Model 975 Shipments

...have begun!

We are happy to report that we have begun shipping reservation orders for our Model 975 AV Processor. Please understand that it will take us a little while to get through all of the reservations. Therefore, we request that you do not call and ask us where you are in the queue...truth be told, it really will slow us down!

Once your reservation order ships, we will email both your invoice and your tracking numbers so that you'll know when to anticipate delivery. Until then, have a great weekend and holiday season!

OH Happy Day....

I got mine this morning!!

Got mine also. Been too busy watching and listening to post anything.

I played a bit with the video scaling trading off my Panasonic Blu-Ray with the 975 scaling and got to where I thought I had noticable improvment. I asked the boy if he thought the picture looked better with the new system and he said "No, it doesn't look better, just clearer". So there it is.

The sound is crystal clear also. I've spent more time enjoying than evaluating. The system has been on about 7 hours straight. I've probably got time for a couple more movies tonight. Will post more later.

Got mine as well but had to work so not much time to play yet.
Set up basically is about all.

Hi guys, the web browser kept locking up on me yesterday, so if some kind soul can delete my extra posts, I'd appreciate it...

I unboxed the 975, it looks very nice, sleek and classy...

I'm connecting everything later today, I'll drop back by with my thoughts and comments.

mine will be here friday :toot:

Saw EEman's detailed feedback in his other thread, but no one else seems to have made any comments.

What do you guys think of your 975s so far?

The unit sounds great and VERY simple to use. The video signal is exceptional! The build quality is excellent - it looks very similar to an NAD or Cambridge Audio platform.

Two minor issues:
1) I'm having a grounding problem (hum in front speakers). I only get when the HDMI signal is routed thru the 975. I hate to use the old "cheater-plug" trick with my surge unit, but I may have to.
2) The 975 is restricting the volume some how. When I turn the 975 all the way to max, it's not as loud as it should be. I'm hoping a simple setting - I could not find.
I'm going to contact Scott on Monday. I'm hoping both simple fixes.

Is the HDMI issue the same for any of them (BD, STB), or is it maybe just from an HTPC? Does the power amp use a grounded power cord?

When you calibrated the speakers, where did the gain trims come out? Are there any that are very low? Might seem silly, but could try shifting all of them up by 6 dB to see if that helps.

1) Is the HDMI issue the same for any of them (BD, STB), or is it maybe just from an HTPC? Does the power amp use a grounded power cord?
YES. IT DOES. I SWITCHED MY MC352 W/GROUNDED CORD TO ONE OF MY MC7100 NON-GROUNED CORDS - PROBLEM SOLVED.

2) When you calibrated the speakers, where did the gain trims come out? Are there any that are very low? Might seem silly, but could try shifting all of them up by 6 dB to see if that helps.
GAINS ARE CRANKED. STILL NOT VERY LOUD AT ALL AT "MAX" VOLUME. REALLY STRANGE - I'M THINKING IT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE INTERFACE OF THE 975 AND MY AT&T U-VERSE BOX. MY PIONEER SC-25 RECEIVER I WAS USING FOR PROCESSING DUTIES HAD NO ISSUES. BTW, I'M USING A OPTICAL AUDIO OUTPUT (I HAVE A PROJECTOR) FROM THE AT&T BOX TO INPUT #1 ON THE 975.

Well, it is not recommended to cheat the ground in case there is an electrical problem in the amp. But it may not be easy to solve any other way.

Maybe it doesn't seem loud because of all the SHOUTING?

What surround mode are you using? Does the loudness change if you try different modes?

Do you have an SPL meter and any calibration discs, like a DVD with THX Optimizer, the AIX test BD, a Disney disc with audio setup tones? If so, would be useful to see what volume setting gives a 75 dB SPL reading.

Also, would be good if you could report all the channel gain trim settings.

You didn't happen to put the 975 in "Night" mode did you?

J Wags: Did you ever get any resolution on the low volume issue?

My 975/750 combo isn't nearly as loud as it should be, based on the system's previous performance with an Outlaw 950, then a Marantz SR5007 used as a preamp. This is on all sources, connected via HDMI.

Before speaker calibration, the maximum output setting on the 975 volume control was 0dB.

I used the 975 test tones to set the trims, which ranged from -2dB to +7dB.

The 975's volume control then only went up to -7dB before the display said Max Volume. So a 7dB increase in the trims triggered a corresponding 7dB decrease in the maximum available volume level.

I then tried to increase the overall level by bumping the trims up an additional 3dB (they max out at +10dB).

This additional 3dB increase in the trims resulted in another 3dB decrease in the maximum volume setting, which was now -10dB before hitting Max Volume.

There appears to be a hard limit to the output level (so you can't use the trims to cheat the output higher) and it's significantly below what I'm used to.

The 975 is not in night mode.

I can do more testing with the Disney WOW and DVE discs tomorrow.

So how loud was it before you set the speaker trims, when it went to "0"?

With all channel trims at 0, a -30dB setting on the 975 volume control produces a 75dB test tone from the 975.

The same -30dB volume setting produces a 60dB test tone from the Disney WoW Blu-ray. Cable box and Apple TV sources seem roughly the same.

Sounds good. About the same for me.


That's right. Those signals are recorded at -20dBFS, so to get them to 85 dB SPL (Reference Level), the volume would be set to -5. That is very loud, so I normally back it down 10-15 dB below reference.

ampeg66, are you satisfied with the volume output with your 975/750 combo with your Paradigm 11 speakers? I have a 950/750 combo with B&W CM4 speakers as mains which are slighty less efficient than your Paradigms. I have been waiting for years for this replacement for my 950 but the volume issue you have has caused me not to purchase a 975 as of now.

I should be able to do comparison testing Monday or Tuesday between the 975 and the Marantz. Just got busy and haven't had a chance yet.

Based on this thread and opening a ticket with Outlaw, it appears the 975 is functioning as it should.

For reference, the efficiency on the Monitor 11 is 94dB room/91dB anechoic.

Output from the 975 with my Blu-ray player and Apple TV is fine. Definitely enough for movies, and maxes out around 98-100dB average output level when I need to crank up some music. I don’t listen that loud for hours on end, but I’m a bass player, and sometimes you just gotta have that thump. :-)

My problem is that with the cable box/DVR - my primary daily viewing source - the system maxes out at 77dB average at the listening position (12 feet from mains in a 13’ x 21’ room).

It’s most bothersome when watching concerts. Soundgarden, Rush, Foo Fighters, Austin City Limits...it’s just not an involving experience at that volume. I tested several recordings from different channels, and I tried both HDMI and coax with the same results.

So the DVR volume isn't really workable for concert viewing, it’s OK for casual tv/movie viewing, and it doesn’t quite get there for critical movie viewing. (To be fair, I don’t do much critical movie viewing on cable, but I DO watch a lot of concerts.)

By comparison, with the DVR source, the 950 produces a 90dB level with a 0dB volume setting, with an additional 10dB of gain still available.

And the Marantz SR5007 produces an 80dB level with a 0dB volume setting, with an additional 18dB of gain still available.

So my issue seems to be that my two previous processors either offer more gain to start with, or offer enough boost to compensate for the lower source level coming from the DVR, while the 975 doesn’t provide a way to get the output level up where it needs to be.

I have to weigh that against my issues with the 5007: It’s a big waste of space, it runs VERY warm even though I’m just using it as a preamp, and it’s got a random black crush video problem that I can’t track down. I've been waiting through the 978/998/997 development as well, so I REALLY want the 975 to work for me...

Depending on your sources, the 975 could work great in your system. I’m not seeing anyone else having any volume issues. With Outlaw’s return policy, it’s probably at least worth a try for you.

Is it possible the cable box is defective or has an adjustment to increase its output?

The SA8300HD configures the audio output of the HDMI port ONCE the first time it is hooked up to a device. So if you had it hooked up to your TV then moved it to your Home Theater the HDMI audio output my not be set properly.

Here's a link to the user's manual I pulled that info out of. It also explains how toget in and manually reset the HDMI port.
SA8300 User Manual

Hope this helps...

Thanks, guys, all input is appreciated. Believe me, I've been looking for any settings anywhere in the chain that might help. :-)

The DVR seems fine with the other two processors. It's odd that the output is notably hotter from the 950. My other DVR is dead, but I'll check the replacement when I get it and see if it's the same.

It looks like I have a later cable software version than what's in that manual. There are three settings in the Audio Coding menu: HDMI, Dolby Digital and PCM. When using HDMI for audio, neither of the other settings produces sound. I also tried connecting via coax and setting the coding to Dolby Digital and PCM, but the output level stayed the same.

When you are hearing TV sound, does the 975 report it as Dolby Digital? If so, check to see if the Nite mode on.

There is no reason the cable's DD audio should be any softer than a DVD (well, not during the train crash on Super8). What do you find for volume using DD DVDs?

The 975 does display DD 3/2.1 or 2/0, depending on the signal from the cable box. Night Mode is off.

Let me pop in a DVD here...the only music disc I can find is Alice in Chains Unplugged. (I'm testing with music content as it maintains a more consistent level than dialog.)

Even though it's a quieter acoustic performance, it's still averaging in the low 90s, with peaks around 95-96dB. So it seems pretty equivalent to the Blu-ray output.

If you want to do a definitive test use pink noise with both processors and measure the difference. You can download a test signal from many sources.

I ran the Disney WoW audio test tones with these results. I stopped at 100dB on the other two processors as that was stupid loud for a test tone, and both had lots of headroom left (the 950 volume control goes to +10dB and the 5007 goes to +18dB).

975: -7dB (max volume) = 90dB output
950: -2dB volume control setting = 100dB output
5007: -5dB volume control setting = 100dB output

The 975 result is similar to your earlier test when the MV was at -30. Here, you are able to play an "85 dB" test tone at 90 dB. That's theatrical ref level +5 dB.

The cable box is not defective because it is dutifully passing through the DD bitstream it receives. It cannot modify the levels in a bitstream.

Even though you normally use cable, do you have any OTA signals available? If you can get a network channel from a TV tuner (via S/PDIF) and compare the same channel from the STB, you can verify whether the STB is outputting the "normal" audio loudness or not.

Broadcast TV average audio is modulated much the same as other sources. If it seems to be 20 dB low on peaks, part of that may be due to TV programs having much lower peak-to-average range in the mix. But if you switch to a PPV or HBO movie, the full peaks should be present like on a DVD.

If, in the end, you really want more gain in the 975, give Outlaw a call and see if they have any ideas.

It seems odd the the 975 max volume setting doesn't go to at least 0 db. Most go to at least +10db.

In reading the manual on page 36 it seems that the 975 has some sort of limiter at "0" db where even if you increase the trim the max volume decreases the same amount. Have you tried swapping the HDMI input for the cable box to another and see if it makes a difference.

There is no limiter. The volume and trim controls are performed in the same volume control chip (as is the case with most AV processors). The maximum output happens at 0 dB. If a trim control asks for 6 dB gain, it takes 6 dB away from the volume range on all the channels so the total in the +6 channel remains 0 dB thru the volume IC.

So... If one channel is boosted significantly it could affect the max output of the whole 975? I guess I haven't run into this before because I haven't boosted any channel significant enough to affect overall volume. I don't suppose it would function in the opposite direction if you cut a channel significantly would it boost overall output?

No. Let's say you ran the test noise and all but one channel came out at 75 dB, and one was 70 dB. You have two choices: a) raise the gain 5 dB on one channel, or b) lower the gain 5 dB on all the others. Either way they all match.

However, the volume control display does not represent the same playback loudness in both cases. In case a) a given volume setting will be 5 dB louder than it will be in case b). No matter, it's only numbers. And when you crank the volume to max, it will stop at "-5" on case a) and at "0" in base b). But the SPL will be the same in both cases.

Not if the reason for the cut is to bring speakers into balance with at least one speaker at trim = 0 or greater. But if you set all the trims to -10, then you will reduce max volume 10 dB because the system will only go up to 0 and stop, rather than go up to +10.

So if anyone is applying attenuation to every speaker to balance the system, that will reduce max volume. Best to increase all of them by the same amount, until at least one speaker trim is at 0.