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#23066 - 05/23/03 12:57 PM Re: HI- FI Interconnects - Fact or Fiction ?
soundhound Offline
Desperado

Registered: 04/10/02
Posts: 1857
Loc: Gusev Crater, Mars
See my post under "Soundhound's DIY interconnects!"

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#23067 - 05/29/03 09:10 PM Re: HI- FI Interconnects - Fact or Fiction ?
doclb Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 05/29/03
Posts: 2
I've had good results the last several years with Acoustic Research Pro Series interconnects. They are well made and inexpensive. They are available at www. accessories4less.com. I also have a set of Outlaw interconnects and really can't tell much difference in system performance. And for whatever it's worth, even Stereophile magazine recommended the Acoustic Research cables last month.

Disclaimer -- I have no asociation with Acoustic Research, accessories4less or Stereophile.

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#23068 - 05/30/03 10:21 AM Re: HI- FI Interconnects - Fact or Fiction ?
Jason J Offline
Desperado

Registered: 09/02/02
Posts: 615
Loc: Northern Garden State
Quote:
I was just thinking, as a semi-professional musician (happy hour- guitar guy) - that the cables which 99% of musicians use to hook their instruments up to an amp or board, are probably 90% cheaper than the "boutique" cables which audiophiles are buying in order to reproduce - the sound coming FROM those musicians using cheap cables -


The only problem I've ever found with guitar cables, as a sound engineer, is that most guitarist don't really know how to properly coil a cable. If they did, their cables might just work a little bit better.

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#23069 - 05/30/03 10:32 AM Re: HI- FI Interconnects - Fact or Fiction ?
sigmachi25 Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 23
Loc: Jax, Fla.
I guess at the end of a gig/session - we are too lazy to put all those cables away properly - I have had many times where I should have coiled everything nicely, and woke up to look at an explosion at the spaghetti factory in my gig box !!

I have learned that it is definitely worth the extra time to keep the cables alive for the next time.

But that's why there are engineers to keep the artists in line : )

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#23070 - 05/30/03 01:19 PM Re: HI- FI Interconnects - Fact or Fiction ?
Joshorr Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 10/09/01
Posts: 50
Loc: Boston, MA
Here is an article from Secrets about a DYI speaker cable:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_10_2/ultralink-CL414-cable-5-2003.html

It has some interesting stuff on the theory of "good" cables (ie the physics behind them) and another installment to the bi-wire debate that even my non-engineer mind could begin to understand.

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#23071 - 06/01/03 02:59 AM Re: HI- FI Interconnects - Fact or Fiction ?
bestbang4thebuck Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/20/03
Posts: 668
Loc: Maryland
For interconnects, I am using Belden 1694A video cable with Canare connectors. Because of my background in both video and audio technical situations, I chose to use the crimp-type Canare connectors in order to maintain a ‘true 75 ohm’ cable, end-to-end. This helps with video. IMHO, the solder-type work just as well in audio, but may present small problems in some video situations. Some say that the solder-type connector will maintain a better connection with the cable over the long term. On the other hand, I have never found a problem with properly made crimp-type connectors, some with BNC-type connectors that I have found in use for over a decade or two.

My solution to the varied speaker cable ‘physics’ problems has been to use Belden 8281 video cable, the outer (shield) conductor only, in pairs. 1: Resistance is quite small; only 1.1 ohm per 1000 feet! That means that fifty feet out and fifty feet back to a speaker, for a round-trip total of a 100 feet of this cable, will have only about a tenth of an ohm resistance. That’s not easy for standard speaker cable to match. 2: Inductance is small; the way this cable is used, no current is passed via the center of the cable where the effects of inductance are concentrated. That’s also hard for standard speaker cable to match. 3: Capacitance, already almost a non-issue, is reduced by the fact that each half of the cable pair is not held in tight proximity to its neighbor for the whole length of the cable run. These cables are not ‘thin and light,’ and the ends need some preparation to be used this way, but I like the results.

After all, getting the signal from one place to another with as little hindrance and alteration as possible is the goal.

Happy and safe cabling everyone!

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#23072 - 06/01/03 04:52 AM Re: HI- FI Interconnects - Fact or Fiction ?
soundhound Offline
Desperado

Registered: 04/10/02
Posts: 1857
Loc: Gusev Crater, Mars
Yes, you're absolutely right about the importance of using the crimp connectors when making a video cable, thus maintaining the 75 ohm characteristic impedance. In my own system on equipment I build (a good deal of it) I use BNCs for audio connections because they are a much superior connector than the RCA.

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#23073 - 06/07/03 04:27 AM Re: HI- FI Interconnects - Fact or Fiction ?
AGAssarsson Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 12/19/02
Posts: 144
Loc: Washington, DC, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by bestbang4thebuck:
For interconnects, I am using Belden 1694A video cable with Canare connectors. Because of my background in both video and audio technical situations, I chose to use the crimp-type Canare connectors in order to maintain a ‘true 75 ohm’ cable, end-to-end. This helps with video. IMHO, the solder-type work just as well in audio, but may present small problems in some video situations. Some say that the solder-type connector will maintain a better connection with the cable over the long term. On the other hand, I have never found a problem with properly made crimp-type connectors, some with BNC-type connectors that I have found in use for over a decade or two.

After all, getting the signal from one place to another with as little hindrance and alteration as possible is the goal.


I have a electrical engineer (EE) friend that works for a local broadcast studio here in Washington, DC. He has built his own A/V cable interconnects for special purposes to accommodate unique needs for his studio environments, and for home theater clients. I showed him SH's DIY cable primer, and he was very complementary.

He emphasized that for each A/V purpose, he considers the cable (including the type of termination) specifications for:
impedance
inductance
capacitance
velocity of propagation
shield construction and characteristics (including unavoidable proximity to sources of interference)
and the physical length, diameter, weight, flexibility and jacket (or wrap)

For those who do not build their own interconnects, or lack the expertise to select the right cable or terminations for their purpose, he suggested the source for much of the cable in his environment; AFAB Enterprises, Inc. (www.AVCable.com). This company sells specialty A/V cable to the broadcast industry for a small fraction of what equivalent (or often lesser) quality "boutique cable" sells for.

While I use Outlaw PCA interconnects between my 950 and 770 amp, I have used this cable for both component video, S-video, analog and digital audio interconnects, without complaint. They offer tremendous flexibility in cable and connector types. Custom cables can be ordered at only small incremental cost. They select cable from different manufacturers such as Belden and Gepco, and use RCA connectors by Canare.

I am interested to know what the gunslingers know about this company and/or its products. I may just have been lucky so far, but my experience has been very good. My EE friend believes that the product is of both excellent and consistent quality.

Also, the use of coax cable for analog audio (as opposed to twisted pair) has me curious. Do the Gunslingers have a preference for coax based on the specifications of the cable, or is it based on the something else, such as the ease of producing a quality DIY termination? Because "A/V Cable" also make a variety of balanced analog audio interconnects, they chose to use twisted pair cable for their unbalanced interconnects also. This seems like a topic that many of you might have strong opinions about.

I am NOT an electrical engineer, and I have not made my own interconnects. It seams clear to me, however, that cables built to their specific purpose, that optimize the characteristics for accurate signal transfer are both desirable, and can be purchased (or DIY built) for significantly less than the "Snake-Oil Industry" would want us to believe.

Thanks to all who have contributed to this most valuable, and money saving thread...

[This message has been edited by AGAssarsson (edited June 08, 2003).]

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#23074 - 06/09/03 03:57 PM Re: HI- FI Interconnects - Fact or Fiction ?
bestbang4thebuck Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/20/03
Posts: 668
Loc: Maryland
Hello neighbors! Especially AGAssarsson and his EE buddy. ("bestbang4thebuck" works in DC ... in the technical side of video production.) Small world, ain't it?

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#23075 - 06/10/03 02:32 AM Re: HI- FI Interconnects - Fact or Fiction ?
AGAssarsson Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 12/19/02
Posts: 144
Loc: Washington, DC, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by bestbang4thebuck:
Small world, ain't it?


I am recovering from the Devils fans thinking that they won the Stanley Cup, instead of the team itself... and then they booed JS Giguiere for winning the Conne Smithe Trophy (playoff MVP). It makes me think of so many who have great sound systems, but don't really like music too much. Homers with big egos, but no appreciation for the game.

I just finished a church in Laurel, MD, near where you live. It is on Riding Stable Road, 1/3 mile north of Route 198. It is called Bethany Community Church. They need some help with the future A/V system design and it would be great if you could stop in and check it out someday. The sanctuary is a good space, but they have limited resources. Please let me know if you want a tour someday.

I have enjoyed your posts.

Allan
QuestDakota@aol.com

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