976

Anybody notice the Model 976 has been discontinued?

I just did.

To bad, as it fared very well against my previous ultra high-end, ultra-expensive Lexicon MC 12B. Hopefully, there will be a 976 follow-on at a similar price point.

In my current AV configuration, the 976 is used strictly for sound, via COAX and/or optical cables from the source devices (high-end Pioneer CD/SACD/DVD/DVD-A player; ISP cable box). All video is sent via HDMI cables directly to my 4K UHD 65" Samsung TV. Recently, I purchased a Roku streaming device which will be connected directly to the TV with HDMI cable. (Note: All HDMI cables fully support HDMI 2.0.) Since the Roku is a very simple device with 1 HDMI and 1 USB port, I would like to use 976/5000 surround sound system, instead of the wimpy TV speakers, and the only option appears to be HDMI (ARC).

Does any forum members have experience with this signal path? I'm particularly interested in whether the HDMI (ARC) path will supersede the COAX-connected audio paths. Thanks for our assistance

I have my tv connected via HDMI-ARC so that I can send the audio of any of the TV streaming apps to my Model 976. I have the TV input on the Model 976 configured to use HDMI-ARC as source. My other inputs which use coax are not impacted in any way. The only important note is that HDMI OUT 1 is connected to the TV input that supports ARC.

The signal path is entirely determined by the configuraion of the input.

When using the ARC, does it allow for an uncompressed codec?

Stereo PCM is uncompressed, 5.1 channel is Dolby Digital or DTS. Not all TVs support outputting multichannel over ARC, or only do so under certain circumstances.

The new eARC standard does support uncompressed multichannel audio, but the Model 976 was released far before eARC.

Can someone please show me where it says the 976 is discontinued. My understanding was that they are not available due to a chip shortage. Same for the Ultra X13. No longer available on their website. Since both of these were newer models, I'm curious as to why they'd be discontinued.

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/976.html

I have a 975 and finally was going to upgrade to a 976.
But now its discontinued. =[

Now I'm having the hardest time finding a 976 in the online used market.

Anyone have any tips or tricks to find a used 976?

Wow! Discontinued already and I haven't even installed mine into my system to replace my 975. Yes, my 976 has been sitting in my closet since I bought it. Procrastination plus a very busy last year before retiring from 3M Company after a great, fun 38.75 year career. I will soon finally install my 976 - hope it doesn't have problems as it's now out of warranty.

Wow, I wish I had such wealth to sit onto thousand dollars of unused audio gear!

Are there any plans to replace this with something newer when parts become available again? Frankly, I'm worried about being able to buy anything from Outlaw in the future. A/V processors just can't be found almost anywhere, regardless of brand, but I'd like another Outlaw in the future if possible.

Why would it be out of warranty?

The 976 warranty is 3 years.

Yup, out of warranty. Looks like Outlaw has no pre/pro, not even any B stock and no hint of planned future model. I guess that with so many people streaming audio nowadays, the pre/pro market is tiny.

Kind of makes you think that Outlaw wont be around much longer.
You either innovate or die.

Well Parasound is still around after getting out of the Pre/pro biz before the advent of HDMI.

But I agree. I hope Outlaw is working on SOMETHING to follow up the otherwise successful 976. I suppose releasing something worthy of the Outlaw name at their position* in the market.
*great brand products delivering SQ above, perhaps well above their $.

Until recently I’ve shied away from thinking about an Atmos or equivalent system. My reason stems from 10-12 years ago, the mantra: better to do 5.X channels well* than make a mediocre attempt at 7.X channels. In 2-3 years I’ll have a different and sufficient space to do 7 channels as well as I’ve done 5 in a smaller space**. I’m considering I could nearly as easily do 5.X***.4 well* in the same space. I prefer Outlaw’s approach to the pre/pro world almost as much as my wallet! I thoroughly enjoyed the upgrade of the 975****. The 976 took my system to the next level in several ways****. But enough mindless rambling…
*well to me is a separate discussion entirely
** too many try to cram 10 lbs of system into a 5 lb space
***yet another discussion!
****975 for sale! Have a package deal that includes a 5 ch THX certified amp

So Outlaw Audio: what ya up to?!

Thanks all. Merry Christmas.
Tony

Getting ready to sell my 976 if anyone is interested.

I'm interested. What's the price?

Outlaw has been circling the drain for quite a while. Their staff doesn't even really show up here on a regular basis anymore and the company hasn't offered anything innovative in a very long time. Their amplifiers and subs, which used to be their bread and butter, have similar/better alternatives available from other vendors who ARE invested in their customers, offer the value pricing that we'd become accustomed to, and who periodically refresh their catalog of equipment.

I'll always fondly remember Outlaw as a company that made it possible for me to affordably step up my game with quality audio equipment. I lost faith in their ability to deliver after the repeated mulligans with the 990 replacement.

My 976 is defective, for the third time since I own it. I'm not sure I want to send it cross border yet another time! It's a pitty because I like the thing!

I checked the processor offering of the competition, a brand that starts with an E, and all of their processors are marked as non available. Are there any processor available from other brands that I may have overlooked, beside the very hign end?

I’m sad for you

curious to learn of your replacement when you decide. Considering but unlikely I’ll upgrade/dabble beyond 7 channels, currently running 5 channels.

Good fortune to you. Tony

This is sad. I went all "E" a couple of years ago but their 976 equivalent had so many problems that I finally returned it and got the 976. The only thing I don't like about the 976 is that it doesn't have on-screen display (at least in 4k) and it's impossible to read its screen from any distance. Also, all EQ/room-correction is totally manual so I ended up having to buy a MiniDSP 8x8 with Dirac and UMC mic.

Anyway, the folks at "E" just released the MC1 that looks really nice. At least on paper - I'd want to see a lot of reviews before I'd consider it. But, at least they have that plus their more expensive processors while Outlaw has zip!

Hi all,
Long time Outlaw owner, but first post here.

I've done some measurements and found that my 976 (and I think all others) show increased THD and IMD when PEQ is engaged.

This is actually audible in some cases. Try playing a test tone (sine wave) in the range of 50 - 100 Hz and switch PEQ on and off. For me, this is from my PC over HDMI. Tell me if you don't hear a low buzzing sound when PEQ is engaged, and a pure(r) sine wave when it's off.

My measurements with REW and RMA might explain this. For the whole story, see this: https://www.avnirvana.com/threads/outlaw...3778/post-81040

Nevertheless, the 976 was a huge bargain and if mine dies, I really don't know how I will replace it. Just look at the appalling performance of AVR/Ps in Audio Science Review.

All the best
Phil

Hi Phil, I'm not experiencing what you describe. I read through the whole thread on avnirvana and I have one suggestion that may help with your troubleshooting. You mentioned that you had experienced ground loop issues previously - since this problem is audible on the headphone output have you tried moving your Outlaw 976 and source to another outlet in your home, or to another home? I know you aren't hearing classic ground loop noise, but perhaps a rare power gremlin?

I must admit, I've never used the EQ. I balanced my system using the auto setup and that was good for me.
My question is, how audible is the difference in noise? I mean, every device in the signal path contributes to overall noise. When the EQ is engaged, your directing the signal path through the additional EQ circuitry and, most assuredly, you're going to increase the noise factor somewhat.
But is this increase even audible?

you DID use the Delay* DSP by running the Auto Setup😊. Over the five years in my system, being accustomed to setting the same* manually using a tape measurer. Are you certain the Auto Setup didn’t make any PEQ adjustments? You should check to see.
*Delay - the software where you plug in the distances to your speakers from your Prime Seating Position.


here you read my mind!

Your reply got me thinking. I’ll speculate that the DSP FOR EQ and the Delay are separate units as he only hears the noise when the PEQ is ON.

Lets hope someone from Outlaw will chime to confirm a single DSP unit or two separate, and a solution to Phil’s pain!

thankfully, it seems, most units don’t manifest a PEQ/DSP induced noise increase.

He hears it

Looking at his figures from the Audio Nirvana site, these don't seem to me that they would be in the audible range. Especially trying to hear it over any playback material. Arbitrageur couldn't hear it.
If the EQ circuit was introducing audible noise, wouldn't you be able to hear it with nothing playing by just toggling the EQ on/off? It's something I'll try when I get back home.
No, I don't believe the auto setup changes any of the PEQ settings. I'll check that too.

Thanks for the comments, guys.
Please note that the measurements I published on AV Nirvana are not as accurate as could be, and are for comparison purposes. The Outlaw support group has taken me to task for this, and I will be correcting my post.
Most notably, the MOTU M-2 definitely has rising THD below about 40 Hz. This is clearly seen in all the sweeps, on other equipment as well.

I'll run some more measurements with balanced output and revise.

How audible is it? Well, if I play the audiophile standard Spanish Harlem from Chesky, the bass notes at the beginning are clearly buzzing slightly (as if the speakers were being slightly overloaded.) This is over speakers and from the headphone jack as well. It isn't audible as noise without signal and higher frequencies are not affected. Test tones below say 200 Hz are also audibly affected. Does it reflect the difference in the 2 sweeps with EQ on and off? EQ on shows a hump in THD between 40 and 200 Hz, but still that's only around .02% at 100Hz... doesn't seem reasonable.

We now have 2 parties who can't reproduce what I'm hearing, so I will post a before/after recording of the output.
I'm just trying to avoid the expense and bother of sending the unit to Outlaw to be told it's functioning ok.
Thanks again
Phil

Ok, last night I injected various low frequency signals from 40Hz to 80Hz, toggled between EQ on/off. I could not hear any discernible difference. I also tried listening with no signal and couldn't hear a difference.
The auto setup doesn't change the PEQ settings. Only the distance and levels.

0.02% to me isn't audible. But, that said, i am of a certain age now. So maybe it's just me. But again, 0.02% isn't audible, especially over the material being played.

strongly suggests the PEQ & the Distance/Levels DSP devices are separate.

Sure does. Separate parts of the DSP chip.

Hi all
I now hear no difference on test tones with EQ on or off. I hear a very slight degradation on the Spanish Harlem track of audiophile fame, but nowhere else.
I think the cause is a noisy environment, if moving cables and what not around affects it.
I will publish some revised measurements (balanced out) on AV Nirvana, and possibly a few seconds of that track if it doesn't break copyright.
Thanks for all the suggestions. I need to do something about my AC or EMI situation if I want to improve things here.
The 976 is a stellar product at its price point.
Phil

Sorry, just seeing this! I am selling it for $550. It is all updated and working perfect. I also am selling my 7-channel amp model 7075 for $550 if interested. Last week I did a post on both of these as well in another section on here.

$550. Sent you a PM!

Is there a replacement for the 976? All I can find on the website is a marantz av7706.

Nope.
Maybe someday, or not at all.
Who knows?

I last posted back in february 2022 about my 976 being dead for the third time, this time out of warranty. I decided to send it back again, at my expense, and quickly got it back. The outer packaging box is now *really* beat up, for having been cross border 3 times! The customs actually inspected the thing, I think they thought something was fishy with this kit travelling so much! Outlaw mentionned the HDMI board has overheated and suggested improvements on my enclosed equipement rack, which I did.

Just about 3 months lated, I woke up one day to an hazy home with that burned electronic smell. There was a 10 minutes frantic search for the "fire" until I got to the 976, which was actually still powered and normal looking, but frozen. It had put out a smoke show before dying again.... Neddless to say, that was it.

Back to searching a replacement, I found the market for mid-level pre-pro was still missing in action. Lots of 400$ receivers and lots of boutiques 5000$ pre-pro, but nothing in between. I realised that I'd have to go into the used market. Fortunately, several peoples are now replacing perfectly good gear to get in the Dolby Atmos bandwagon, which I don't need nor want. It was a question of a couple weeks to read products reviews, then find something suitable, almost locally, well a 2 hours drive. In the end, the replacement is great and actually improved the sound so much that I suspect that something was not correct with the bass management on the 976. The ergonomy, look, features, versatility, etc, are all in another league too. It should, for a product that sold new for like 3 time that of the 976!

Well, I'm really sad that Outlaw is in such a level of disarray with their offering, having only third parties pre-pro, a stereo receiver and their line of power amps and speakers. May they bounce back to fame someday!

What is it*? Please PM what you bought. Thnx
I’m confident Outlaw will if they survive the current market/economic situation.

Meanwhile Merry Christmas to all The Outlaws

I sent a PM a few days ago!

So... Anyone selling a 976?

I sold my 976 a few months ago, but I still have my 7075 7-channel amp for sale if anyone is interested.

I have a 976 with a blinking HDMI light no picture or sound I tried resetting the unit still not working . Are their any other options to try