Does the 976 support bi-amplification?

Posted by: shokubry

Does the 976 support bi-amplification? - 01/14/18 10:27 AM

I'd love to pair it with a 7 channel amp for a 5.2 setup.
Posted by: XenonMan

Re: Does the 976 support bi-amplification? - 01/14/18 01:47 PM

This seems more like an amp question. Any un-used channels on the 976 cannot be re-assigned to the L/R channels for instance. The 976 can output a channel signal which would then have to be split between two amp channels and fed to the bi-amp connections on your speakers. Since you would be bypassing the internal crossover of the speaker it would need some sort of external active crossover if for nothing else to prevent destroying the tweeters.
Posted by: shokubry

Re: Does the 976 support bi-amplification? - 01/14/18 02:26 PM

I didn't know if the Marantz AV7703 pre-pro already had those crossover provisions built in.

I assume the amplifier is pretty agnostic with respect to what it is amplifying.

http://manuals.marantz.com/AV7703/EU/EN/DRDZSYhdgqhqqn.php#DRDZMLjsxwuxfg
Posted by: XenonMan

Re: Does the 976 support bi-amplification? - 01/14/18 04:52 PM

I would doubt the AV7703 has crossovers installed because the specifics of each speaker and its impedance values are so varied. When manufacturers build speakers they take into account all the parameters of the individual speakers in the box and make a crossover that takes advantage of the strengths and avoids the weaknesses. Bi-amping your speakers puts all of that engineering in your wheelhouse for better or worse.
Posted by: mdrconsult

Re: Does the 976 support bi-amplification? - 01/15/18 12:59 PM

Actually any speaker that is setup for bi-amping, i.e. they have 4 terminals, will still use the internal crossover. The high end side will still have it own hi pass filter to remove the low frequency and vice versa for the low side. Although the 976 manual is not specific on this most processors with Balanced outputs also drive their unbalanced outputs simultaneously. Therefore I would use the balanced out put to drive the amp channel that would be attached to the low end and use the unbalanced to drive the amp channel attached to to the high end of the speaker. This should get you the Bi-amping you desire.

Now, on an entirely separate note, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. If you have a good enough amp you usually won't see any improvements when you Bi-amp. Now if your amp is under powered you might see some improvements, but that's typically not the case. I think where XenonMan was going has more do to with using active crossovers. In this case all the filters are applied prior to the amp. However, in order for this to be truly effective you would need to bypass the crossovers that are internal to your speaker. Furthermore, you will need a great deal of understanding about creating crossover circuitry, which involves knowledge of the transducers, the cabinet, the cabinet design and so on. Even in the DYI community, most people still use passive crossovers post amplification.

But hey give the Bi-amping a try. It's only a few extra cables and some time. Maybe it will be a noticeable improvement for you. Let us know what you think.
Posted by: XenonMan

Re: Does the 976 support bi-amplification? - 01/15/18 02:01 PM

MDRconsult, thanks for the clarification. The crossover scheme makes much more sense as you explained. The Outlaw amps built by ATI all have a switch to select which input (XLR or RCA) to be used. As long as the selector is in the correct position it should be a cinch to connect it as stated above. Maybe Outlaw Ben can tell us if the XLRs are always on. I suspect they are.
Posted by: kiwiaudio

Re: Does the 976 support bi-amplification? - 01/18/18 06:33 PM

" Although the 976 manual is not specific on this most processors with Balanced outputs also drive their unbalanced outputs simultaneously. "
Did anyone get a clarification on this? Im using the coaxial outputs for the 7 channels, but the XLRs for the subs, which works but doesnt exactly prove one way or the other.
If they are both hot, I could provide signal for an entire second room !!
Posted by: kiwiaudio

Re: Does the 976 support bi-amplification? - 01/18/18 07:14 PM

Well, i answered my own question. It must be a one-or-the-other deal. I ran cables from the balanced R&L to another amp and got nothing !
Anyone else try this ?
Posted by: 975 destroyer

Re: Does the 976 support bi-amplification? - 01/23/18 07:38 PM

Originally Posted By XenonMan
Since you would be bypassing the internal* crossover* of the speaker it would need some sort of external active crossover* if for nothing else to prevent destroying the tweeters.
Depends upon the speaker. Most of the Polks sold over the last 10 years came w/4 BP allowing bi-wiring or passive bi-amping, therefore, in some cases may*, not be required*.
Posted by: 975 destroyer

Re: Does the 976 support bi-amplification? - 01/23/18 07:41 PM

Originally Posted By kiwiaudio
" Although the 976 manual is not specific on this most processors with Balanced outputs also drive their unbalanced outputs simultaneously. "
the 976 drives both.
Posted by: kiwiaudio

Re: Does the 976 support bi-amplification? - 01/24/18 05:35 PM

Originally Posted By 975 destroyer
Originally Posted By kiwiaudio
" Although the 976 manual is not specific on this most processors with Balanced outputs also drive their unbalanced outputs simultaneously. "
the 976 drives both.


Didnt for me!
Im currently using the unbalanced outputs for all 7 surround channels, and balanced for the sub outs in my theater.
For another room, I tried to simultaneously use the Front L&R balanced outs, run through an ART Clean Box which converts to unbalanced, and on to another amp. I got no output !

What did you do Destroyer ?
Posted by: 975 destroyer

Re: Does the 976 support bi-amplification? - 01/25/18 09:31 PM

Kiwi: my apologies, man. I have yet to buy a 976. I've read the 976 manual twice but I don't recall reading one hasta set balanced or unbalanced. Can't fathom why it's not working for you.

Side note, coincidence really. My surround channels connect to an ART clean box. That connects to balanced connections to cables through the crawlspace to behind the couch. They connect to a DBX Driverack EXO. That drives the surround amp and the surround subs in the corners.

Again sorry. I'm out w/Influenza B so I'll spend tomorrow re-reading the manual for the above.

Tony
Posted by: 975 destroyer

Re: Does the 976 support bi-amplification? - 01/25/18 10:34 PM

Call Outlaw Cust Service.

Page 21 clearly says it ok to use a combo of balanced and unbalanced connections. Further, no mention of having to "set" balanced or unbalanced outputs during config set up. Finally, Outlaw encourages you to record* your settings*. Near the back of the manual Outlaw provided a form for just that*. No indicator on that either.
Posted by: Outlaw Ben

Re: Does the 976 support bi-amplification? - 01/26/18 11:10 AM

Yes, the Model 976 outputs audio via both RCA and XLR simultaneously. Did you read the signal selection paragraph, on page 4, for the Ultra-X13? http://pdf.outlawaudio.com/outlaw/docs/X13QSG_FinalPrint030817.pdf