everyone who has listened to my system (without knowing what I paid for the speakers) has been quite impressed.

I'm currently looking into GR Research's speaker line. I can buy a beautifully finished set from a guy like Brian Bunge for < $1000, and they have been compared favorably to speakers in the $3000+ range.

The moral of the story? High price does not a good speaker necessarily make. Contrary to what some believe, just because it's expensive does not make it better. Listen and make your own decision.

-Joe

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Remember the Intellivision?
http://www.gotmaille.com/nostalgia/

I dont believe in-walls (Legacy or not) would provide the best sound...

A link to the speaker manufacturer I eventually purchased from:

http://www.axiomaudio.com/products.html

Better speakers than I had imagined. I bought online, just like the Outlaws! I am glad I did, as these are awesome. In a bare room these may be bright. In a "soft" room, they are articulate. Extremely revealing, they are hard on poor recordings, but good recordings shine. (others have said this also about Axiom). At least research them a little. They may not be for you, but then again, they might be just what you are seaching for!

Axiom makes great speakers that are also a great value. And I'd say so even if they weren't Canadian and did not trace their roots to Canada's National Research Council.

Jeff Mackwood
National Research Council Canada

Axiom is definetly another audio gem found on the internet. I have one of their center channels, and if it wasn't for already being happy with my mains, I would strongly consider them for my mains as well. They were one of the top 3 when I decided on new speakers. Looking down the road, I will probably get some Axioms for my surrounds

I am in the same kind of situation. I originally was planning to buy the 1050 until its aging design put me off. We then decided to go for the 950/7100 combo, and plan to order that soon. However, still not really sure what speakers will be best. Besides some of the brands already mentioned, what about Mirage's Omnipolar system? I've read some good reviews, and they meet another of my requirements of being relatively small so they do not dominate the room. Any comments on this system from anyone?

Those are only two reviews, edav, there are numerous reviews including Stereophile Home Theater where the author did not expect to blown away by the musicality of the 750 system as well as it's dynamics with movies.
This flys in the face of some critics who sometimes forget it is only reproducing what it is given. Give it smooth, it will put out smooth!
Based on an individual's choice, it may not be the speakers of your choice, but I think one would be amiss in not audtioning them in the course of making selections. Was listening to the DVD-A of the Beach Boys Pet Sounds album with the studio talk on track 17 that blends into the final cut of "God Only Knows", you can be virtually transported as you lay back in your easy chair!

Speaker audtioning in the right place can be an extraordinary experience regardless of what you take home with you!
And take what you like! All this talk about movie sound vs. 2 ch, vs. music, etc. if fine and dandy, and you should listen to all sources before deciding. But I will say I have heard some great music on some soundtracks.

[This message has been edited by DaleB (edited November 15, 2003).]

the most important thing when buying speakers regardless of price is to audition them. specs, opinion, salesmen all have different opinions as you have seen. one disadvantage of buying online is you cant hear/see the product to demo it, so make sure if you go that route go somewhere with a good return policy. if you are watching movies, then there are two speakers that matter most, center and sub, so id spend the bulk on those two. if you like music more then the fronts are most important. and you wont get nearly as good of performance from in walls as bookshelfs, so id say put them on stands in the front. there are a bunch of really nice looking/performing stands out there that any wife wouldnt mind much. $1800 is not a tremendous amount for speakers considering the pre/pro and amp you picked out, so perhaps you should think about buying what you feel are the most important parts first and then gradually adding the rest. that is always a good way when on a budjet, eventhough its nice to get it all out of the way at one time. lots of places offer tradeups on speaker models, so even if the line changes a little bit, you can trade in your old ones for the new ones and then complete the set. i would stick with one brand for every speaker other than the sub, since voice (timbre) matching is vital and the tweeter is what allows this matching. i have always found that polk audio is a good performer at a good price except for their subs which are junk. i cant recommend any subs to you since i only have used ones that cost more than your entire budget, but svs is highly rated and so is hsu.

oh and take a cd of some music that you like into the place where u plan to demo some speakers.

Just like auditioning Outlaw equipment, SVS and Axiom allow you to try for 45 and 30 days respectively in your own home for only the cost of shipping. (I only am sure of these two because I tried and kept both). Speakers are VERY subjective, and are influenced immensely by room acoustics, so it is always best to try them in your own room, and experiment with placements when doing so.

the comments above are correct, even though there are some great deals from a number of different companies on the net, speaker auditioning IN PERSON is a VERY important part of deciding. When I was in the market for mains, I read a number of reviews and narrowed my choices down based on what I read. Then came the most important part. I took a handful of my favorite CDs and auditioned a BUNCH of speakers with my music. Some of the speakers I origonally thought I wanted (based on what I read), were disapointing to my ears. After about a month of EXTREMELY fun comparison shopping I made my decision.

FWIW,
Your front speakers will probably have the most impact on your overall system performance, particularly if you decide to stay with inwall options for your surrounds.
I would think an in wall speaker solution will not create a front "sound stage" as accurate or pleasing to the ears as free standing speakers can.
"Sense of depth - breadth - placement of sounds" within the front sound stage.
Given the option to go with bookshelves and a center speaker that is not wall mount. The Polk Lsi-9 series bookshelf speakers and matching LSiC can be found online for around 1K delivered = 650 + 350. (1500.00 retail)
The LSi series speakers have gotten excellent professional and owner reviews since their arrival in the market place over a year ago, generally compared to speakers costing 2 or 3 times this price.
Your rear sound field is generally fill and supporting sound effects yet the effects are quite often full range and require a speaker capable of reproducing fairly deep bass and reproducing a decent rear sound stage for accurate placement and sound effect pans between the front and rear. Wall mount rear speakers may be preferable since a voice or sound effect coming from a ceiling speaker may sound entirely out of place.
There are some excellent choices available within the ceiling and wall mount speaker arena. Polk Lsi - Mirage - Niles - NHT - Boston Acoustic - Klipsch - B&W - M&K - most major mfr.’s.
get out and demo some some surround flicks and tunes. See if you can find a dealers demo area with overhead or wall mount surrounds and listen to them sitting on a couch - do they sound "right" up there ?
May be one other thing to consider - possible rearrangement of furniture within a space having an impact on initial installation placement causing you to need to reposition the speakers built in walls. Dry wall can be patched

www.accessories4less.com is an electronics closeout dealer of several brands. NHT - while not the cheapest or most expensive option, 2 pairs of in wall or ceiling for rear surround about 800.oo Add the new Outlaw LFM1 for 570.oo
A bit over budget . . . but one sweet sounding system.
Good luck and have fun in your search !


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My train wreck
My modest HT . .


[This message has been edited by Steve_C (edited November 17, 2003).]

Well, I have to say that all of the help and info that I have received have truly been a HUGE help in my search for the "perfect" speakers. Based on several recommendations I have narrowed it down to what I think will not only work out best for me, but also stay within my original budget. So here goes...

Center - Axiom VP100
Front L&R - Axiom M22ti's
Rear surrounds - Morel SD20 in-ceilings
Sub - SVS PB1-ISD (unless I can be patient enough to wait for the LMF-1)

I would greatly appreciate any input or suggestions you guys might have and thanks again for all your help!

Mike

You will be amazed at the Axioms. If your room is bright they will seem a touch bright, but if the room is carpeted with softer furniture, etc...you will be amazed. The only suggestion I would make are the surrounds. The axiom QS-8s are among the best, and mount directly on the wall.

Also, call and ask for B-stock...if you buy that way you save 10%. You can ask for the finish you desire and will get it, although you may have to wait a few days. If you get the QS-8s along with the M22s and VP-150, ask Amie to give you an additional 5% off the total as a package discount. They gave me the B-stock prices plus the discount and I chose my finish. They all look flawless!

You will enjoy these speakers!

Will,

Just a couple questions for ya... First off, why the recommendation on the QS-8s as opposed to the QS-4s? And why the VP-150 as opposed to the VP-100? My room is roughly 18d x 16w x 9h with concrete flooring. So on a side note, I'm assuming from your statement that the Axioms will end up sounding a bit bright in my room (even with a large area rug and leather furniture). And lastly, will I still be able to get the 5% discount if I'm buying the package without the sub? Thanks for the help!

Mike

Just ask Amie for a discount...I got one without buying the sub. The M22s, VP-150, and QS-8s all use the same drivers, and mate very well together. Although the VP-100 uses the same driver, I have heard from many who have upgraded that the VP-150 was a big step up in sound from the VP-100. I am astounded by the way my system sounded (they are boxed while I work on the house) and highly recommend the Axioms. If budget only allows the QS-4s, they will be OK. The QS-8s, however, have had fantastic reviews from most everyone who has heard them. If you were to purchase that system and mated it with a great sub, you would be very happy for a long time.

As far as the room, you may need to tone it down a touch. Simply buying $20 worth of sound batt fiberglass insulation and some 2X4s, making some boxes to put the insulation in, and covering it with fabric will tame the room,s brightness. Locate the panels at points of first and second reflections. This will help. More rugs or carpet on the floor will also help.

The Axioms are not bright...they are accurate. Just like a loud "clap" is harsh and rings in a live room, so does the midrange sound from an accurate and articulate speaker.