From 1050 to 975

I've been running a Model 1050 since June 2000. I added a model 750 amp and started using the 1050 as a preprocessor a year or two later. I've been very happy for over a dozen years now. I eventually bought a Model 950 for a dedicated home theater in the basement, but the 1050 has been my "daily driver" for the entire dozen years. I watch TV. I watch DVD 's and BluRay's. I listen to CD's and SACD's. It's just been my very reliable and accurate sound system. I've been very happy the entire dozen years.

But now ... thanks to an amazing Christmas gift from my family ... my venerable Model 1050 has been replaced with a Model 975!

Physical setup was wonderfully simple ... four HDMI cables replaced a mix of 14 cables. No more rats nest!

Software set up and configuration ... very quick and easy. Now ... it's time to simply relax and enjoy it.

I love the video switching. I love the beautiful, clear, clean sound!

Outlaws, thank you! You've done it again!

THIS is good news! I've been using the 1050 for about 11 years now. A few years ago I paired it up with a 7125 and have been quite pleased with the results. Last year we finally got a nice big plasma and a PS3 and stepped in to the beautiful world of HD. I've run in to a couple of snags with some of the HD formats, such as a two-channel DTS track on some disc extras, that just won't play on the 1050. I had to turn off the DTS output to get it to play the audio.

I have been toying with upgrading the 1050 but with no real money to spend and no real promising candidates in the market that did what I wanted, I haven't really paid much mind. However, now that this little gem has been unleashed upon us, I'm seriously considering finally upgrading. Did you notice much difference switching to the HDMI cables? I understand that you I can't get the lossless audio using my optical connection and have been itching to hear of any 1050 owners upgrading and whether they notice any real improvement in sound.

Any other 1050 owners upgrade? What are your impressions?

I imagine that most everyone will say that, in general, there will be an improvement in perceived sound.

I believe that there is a real and noticeable improvement in multi-channel sound quality. Old DTS over optical versus DTS Master HD via HDMI? For sure.

Of course that's because of the source material - and the respective cable's ability (or not) to carry that signal.

However I would be doubtful of any claims to hear a difference in straight stereo sound quality from the same source. (For example the "CD" layer from an SACD played through optical versus HDMI.)

Bottom line: with HDMI you can get as good sound as possible using one single cable between two devices. My last "upgrade" was from the 950 to the Onkyo 886. No regrets. I imagine it would be the same for a 1050 to 975 swap - even more so given the dirt-cheap price of the 975!

It's only been a day or so and I haven't been home much of the time, so my listening has been limited (a matter of hours so far), but the 975 sure does sound nice. "Better" than my 1050? I'm not sure. But I do think it's quieter (what's the term, "lower noise floor"?). Now is that the 975 vs the 1050? Or the reduction of numerous Optical, COAX and RCA cables to just four HDMI's (less copper = less induction, less RF)? I'm not sure I'm qualified to determine that.

I have also been the happy owner of the venerable 1050 receiver, though I have been unable to afford the upgrade to a multi-channel amplifier as I have always wanted to do. And in the recent months my 1050's left channels have been shorting out at random intervals making me consider quite seriously the advantages of buying the 975/7125 combo to replace it.

A question though. I guess since you've been using the 750 amp for as long as you have it might not be something you've done in a LONG time, but how does the 1050 stack up against your 975/750 combo? Or should I ask how dramatic was the difference in sound when you paired the 750 with your 1050 so many years ago?

Logan, I don't recall there being a major sound difference when I added the 7125 to my 1050. To be fair, though, I didn't really do any A/B comparisons. My main goal in the addition was to pave the way for a future upgrade like this while I had the money to grab the amp. It certainly didn't sound worse, but if there was an improvement it was minor to my ears with my system. I remember being happy that it worked and still sounded good to me and that was all I was worried about so I didn't go any further with comparisons, etc.

A different set of ears and/or different system set up may yield different results, of course.

Thank's O.W.

I just expected there to be a fairly reasonable difference in soundstage, imaging or dynamics due to doubling your wattage per channel with the 7125. Other than making your system future compatible with a preamp processor, it seems like a steep price to pay without noticeable improvements in sound!

Just because I didn't notice a big improvement in MY system doesn't mean that there wouldn't be one in yours. I'm still using my good ol' Boston Acoustics System 9000 speakers which is by no means a high end speaker set. Perhaps something more elaborate would benefit a lot more from such an upgrade.

I also don't do a lot of critical two channel listening (which seems to be what most people focus on for performance grading). Our primary use is for movies and Netflix and with that said, I've been happy with the performance of the amp. I can't really say much beyond being happy as I just didn't do any serious A/B testing.

Remember that doubling the wattage only increases the headroom by 3db. We alomost never use the rated wattage when listening because it is just too freaking loud. I have a 7125 and a 7500 and for a few months the 7500 filled in for the 7125 with no discernable difference in sound. However I bought the 7500 to drive a set of Magnepan QR1.6 speakers because my older two channel amp was not capable of getting them to fully perform. The 7500 made a huge difference because its not straining to drive the speakers. Most speakers are rated at 85-95 DB at 1 meter with a one watt input. Every time we double the input wattage the SPL increases by 3db. So the 1050 originally had 65 watts power if I remember correctly. That means it could double the 1 watt power 6 times (65 = 2x2x2x2x2x2)or an increase of 18 db above the rated SPL of a speaker. The 7125 can increase by 21db and the 7500 about 23db. If your speakers are 92db efficient then the output at full power of the 1050 would be 110 db at 1 meter. Now factor in 5 or 7 channels each providing that SPL and it can damage your hearing. Usually we almost always use the first 10 watts of power and the rest is there for transients which never strain your amps. Bottom line is that I would not expect a big difference just changing out the amp unless the original amp was overloaded or defective in some way.

Thanks gentlemen for reminding me of the 3db gain every doubling, I had forgotten exactly how that applied. I am seriously looking at the 975/7125 combo as my 1050's left channels cut in and out at random. With my room size I would like to have the added headroom the 7125 would give me as well as future speaker upgradeability. Also because of the lack of HDMI inputs on my 1050 I've been on the fence as to whether I should replace it so that I can take advantage of the HD surround formats, and so far I've got my wife agreeing this is the best solution, especially since I've had the 1050 since 2001. I appreciate your candor and knowlege, sirs!

The 7125 is a beast and is also rated for 4 ohm speakers at 185 wpc if you need it later when you get the speaker itch.

Two weeks ... and I just love the 975/750 combo! Very quiet! Very clean sound! Simple and clean source switching (via HDMI). I love it!

Am I hearing a major difference over the venerable 1050/750 combo? No, I don't think I can say it's a "major" difference. But I do think the 975 is quieter (lower noise floor?) which lets me listen at lower volumes and yet the audio is cleaner and easier to discern. I've detected NO distortion at higher volume levels. I can't put numbers to it, but my ears tell me the 975 is a nice evolutionary step up from the 1050.

Thanks Pat, this is definately the information I need to help me make my mind up. Just curious, what is the volume of the room you currently have your 975/750 setup in? I have my HT in a 19' deep x 22' wide x 9' (average) heigh vaulted ceiling living room. That's roughly 3762 cu/ft. and I wonder if the 7125 will fulfill my needs. I know this may be an unfair question with all variables accounted for (room construction, configuration, reflections, speaker type/sensitivities, etc..) but ignoring these important concerns, what is the size of your HT listening room?

Loganseno,

It's in the "living room" half (24x12?) of the Great Room (24x24?). You can get an idea of the space by looking at the web page I put together for my family to follow along as i was refinishing it: http://www.sklenar.info/house_great_room.html

I'm using the original Outlaw Audio Model 750 (5x165w) amplifier and a pair of Onix Rocket model RS750 speakers.

My southern system is in a great room which is open to the living room, family room and kitchen which is at least 10000 feet volume. The 7125 feeds a 5.1 systems using Klipsch speakers about 96 db efficient. The 7125 has no problem making enough SPL to make it painful in that room if needed. Bear in mind that some owners are reporting that the 975 seems to be volume limited. I am not sure if it is related to set up or some other factors but remember that Outlaw has a 30 days in home tryout period.

Great information guys! Pat, your layout is very similar to mine (minus the mini bar/kitchen?). XenonMan, damn brother sounds like you got a couple smokin' systems out there! I'm using a pair of old Sony SS-K90ED towers @ 89 dB for my main channels, I'm either rebuilding my center using an identical tweeter to the towers or buying a Def Tech Mythos 3 center, and surround duty has been served by two old Sony 5 1/4" bookshelf speakers that I may try my hand at building a pair of 3-way di-pole surrounds with and a pair of 4" cubes for the back channel. Not terribly sophisticated, I know, but budget is king, so thank God for Parts Express!

They are not so smokin state of the art and I have spent a long time in acquiring the pieces. They are very serviceable but I will eventually have to combine the systems into one unit when I sell my Florida home and then I will have a beast of a system. 12.2 channels of sound and I will add a projector to the mix in a room specifically designed for a theater setting on one end and a music setting on the other.