Outlaw Model 1070

Small picture of the 1070 for viewing on page 48 of Stereophile's Ultimate AV, October 2004. Some comments on features (65 x7, Digital and analog BM, DVI switching to name a few)and pricing <$1000. Also a mention of the Model 790.

[This message has been edited by harp795 (edited September 07, 2004).]

Speaking of the 1070, when are we going to hear more about it? I understand that since the 950 release date fiasco that a release date can't be given, but the thing I'm most interested in finding out now, is a more exact price, and maybe some more specs for it as well.

We know that Outlaw expects development to run through the remainder of the year, with initial shipments not likely to occur before New Year's Eve. Based on that, I would not expect to hear anything more than a brief "still working on it" note before October. Final pricing and a detailed list of specs could appear as soon as Halloween and probably won't show up much after Thanksgiving, if I had to guess.

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gonk -- 950 Review | LFM-1 Review | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | Saloon Links

What gonk said. I wouldn't be surprised if it was closer to Thanksgiving that we see some more info. Real info, not just leaked tidbits. Halloween to Thanksgiving, really.

Just want to say - saw the pics, and it looks great. This is one nice looking unit. Outlaws, you did yourselves proud. I bet it works as good as it looks. You even fixed the volume knob!

Every cosmetic and functional issue I had with my 1050 looks to be addressed, and then some. Very very impressive. Now, back to work - get them ready to ship.

What is the Model 790?

7x300W amp with unbalanced and balanced inputs. Big beast...

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gonk -- 950 Review | LFM-1 Review | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | Saloon Links

So, any updates on the 1070? I've been waiting patiently... ;-)

TELL ME SOMETHING, please please please please oh please. This wait is killing me.

You know, I think I need to start a support group. I'm Robert & I have a major problems waiting for things.

Hi, Robert.


Sorry, though, I haven't seen any new word yet. Newsletters tend to land around trade shows and holidays, though, so if I had to guess when we next hear something official it'll most likely be between December 24 and January 3. If they wait until after that window, they're most likely aiming for an internal milestone of some sort.

(The above dates are wholly supposition on my part and may bear no resemblance to reality. Your mileage may vary, so on and so forth...)

As far as I know, any delay in releasing the 1070 for order or preorder would be that Outlaw has a very high regard for releasing a quality product. Outlaw still has remnants of the early 950 'hiss' issue brought up now and then. Outlaw is likely being very careful to test every aspect of the early production models to make sure that the manufactured product will perform as well as their design engineers intend. I'm sure that Outlaw wants to be very, very confident in the 1070 before any shipments of this product begin.

Believe me, I totally understand why they are waiting to give us information (and a release date)! But, that doesn't help the pain. In the past (3) weeks, I've had (2) new Yamaha receivers, (2) H/Ks, and (1) new Pioneer at my house... The stores are hating me right now. But, I'm tring to soothe myself until the Outlaws take care of it ;-)

-robert

Personally, I think the Outlaws are a bit slow on the draw. 4years is a long time in-between models, too long in the world of consumer electronics. And with the projected 900-1,000$ price tag, that would be almost twice the price tag of the previous model(1050). I am going by the afore mentioned 'to be under $1,000.' in a previous newsletter.

Four years is a long time by the standards of industry giants like Yamaha, Panasonic, Pioneer, or Denon since they typically operate on a "model year" structure, but for smaller companies like Outlaw, Rotel, Sherwood, etc., it is not particularly unusual. In many cases, large manufacturers take an existing design and tweak it a bit to create a new model for a new model year, with major changes occuring only every three or four years. Smaller companies more often keep an existing design on the market for several years, saving them production retooling costs (it also makes their buyers feel less "behind the times" when their model is replaced after ten months by a model with one new feature). The development time and money involved in this stuff is significant, all the moreso for smaller designers.

The price tag, which I suspect will land just shy of $1000 (although I suppose they might surprise us and come in around $900), is about 40% more than the Model 1050's original price of $599 - the 1050 price was dropped to $499 after it had been on the market for about a year, similar the price drop on the 950 after a year. Considering some of the differences in the two products, I think that price difference is not surprising - the 1070 will sport component switching with video upconversion (the 1050 had no component switching at all), 65W of power for seven channels with all seven driven at once (the 1050 had 65Wx6, with up to three driven to 65W at once), and DVI switching, to name a few differences.

I agree with Gonk on the differences of the business models. However, the Outlaws are not reinventing the wheel here. Every feature previously mentioned for the 1070 is currently available, and DVI is old technology. HDMI is shipping on practically every video source and display. I can wait, as I plan to use the 1070 as
a Pre/Pro, I only wish it would have Main In jacks to complement the Pre Outs

I'm buying the 1070 based on my experiences w/ the 1050 & their reputation, mainly. What I wonder is this... What are the features that are really going to set this receiver apart from other receivers in the $750-1000 arena? DVI switching only? This doesn't seem like a large selling point to me as HDMI is THE standard that will be around for a while. I believe we'll see sub 1k receivers w/ HDMI switching by next Christmas - nobody will want something that only does DVI then... If DVI switching is not THE reason to buy this unit - what is? I guess what I'm getting at is this... What sets this unit apart from receivers like the 3805, rx-v2500, hk630, etc.?

If it's like the 1050, one big factor will be sound quality - not something that shows up on a feature "laundry list," unfortunately, but one that matters nonetheless and one that kept the 1050 popular for a number of years. Another factor will be customer support and service. Will there be any others? We won't know until we see a final feature list. Even then, we won't really know what the real "key benefits" are until we start hearing from people who actually have 1070's in place and running.

I'm still amazed that people forget this. More features does not automatically mean better sound quality. Outlaw is not reinventing the wheel, but they are creating their own design of it. You don't just slap components together like they're Legos and call it a day.

[/qb][/QUOTE]I'm still amazed that people forget this. More features does not automatically mean better sound quality. Outlaw is not reinventing the wheel, but they are creating their own design of it. You don't just slap components together like they're Legos and call it a day. [/QB][/QUOTE]

I'm still amazed that people forget this. More features does not automatically mean poorer sound quality

It is always possible to combine a lengthy feature list and really good sound quality, and it's always cool when it happens, too. But I think JT Clark's point is that (and pardon me while I state the obvious ) a feature list alone does not make a product great. In fact, beefing up the feature list can sometimes take attention and resources away from the sound quality. People also may tend to decide which product is better because Model "A" has an extra gadget that Model "B" lacks, even if Model "B" may be superior in some other way.

A truly great audio product has an appropriately broad range of features to satisfy the demands placed on it plus great sound.

No one is saying that.

Thank you!

Gonk and JT,

I could continue with this crap, but it is not worth our time.

I'm not opposed to features, bud. It's people's misconceptions about them. I think we can all agree to get what sounds the best to you.

I agree with most of you, and appreciate the comments regarding this. I guess it will come down to personal preference when the 1070 comes out. I am hoping for a large WOW factor from the 1070 - feature set & sound. Hopefully something will stick out and make it worth my wait. But, if not, there are plenty of fish in the sea I suppose.

-robert

Anyone know if the 1070 is going to have pre-out main-in jacks? I hope I hope I hope ......

The I/O is fairly well known, thanks to some pictures (by both desperado and psklenar ) from the HE Show in New York where it was announced. Of course, Outlaw could have made changes to this layout, but I doubt they would be deviating much at this point. Based on those pictures, there will be pre-amp outputs (of course) but no main-in jacks.

i think that outlaw is/has developed a client base with lower priced high-quality offerings, but in the years to come we will find them being more and more expensive... i mean, they are in business to make money... i have seen this model played out by several internet companies, and while i am disappointed, there will always be another company to fill the void.

seeing as the 1070 will be double (almost) the price, we should expect it to be twice as good? not likely...

Well it's not like the twice the price, but not quite twice as good would be a new thing in this business, now would it?

Charlie,

Do you mean analog inputs? Like the 8 associated with the DVD input?

Look to the right of the radio connections, above the DVD input, there are 6 additional analog inputs marked CEN, SUB, SL, SR, SBL, and SBR.

http://www.sklenar.info/images/outlaw/PICT0621.jpg

If this isn't what you meant, never mind.

Gary C

Wow, nice binding posts.

You know, it is really sad that I find myself hitting these boards, the outlaw site, avsforums, and audioholics 200+ times/day. I have waited 2 months for a new receiver and it looks like I'm down to only 1-1/2 more - hopefully...

I have a Pioneer 1014 right now - cost me $499. That thing is equivalent to the Elite 52 internally - and actually sounds REALLY nice. However, this receiver has a bug w/ the toslink & dig coax connections & won't work w/ DISH receivers or Mits DLP TVs. I'm excited to get my hands on the 1070 - it will be my first Outlaw product (hopefully followed by some interconnects & subs).

Sorry for the rambling, consider it part of a 'virtual camp-out' for the 1070.

-robert

No, I was sort of hoping for (no, I really want, actually) 6 pre-out/main-in (12 total) jacks. Makes it really nice if you want to use active crossover or other outboard processing with a receiver. I wouldn't imagine it would cost a lot. Ah, well.

Looks like pre-outs, no main-ins. I can make that work .....

What is the cluster of 6 that are at the top and a bit to the left?

Here is a real close-up picture of the rear panel. The DVD input has left and right analog channels at the bottom (just below the composite and s-video inputs) plus a cluster of six more analog inputs that appear to complete the 7.1 analog input - those (the center, sub, left and right surround, and left and right surround back) are the six I think you are looking at.

Yeah that's it. I guess I'm just not understanding the pre-out, no main-in people are talking about.

Main-in is a direct connection to the amp section in a receiver - think of it as a way to treat the receiver as a power amp, with nothing (volume control, etc.) in the path. The pre-amp outputs are typically jumpered to the main-ins for normal operation, and if necessary it is possible to put an EQ or other bit of processing in between the pre-outs and the main-ins. The 7.1 analog input goes through the volume control and some other portions of the receiver (possibly bass management, time delay, etc.).

Ah, ok. I gess I never thought of using it like that.

You can also use the pre-amp out/main-in to change how the power amp section is used. For example, if you wanted to just use 5.1 instead of 7.1 you could use the other two amps to bi-amp your front left and right mains.

Okay seriously, I know that they don't want to release too much information on it because of the 950 release date fiasco, but I'd love to see at least SOME more information on it. I'm dying for something new to replace my POS Sony receiver, and was looking at the 950 and a amp, but a receiver under 1000 would fit my budget much better lol.

Yeah, I'm having trouble with this waiting thing also. I've narrowed my search down to the H/K 635, Pioneer Elite 56, and the Outlaw 1070. My money is burning a hole in my pocket and I can't see myself waiting until the end of January for this thing. Any thoughts on any of these? At least we know the specs on the H/K - even though it's not out!

Outlaws - PLEASE...

rmeredit...

I cannot speak for the Pioneer, but a number of Outlaws (myself included) in the past have had quality issues (break downs, malfunctions, etc.) with H/K products. Perhaps H/K has turned things around since then, I don't know. Try searching the saloons for 'H/K quality'.

good things come to those who wait... have some patience.

So, any new information on the 1070? I've waited this long - I can't believe it. I have to purchase something in the next 2-3 weeks (to have it before Superbowl) - would you guys guess that the 1070 will be a possibility for me or not? If not, I'd like to pick up the 56txi & be done w/ it.

I'm in the unbearable waiting mode as well. I've had the 1050 now for 4 years and hope to get picked to beta test the 1070. Hopefully we'll get a beta tester email soon and then the official release not long after that. It's been a long wait that's for sure. Patience, patience, patience...

I picked up a Marantz SR8500 to "hold me over" until I can check out a 1070. I'd like to get my hands on both at the same time to do a comparison.

I have had my 1050 for almost 4 years also, and it still sounds like it did when I got it.....excellent!

I still don't use it's 6.1 ability(wife won't let me put ANOTHER speaker in the room!), so 7.1 is meaningless to me.

The only reason I'd have to get the 1070 is for it's analog bass management, and maybe it's slightly better amp section......oh...and maybe because it looks nicer......ummmm.....PLIIx.....headphone surround sound.....uhhh....er....

Oh, never mind :rolleyes:

Yes, but for those of us without the 1050, the wait is impossible lol. Just think, instead of your 1050, I'm stuck here waiting with a Sony POS.

I am going to wait to the end of March, if we haven't heard anything by then there has to be a problem, and then I think I'll buy a Denon Receiver. I really wanted to make the jump to seperates, but my receiver is dying (Yamaha not Outlaw) and I can't afford the pre/pro and amplifier at one shot. If my receiver was working okay, I'd jump on the amplifier B Stock sale and then wait for the next model of the 950, which I assume will incorporate all the functionality of the 1070.

Ya, it's gettin rough isn't it. Talk about edgy.. I had jumped the gun and put my 1050 up for sale back in Sep/Oct when I heard about the 1070. Hooked the dvd player straight to the Toshiba and been patiently waiting. Even my 8 year old is sticking tight beside me as he won't let me watch any of the new dvd's he/we got for Christmas till I get the "surround sound" fixed. That's killer. I've got an old Kenwood 2 channel amp for music but it doesn't help the HT. I'm sure it can't be long now.. I'm holding out for the 1070. Then some long awaited couch time..

Well I took my own advice and bought a B stock 7100 tonight, so now I'll be saving up for my pre-processor.

Has beta testing even begun or are is this something that can't be discussed?

Good question. Based on previous Outlaw beta tests, I assume that the beta testers are bound to secrecy until the test period is done. That means that the beta testing could very easily be in progress and we'd never know it...

Come on!!!!!!!!

I've just about sold my old H/K AVR30, one of HKs finest receivers at stereo reproduction, and am edging my NAD T742 up to the auction block just to come up with the coin to become an official Outlaw.

Give the people what they want!

I know, I know...if it ain't ready, it ain't ready, but please, please try and make it ready real soon! At least give us an owner's manual and final specs!

Ok, on a more restrained note, does anyone know how or why Outlaw came up with the 65wpc figure? Why not a healthy 90wpc? I'm just a little suprised that they're not upping the wattage from the 1050, especially given the fact that more and more competitors who have claimed say 100wpc in the past while delivering closer to 30wpc are now meeting or execeeding their claims with the latest receiver releases.

I have been planning my home theater for 12 months and actively constructing it for the past 3 months. When I saw back in Sept. 2004 that Outlaw Audio was constructing a receiver with DVI switching, I pretty much made up my mind that I would be purchasing a Model 1070 for my new system.

At this point in time, my setup is very close to being finished and the only equipment that I have yet to purchase is a receiver and a sub-woofer. I don't have a backup AV Receiver, so I'm using an old Kenwood stereo component to power my 2 front speakers.

I happen to believe that patience will pay off in this instance and I am willing to wait until the model 1070 arrives before settling on other equipment.

As one of the original beta testers of the Model 1050 way back when, I can confirm this.

Yea, I know it'll probably be a great receiver when it eventually arrives. The last I recall reading in December was a pushed-out production date of end of January and nothing since then, it'd sure be nice to hear something especially a price. If they come out with a $999 price tag, I'd move on to something else, but at $700 I'd definatly wait it out for a few more months.

I am anticipating a $999.99 price tag and hoping to get pleasantly surprised from that. The appealing feature to me is the DVI switching and to get this feature anywhere else would require $3000+.

Good things come to those who wait. I'll be patient.

Well, just to let everyone know the the Outlaw 1070 should be available this week now that I've caved in and purchased an NAD T752 (for $450 it was just too good a price).

Since I don't have any use for DVI switching (when I get an HDTV I'll be sure to get one with at least two HDMI/DVI inputs) or even 7 amplifier channels (I have a 5.1 setup) I didn't see the point in waiting it out. As far as true wpc the T752 measures 92wpc x 5 (versus the 62wpc x 5 of the Outlaw 1050) so it's got plently of real power. NAD has a nice balance of decent stereo reproduction with good home theatre sound as well. The only problem is the questionable reliability.

Having said that if the 1070 comes storming out of the gate to rave reviews and offers some non-7.1 use of the extra two amplifiers I'll probably be back to try one out.

As I posted elsewhere on this site, I think it's a pretty telling sign of the 1070's *lack* of progress that it still doesn't have a dedicated forum.

And with the recent Mid-April news letter not containing so much as a peep about the 1070 they're either waiting to unveil it at NYC in a couple of weeks or I don't know what.

Nate
RolandofGilead

I have to admit I was pretty frustrated there was no additional information on the 1070 in the April newsletter. I'm in desperate need of a reciever and have delayed my purchase decision for 5 months in hopes of getting the 1070 and it looks like I'm going to have to wait even longer.

It appears those software "glitches" are turning into "gotcha's".

Uggh.

Richard

it should be worth the wait though...

they could have sprung the 1070 on everyone like they did the 990, then you would have been disappointed that you just got something other than the outlaw that you so coveted.

Yeah, I really thought that in the newest newsletter that was released (the one that gave information on preordering the 990) they'd give more information. I guess we now know which market is more important to Outlaw: the higher-end seperates market instead of the receiver market.

Note: if this delay results in a price decrease, and its now 600 dollars or so instead of "under 1000", I take back every bad thing I said about waiting for Outlaw products.

Coveted? Yea, sounds about right.

It would have been a little harder to spring the 1070 like the 990 since the Outlaws decided to pull the 1050 off the market last year. Everyone new it was just a matter of time. Hmmm....time...time...time.

If your like me, once the purchase decision is made, you want it to happen as fast as possible.

Richard

I wish we could at least get an ESTIMATED ship date for the 1070. I mean I know all about the issues regarding the 950's ship date, but I know the product was first mentioned about 6 months ago, and I'd love to hear another update... even if its just to say not to expect the 1070 for another 6 months.

Although, what would be nice is if this delay is being used to add the USB port to the 1070 as well. My biggest hope though is that the price has to be decreased because of this delay, although I know its not likely.

Yawn! Well now that it's practically summertime, I expect the Outlaws to hold off until September and really get the bugs worked out.

If there's one thing to be said about the Outlaws, it's that there's no sense in guessing the schedule. Most expected to see this one last fall after seeing pix from the HE show last spring. And while we waited for it, the 990 comes out of left field, ready to ship.

To be sure, they are going to encounter high expectations whenever this thing finally shows up on doorsteps.

Greg,

I'm hopeful that part of the delay was to add or modify the feature set to better fit its place in the market.

In the end I'm just sad that it's taken this long. It cannot have been a fun process to discontinue a product expecting it to be replaced only to have a hole in your lineup for the better part of a year. And if they didn't want us to guess at the schedule then they never should have said anything. The intro of the 990 probably taught them a lot.

Nate
RolandofGilead

Yeah, the 1070 delays have to have been a pain for the Outlaws. Like you, I suspect that the 990's roll-out is a sign of things to come - there may still be products that they choose to announce early, but I'm wondering if we might see more new products in the future pop up right before they become available.

Isn't the key difference that the 1070 was an entirely new design unique to Outlaw, while the 990 is an upgraded clone of an already existing product? Obviously, there is a lot more that can go wrong in the first case.

And if we move to speculation, what do you think Outlaw would do if the 1070 actually sounds better than the 990 (as a pre-pro)?

I think you have hit on the most likely reason for the length of the 1070's development period: it is a new design, unlike the 990 (which is a modification of an existing piece of hardware). This means there's more hardware to develop (including a amp section, which the 990 doesn't have at all), plus more software development to deal with (although, based on the P-965 manual and comments from a couple P-965 owners, it sounds like Outlaw had a fair bit of the P-965's code revised or re-written).

Ah, speculation... If the 1070 sounded better as a pre/pro, I suspect that Outlaw would happily sell a lot of 1070's.

Aaaarrgghhh! The frustration..

Sure hope something breaks loose by the end of summer. I can't believe I have lived without a H/T receiver since last October.

There.. better now for awhile..

I've just about given up now. The new pioneer receivers WITH HDMI SWITCHING are coming out next month. I have the pioneer elite 59avi dvd player so I could hook it up using I-link to the new receiver and have hdmi switching as well. Choices, choices...

tick-tock tick-tock

It's looking like September...

I went from an NAD T742 which was excellent at music and so-so at HT to a Cambridge Audio 540R which is also excellent at music but much more sensitive to the quality of the source and as a result a lot of my older CDs don't sound that great but newer ones sound better. HT is easily superior to the NAD though, tons more power. They're both very limited as far as features go. I'm wondering if anyone has any comments on NAD vs. CA vs Outlaw and if Outlaw would be a better compromise of trying to get good music and HT. I'm thinking of perhaps getting a new reciever after an HDTV purchase if *necessary* (AV Sync is my biggest concern), after all if I get an HDTV with two or more DVI/HDMI inputs do I really need switching in the receiver?

What year?

Oh it'll be here this September, the big question is will the price be a hefty $899.

That is one feature that I need also. Is it known whether there will be a variable audio delay in the feature set?

I think the Outlaws did say that the 1070 will have some sort of audio sync "group" delay. Since the 990 has it you have to imagine that they wouldn't release the 1070 without that important feature.