Just asking for opinions or, better yet, facts. Do you think the 950 has many quality control issues? I have not had a problem with mine, (it's about one year old), but from what I read on other forums it sounds like the 950 is prone to many problems. There is even one post that states a customer returned his 950 three times before he received one that worked. From reading in this forum, I figured it might just be the minority that respond with their problems, since most other manufacturers do not have such forums for their products to see how they fare. But the "word on the street" seems that potential customers are "gun shy" to buy the 950 because of its history. Could it be because problems are freely aired on this post? Is it because Outlaw is a new company? The "bugs just needed to be worked out?" There are quality control issues? Audiophile jealousy? What do you think?

Alejate,

A great thread start! I am gun shy of the 950 due to the post on this forum. I want to believe that the openess of this forum is the cause of my concern, not the 950 quality.
I am very impressed with the Outlaw's Customer Service, However, a 100 thousand mile warranty on a Yugo is not a good deal, if its in for repairs all of the time. I know the Outlaws probably will not post the data, but Mean Time Between Repairs would be interesting. So come on Gunslingers and voice your positive experince with the 950. I'm hoping that the repair to units sold ratio is very small.

I don't know if it's the forum that makes the issues seem greater or not. I only know that I got my 770/950 combo in January 03 and have been thrilled with it. Yeah, I had to send it back for the DTS-ES issue, but that really wasn't a big deal. It seems like any of the early bugs have been worked out (There are always going to be some bad units come out, regardless of brand) and I can't imagine anyone getting a better pre-pro for the money. It is highly unlikely that my ears could tell the difference. Plus, the service is extraordinary, if there is a problem or question about operation of the unit. Also, while I seldom post to this forum, I read it almost daily and have gotten a load of tips through it. I wouldn't hesitate on anything the Outlaws make. But, if someone feels more comfortable buying from their local A/V store basically the same equipment for twice the price, have at it.

This is an excellent question. Personally, I think quality control on the 950 is quite good. I also think that it is worth keeping in mind just how much of a factor this forum is. Every user who receives a defective unit has the option of posting here when the unit arrives, or mentioning it at any time afterward. And since every user has almost certainly been to the web site, the likelihood of them being aware of this forum is high. In contrast, people buying Rotel or Adcom or Sherbourn or Atlantic Tech or (fill in the blank) don't have a manufacturer-based forum, and many of them will never know about the third-party forums like HTF or HTT or HTSpot because they did some or all of their shopping through brick & mortar outlets. Defective units or warranty repairs for those products are significantly less likely to be commented on in an online forum. In addition to the heightened likelihood of problems being reported on the forum, consider this: I started a " post here when you receive your 950 " thread back when they started shipping pre-orders out. At the time, Outlaw was using air freight to bring shipments over from the factory to fill preorders as well as bring additional shipments over by freighter. Between April and September, I counted a grand total of 55 posts reporting people receiving 950's. We will never know how many pre-ordes there were, but I think it's safe to say that there were likely a few thousand. That means that out of the most eager buyers (those who pre-ordered, many of whom gravitated to this forum while waiting for their 950's to arrive), we saw only a handful -- likely under 5%, possibly closer to 1% -- come to the forum to say, "Got it! Works great!" Expand that for the 18 months or so since then, and it seems almost irrefutable that a large majority of satisfied 950 buyers never set foot in this forum, or come here to read the posts but never actually say anything. The regular posters in this forum who are also 950 owners likely account for a fraction of a percent of the total 950 ownership. A much higher percent of users experiencing problems are going to appear here -- it's an extension of the concept of the squeaky wheel getting the grease.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

[This message has been edited by gonk (edited February 08, 2004).]

I've got a 950 and a 755 and two m-200's... All of which have performed flawlessly for the last year.. I use it for an average of a hour every day...

The other day I listened to a copule of cd's that I hadn't in a while and was astounded again at how good it sounds

i like paratrooper am scared of the 950 due to the problems i have read about. kudos to outlaw for having the balls to let you complain about their product though. seeing as the 950 is produced overseas for many manufacturers it must be cheap to make, and sadly when things are cheap to make, they sometimes end up being cheap. i am hoping that their next gen pre/pro will be exactly what i want...

Honestly, having lurked in this forum for over a year and having owned a 950 for a couple of months, I can't understand why anyone could be scared of it.

While it may be relatively inexpensive, it is definitely not "cheap", and Outlaw takes all the risk out of owning it with their trial offer and history of outstanding service. It even gets great reviews.

Curegeorg, I think the loss is all yours.

no doubt, they do have wonderful customer service and a good return policy, but it is a hassle to have to have your unit repaired a lot (well really at all...).

An excellent point, but going back to my earlier post -- are repairs actually any more common for 950 owners than owners of other comparable pre/pros? Sure, we hear about them here on the forum, and it's always a bummer when a piece of gear is sidelined, but how many users never post here because their 950's never break? We certainly don't see a post from every 950 owner to have to make use of the 950's warranty, but we probably see a fair percentage. On the other hand, the number of 950 owners who put in an appearance here is likely only a tiny, tiny sampling of all 950 owners. If the 950 were actually the home theater equivalent of an old Jaguar (buy two because one will always be in the shop), you'd see a much different trend in this forum. Hence pleary's (and my) assertion that he doesn't see a solid case for the 950 being unreliable.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

I agree that it would be a big hassle to have to keep sending your unit in for repair. So I guess it is a good thing that I have a 950 and havn't had to worry about this. I have owned it for almost a year and i havn't had any problems with it. And I suspect that is the case for most people (especitally those that purchased after the dts bug was fixed). I am a frequent reader of the forum but I rarely post, but I would definitely post if I was experiencing problems. I agree with gonk's statement that only a very small percentage of satisfied customers ever post on this forum. An easy way to answer this question would be for the people at outlaw to give us some numbers on this. Maybe a percentage for the number of units returned for repair?

There’s an old saying that goes, “If a tree falls in a forest and no one is there to hear it, did it still make a sound?” I’m not the one who would say “no” to that.

I remember returning 2 VCRs bought from separate stores all within a week a due to problems. One was JVC with video malfunction and the other was Mitsubishi with audio malfunction.

For their own benefit, people must distinguish the difference between what it seems like versus what it really is.

Actually, I don't know if I can recall an audio/video purchase that I felt more secure making.

And relative to curegeorg's original comment about Outlaw "having the balls" to provide an online forum where people might complain, I'd say it's really just an indicator of their confidence in the quality of their stuff.

I mean, where else could you buy a $400 receiver like the 1050 that you could sell 18 months later (after being discontinued)for the same amount? If they can create an inexpensive reciever with that kind of staying power, why worry about their pre/pro at twice the price?

Indeed. In the evolving technology nitch where pre-pro's exist the 950 is as solid a piece of hardware as any out there. And... in consideration of this rapidly evolving technology, why would anyone (Bill Gates and company excuded) invest heavily in current state-of-the-art when it will be overrun in two years. I don't have confidence in the term "upgradable", as it is sure to have significant limitations for future inovations. Please refer to the aforementioned Bill Gates business model for support.

If you have the money... buy a Lexicon MC-12B, hook it up to some McIntosh or Krell monoblocks and enjoy. But most of us mortals will have something new in a few years that will have newer technolgies incorporated for far less money, and we will have been to Disney World too.


[This message has been edited by AGAssarsson (edited February 13, 2004).]

I watched this site and read the post for about a year now and just bought my 950/7100 combo. One of the main reasons I bought it was that in that year anytime I read about a 950 with a problem (and I believe I can count them on one hand) it ended the same way. The guy with the problem had a new one on his doorstep in 24 hours. Hats off to the Outlaws!! Keep up the good work

Lasher

good point gonk, i suppose most people tend to complain more loudly before they praise at the same level. ill see what the next generation of 950 has to offer and if it has what i want, i will probably give it a try. i have had pretty good luck with my electronics purchases, so i guess i take it for granted that everyone does not. in my experience audio gear is usually very durable (unlike tvs, computers, etc.) and will last until it needs to be replaced by the next great thing; that is why i am concerned. its great if the product breaks and you can get it repaired/replaced for free under warranty, but when youve had it a while and it breaks, then you have to pay to get it fixed, and at that point you are disappointed. at least most people who have posted about a problem appear to be happy with the solution.