Is it done yet?

Posted by: ColonelPackage

Is it done yet? - 06/01/10 05:32 PM

J/K :-)

On a more serious note, am I the only one waiting on this thing that thinks a more regular communication from Outlaw on the status of the 998 and its projected delivery date would be a good thing?

Throw us a bone, please!
Posted by: wkbhxc

Re: Is it done yet? - 06/01/10 07:43 PM

I purchased a 7700 power amp and 990 pre/processor over a year ago with the expectation that the 997 pre/processor would be available shortly.....like June 2009! I am still patiently waiting...now for the 998 pre/processor. I have lost respect for Outlaws "transparent" honesty on this matter. The end of this year for the 998 ???? I will believe it when I see it. Outlaw's announcements are like airline company's announcemnts about flight delays.
Posted by: rubbersoul

Re: Is it done yet? - 06/02/10 08:14 AM

Working in the airline business for some time I realized that no matter what you tell the consumer..the truth..they the consumer want what they want no matter what the reasons. I have seen airline employees spat upon when flights were canceled due to in-climate weather. No matter what the weather conditions were like irate consumers chanted "I want to go to Aruba"..NOW! In as much blaming the weather conditions on the airline.
I myself was very excited when I saw that Outlaw was releasing a new processor (997)however the 997 was still in the pipeline at the time Outlaw let the cat of the bag. Perhaps way to soon. I think that Outlaw did no see the internal problems that Sherwood was having with the release of their new receiver just about coinciding with the 997.
Reading posts from some people who feel let down by the Outlaws reminds me of the an old TV commercial. The kid on the "Mapo" TV ad of long ago. "I want my Mapo".
Things happen and happen for a reason. I still have faith in the Outlaw organization and believe the 998 will surpass our expectations. The 998 may even have a few surprises.
Myself, having the 990/7700 combo which is amazing and working without a hitch rings my bells every time I watch a movie or listen to my music collection.
The 998 is another toy, which if you are like myself and I think other Outlaws you have to ask the question do I really need to buy the 998. It does not matter what bells or whistles the 998 employs. What matters is whether or not you need another, bigger, better toy.
I will admit.
I have that dilemma. I also feel blessed that I am in a situation where I can afford the 998 and give up a perfectly good piece of equipment.
Posted by: Jimna

Re: Is it done yet? - 06/02/10 01:09 PM

Originally Posted By: rubbersoul

Reading posts from some people who feel let down by the Outlaws reminds me of the an old TV commercial. The kid on the "Mapo" TV ad of long ago. "I want my Mapo".
only the olds on this forum got that one. And if anyone is in a hurry its the olds, each day is closer to when their hearing goes and the fixed income stops them from buying anything.

Its a tough market out there kids, Outlaws needs to make a move before they are in the past tense. If I were them I would at least be baiting waiting customers with some info.
Posted by: tg3

Re: Is it done yet? - 06/02/10 02:28 PM

There was an earlier post on this forum (sorry, don't remember where) that suggested 'end of the year' timeframe.
Posted by: ryck

Re: Is it done yet? - 06/02/10 04:05 PM

In the "Announcements" is the post about the 998.
Posted by: gonk

Re: Is it done yet? - 06/02/10 06:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Jimna
[quote=rubbersoul]Its a tough market out there kids, Outlaws needs to make a move before they are in the past tense. If I were them I would at least be baiting waiting customers with some info.

Baiting is dangerous - there's a reason the term tends to have negative connotations when dealing with marketing. They need to find a careful balance between saying too little and saying too much. Saying too little can cost you some business, but history tells us that saying too much is more likely to cause problems in the long run so it's probably safer to err on the side of silence.
Posted by: Hank

Re: Is it done yet? - 06/02/10 10:29 PM

"On a more serious note, am I the only one waiting on this thing that thinks a more regular communication from Outlaw on the status of the 998 and its projected delivery date would be a good thing?"
"Saying too little can cost you some business, but history tells us that saying too much is more likely to cause problems in the long run so it's probably safer to err on the side of silence."

Being in the high tech electronics business, I can empathize with OA, but I must give a +1 to the first quote above, while acknowledging that the second quote's wisdom is obvious. There are a few of us original purchasers who are interested in the 998, but some of us may not be able to wait another year. OUTLAW, will it be this year?
Posted by: Ritz2

Re: Is it done yet? - 06/03/10 07:02 AM

If you need a new processor, why wait at all? There are other brands/models with similar feature sets at a wide variety of prices that are available TODAY. It doesn't really give me the warm and fuzzies to have something with a faceplate that sorta matches my Outlaw amp, but perhaps some people will wait longer and pay more for the comfort of dealing with a familiar vendor.

Best,
Posted by: Hank

Re: Is it done yet? - 06/03/10 12:14 PM

I'm not asking which month or quarter it will be available - just which year.
Posted by: ColonelPackage

Re: Is it done yet? - 06/03/10 05:44 PM

Originally Posted By: gonk

Baiting is dangerous - there's a reason the term tends to have negative connotations when dealing with marketing. They need to find a careful balance between saying too little and saying too much. Saying too little can cost you some business, but history tells us that saying too much is more likely to cause problems in the long run so it's probably safer to err on the side of silence.


Agreed, it's a very treacherous path but given the history I think erring on the side of silence is exactly the thing not to do. I probably remember to check in here about once every couple of weeks. Every time that I do and there isn't any news or updates on 998, my gut tells me something is wrong. Call it conditioning.

I'm sure there are marketing gurus out there who would say otherwise but I think some sort of progress report, even if it isn't all great and wonderful news, is better than a total absence of information. It would give us all something to think about, including the skeptics who will otherwise feast on the silence.

Just my 2 cents.
Posted by: rubbersoul

Re: Is it done yet? - 06/03/10 06:52 PM

"I probably remember to check in here about once every couple of weeks. Every time that I do and there isn't any news or updates on 998, my gut tells me something is wrong."

Colonial I might be in agreement with you if we were not that Scott's March 26th announcement about the 998 has not even been three months.
I am not saying anything other than I think we should have some patience.
If indeed some one out there is in need of a processor there are many varieties to choose and from many good companies with top end products.
Also there are a varity of outlets, Home and Audio stores, E-Bay, Audiogon, Best Buys and the list goes on.
Like I wrote in an early post having the 990 is a good thing and I am please everytime I turn the sucker on. My neighbors are jealous, my friends are jealous, my family is jealous, hell my wife is jealous.
I am still looking forward to Outlaws' take on the 998. Regardless of when it happens. I for one are not in a rush.
Posted by: scoooter

Re: Is it done yet? - 06/04/10 07:22 AM

I'm ready if you need someone to do beta testing :0
Posted by: gonk

Re: Is it done yet? - 06/04/10 09:29 AM

Originally Posted By: ColonelPackage
Agreed, it's a very treacherous path but given the history I think erring on the side of silence is exactly the thing not to do. I probably remember to check in here about once every couple of weeks. Every time that I do and there isn't any news or updates on 998, my gut tells me something is wrong. Call it conditioning.

I must be conditioned differently. I don't see a reason to assume that silence must equate to problems. OPPO Digital was very quiet (some would say painfully so) on development of their first Blu-ray player. For a long time (right up until the format war ended), they were very non-committal on their plans. Throughout the first eight months of 2008, they remained vague whenever anyone asked. Then a sample of the BDP-83 showed up in ABT's booth at CEDIA in 2008, they shipped 350 EAP samples six months later, and they started selling to the general public a couple months later. Was their silence a sign of trouble? Doesn't seem like it, since the BDP-83 has become the reference player for many people and could be considered one of the most popular standalone BD players produced to date.

Originally Posted By: ColonelPackage
I'm sure there are marketing gurus out there who would say otherwise but I think some sort of progress report, even if it isn't all great and wonderful news, is better than a total absence of information. It would give us all something to think about, including the skeptics who will otherwise feast on the silence.

Just my 2 cents.

I'd suggest we look at history. When Outlaw was developing the Model 950, they offered regular reports on progress. These typically included some sort of schedule. When delays occurred, people got angry. In time, they forgot, but it was a brutal launch for Outlaw. When Outlaw announced the Model 997 in October 2008, the Sherwood receiver it was to be based on was already more than 12 months late based on its original public release date (CES 2007 promised a fall 2007 launch). The Sherwood took another year or more to come to market, and it arrived in a form that clearly needed more work. Sherwood has been badly embarrassed and Outlaw was forced to pull the plug rather than give their customers a product they didn't feel comfortable with. When Emotiva started developing the UMC-1 (then called the LMC-2), they offered regular reports with promises of a close release date. They did that for years, and the product was postponed roughly 24 months before the first units shipped to customers. It arrived buggy and seemingly very rushed. People got angry. Compare those to the Model 990, which appeared out of nowhere. That was probably Outlaw's most successful product launch, and it came with no advance discussion.

That brings us back to the Model 998. We've been given a preliminary feature set and an indication that it could be ready as soon as late this year. That initial announcement was certainly related to the fact that they'd had to scrap the 997. Now that they've said something, though, what do they do next? If they come back and report something every two weeks or even every four weeks, what will they say? They can't post code or block diagrams or wiring diagrams. It'd be cool, but it's not practical to ask for. Anything they offer right now is likely to be hollow chest-thumping, and even if they were sailing along ahead of schedule they'd be crazy to try to offer any more specific details on availability unless they were very close to launch. There will always be skeptics and critics - it's part of life, doubly so on the internet. Regular reports wouldn't prevent them from suggesting there are problems, and reports that offer little new information will likely just make their job easier. After two or three reports that said roughly the same thing ("We're working on the hardware and firmware, the team is making good progress, and we've found and addressed a few problems"), those skeptics would have a field day over the project's perceived lack of progress.

I've got two projects on my desk right now. Both will be issued to contractors fairly soon - one in a couple weeks, the other in about a month and a half. The work I've done on them so far is important stuff, but if I showed it to a building owner he would have no idea what any of it meant and he would be underwhelmed by my work. He might even feel that the schedule was impossible to meet because the engineer hadn't "done anything" yet. That's why I don't give a building owner weekly or monthly status reports on my design - it would distract me from doing my job, and it wouldn't help the building owner. We meet and discuss specific details, and we issue a couple of progress packages, but even on a really large project that takes a year or more to design there may be only a handful of meetings and a few progress printings. Designing a product like a surround processor is very different in some ways, but in others I think there are some very real parallels.
Posted by: redman6

Re: Is it done yet? - 06/04/10 02:34 PM

the term watch this comes to mind, talking about the 998..

I give it another 6-24 month's..
Posted by: ColonelPackage

Re: Is it done yet? - 06/04/10 06:16 PM

Originally Posted By: gonk
Originally Posted By: ColonelPackage
Every time that I do and there isn't any news or updates on 998, my gut tells me something is wrong. Call it conditioning.

I must be conditioned differently. I don't see a reason to assume that silence must equate to problems.


To be fair, I didn't say that my gut is always right. :-) When I mentioned history I was being pretty specific. I'd latched onto the concept of the 997 and waited in vain with everybody else through the sort of information blackout there towards the end.

While I mostly agree with your points regarding status updates. I think progress can be communicated in ways that don't require schematics and bills of materials. Since a preliminary feature set was communicated, one milestone to report on could be the final feature set. Another milestone that I think average person can get hyped up about is when Beta-Testing commences. Why announce a product like this if you aren't prepared to manage the consumer's anticipations, expectations and perceptions? If there's that much risk in their schedule, it sure seems like it'd be a whole lot less painful for Outlaw if they just kept something like this secret until it was ready to manufacture minus two weeks.

Since they let the cat out of the bag, I'd get a "feel good" out of just seeing a placeholder for it on their website.
Posted by: gonk

Re: Is it done yet? - 06/04/10 06:47 PM

I agree with that - don't know when they might be at a good milestone to offer an update, but one or two intermediate reports during the course of development would be fun to see.
Posted by: redman6

Re: Is it done yet? - 06/06/10 06:28 AM

we all would like to see the update process more frequently though I doubt it will happen that way, my guess a status update every 3-6 month's if we're lucky just to keep people interested in the product if it ever gets of the preproduction sample table..
Posted by: NRBQLou

Re: Is it done yet? - 06/06/10 12:22 PM

Every project has critical milestones, and project completion is always going to be monitored, at least in part, by the achievement of these milestones and their adherence to schedule. I think that without having to divulge many details (in fact, we don't even necessarily need to get into the minutiae of what these milestones are), Outlaw can easily give us a progress report via this forum, even if it adjusts the ultimate delivery date. Anyone ever involved in project management knows that dates slip, sometimes out of anyone's control (997 anybody?), but I also think that the readers on this forum are savvy enough to understand that, and would welcome any information that gives them a better idea as to how their expectations need to be adjusted. Let's face it, we're all kind of HT/Audio geeks out here, and we love this kind of stuff...
Posted by: bstar320

Re: Is it done yet? - 06/09/10 04:43 AM

Hmmm I do want to wait but I have a chance to purchase an Onkyo Txnr5007 for 1100, but I prefer a pre/pro. Not in that big a hurry, but this offer has a end of month deadline. If I knew the 998 would be available this year I would wait, but with the lack of any more info I may be using the Onk as a pre/pro by next month.



ED
Posted by: rubbersoul

Re: Is it done yet? - 06/09/10 10:49 AM

I do understand your thought and reasoning about the lack of information about the 998. Deals are plentiful out there. Good deals.
I was tempted with the Integra DHC 9.9. Demo model, full warranty, $1200. No tax.
I have the 990/7700 and love my system.
That being said I fine myself always interested in stepping up to the next level. Call it a sickness, a disease. I don't care. I love home audio. I love the home theater experience. I love the idea of having friends and family over and listening to there experience that they have in my home theater and the desire to have the same experience in there home.

I am holding out. I will have more patience.
In my situation which is not one of need I can wait.

Good luck bstar320 whatever you decide.
Posted by: Retep

Re: Is it done yet? - 06/11/10 02:03 PM

Have the specifications been finalized and/or are they allowing scope creep?
Posted by: NRBQLou

Re: Is it done yet? - 07/26/10 09:21 PM

Four + months since the announcement, and not another word...
Posted by: XenonMan

Re: Is it done yet? - 07/31/10 04:43 PM

Its the beginning of August and the 998 progress is a mystery to everyone. At this point we should be able to get some update as to the status of the 998. It would be nice to know if the price has stayed close to the 997 and if the feature set is still as described or if it has changed.
Posted by: redman6

Re: Is it done yet? - 08/01/10 02:40 PM

it looks like a ghost whisper at present no real updates to speak of since press release for announcement, only time will tell to see if and/or when the 998 will be released, they are being tight lipped about it..
Posted by: aeroguy

Re: Is it done yet? - 08/01/10 06:02 PM

Scott said in his May 18 communique that it would be towards the end of the year. That leaves four months for the Outlaws to produce.
Posted by: redman6

Re: Is it done yet? - 08/02/10 07:51 AM

you would think they would of had a progress update by now, since it is now august, it would be interesting to find out where they are with the product...

instead of hearing jack squat for 3 month's..

it's all fine and dandy saying a expectant release date towards the end of the year, though it is still nice to know where they are in regards to features the unit will and won't have..

them being quiet about a new product makes you wonder whether it is another smoke and mirrors release, given the issues with 997...
Posted by: bstar320

Re: Is it done yet? - 08/20/10 01:41 PM

Well I didn't do the onkyo thing. I used my brothers Onkyo txr807 receiver in place of my 990 and just couldn't get use to the sound. Wow what a diff. I found the Onkyo overly bright and a bit bass heavy. Not horrible but not as refined as the Outlaw. I didn't run the Audyssey so I don't know if that would have made a difference, I simply used two channel stereo and the Onkyo as a preamp. I then tried a Denon Avr-3310ci as a preamp and wow it did sound a bit smoother but very similar to the onkyo. I got such a deal on the Denon from BB I may just keep it and give it to my baby sister once I get her a set of Viennas for passing the bar first try. (I'm so proud). Anyway I will wait until Jan for the 998 then I may buy the Marantz or other pre/pro that still sound great on 2 channel. I WANT MY OUTLAW !!!
Posted by: jacket_fan

Re: Is it done yet? - 08/20/10 10:32 PM

Gentlemen,

I recall when the 950 came out. I checked this forum almost daily for news. Drove me nuts and I got frustrated and angry. It may be another 3 months before any announcements are made. And the product release may not be before the end of the year. Stay calm. Don’t let it get you frustrated and angry. I laugh at how obsessed I got over something like the release of a piece of electronics. I am certain all involved in this project are doing the best that they can to complete this unit. I suspect there are more complex technical issues today than there were during the release of the 950. I also suspect there may be more that is not in the hands of the Outlaws than there is in what they can control.

I think it is what some call “delayed gratification”. blush
Posted by: XenonMan

Re: Is it done yet? - 08/21/10 08:51 AM

Yeah, the anxiety is starting to build. Pretty soon we will have people complaining about it being late to market and obsolete all over again. Many will want it to be compared sight unseen to other equipment currently either on the market or maybe not. The frustration will really start once the Xmas lists get rolled out. We should just re-read the original announcement over and over so we don't get too anxious after Thanksgiving when it is ready for testing.