Plans now that the 978 has been canceled?

I know that many have been waiting for the 978 and have been putting off the purchase of a pre/pro in anticipation for this unit. Others (including myself) have bought a pre/pro or reciever (or 2) in the interim, but was still very interested in purchasing when it was to come to light.

I'm curious to hear from those that would have purchased the 978 on what they now plan to do?

1) Purchase a current but similar to 978 offering (Marantz AV7005 appears to be the closest thing to it - less xt32)
2) Wait for the some other pre/pros that have yet to be released (AV7007, XMC-1, other..)
3) Wait for Outlaw's entry level processor
4) Nothing
5) Other??

I commend Outlaw for their recent announcement and made it clear that we should not expect a flagship model pre/pro anytime soon. This is bad news, but unfortunately the current reality. I hope that they find a lot of success with their entry level model.

Considering all events, best case scenario for me is that Outlaw comes out with a great sale on a Marantz AV7007 (provided it was xt32 equiped) the day it is released.

Waiting to see if Marantz release a pre-pro with XT32 until winter. Then I'll have to go around for a listen somewhere to make sure the SQ is up to snuff. If it doesn't look like it's going to happen, I'll probably end up getting an Integra 80.3. I do wish all these guys were making smaller form factors and that someone would finally put a headphone jack in the back so I can leave a set plugged in all the time easily (I hear the Integra cuts speaker output as soon as you plug headphones in - how 1980).

Honestly, I don't know of anything else, other than Emotiva perhaps, that's close to comparable for under $2500.

I think there may be too many questions about Emotiva to consider it realistically at this time.

I had actually ordered the Onkyo PR-SC5508 from Crutchfield, when they came out with a special purchase of the Onkyo TX-NR5009. The 5009 has the upgraded preamp section of the 5509, which is not available in the U.S. It is available for $200 less than the 5508 and you get the amp section and preamp upgrades for free! I have just gotten it installed into my system and I am generally very pleased with it. There are a couple of items which would be a negative for some. 1. It does not have balance pre outs. This is not an issue for me because I am still using my old reliable Outlaw 770 power amp, which does not have balanced inputs. I have them stacked on top of each other, so it is a very short run anyway and balanced inputs should never be necessary. 2. It does not have a 12v trigger for zone 1. This is irritating, but can be worked around by using the trigger for zone 2 and just powering up zone 2 at the same time as you power up zone 1.

I am not a big fan of Audyssey. I had the PR-SC886, which had MultiEQ. I hoped that the XT32 would be much improved, but I still prefer the sound with it turned off. However, my room is treated and is a pretty good sounding room with few issues. Audyssey seems to roll off the highs and lows and to me makes the system sound like an inexpensive bookshelf system. However, I am a bit of a bass nut and like a little emphasis at the bottom end.

I was really dissappointed that the 978 got cancelled. I had an old 950 that from a sound quality point of view was probably the best sounding processor I ever had. It just became too outdated and could not handle the new formats. I had high hopes that the 978 would have the sound quality with updated features. Too bad.

I know Outlaw doesn't have a direct replacement for the 978. Peter did mention an entry level processor that might be coming out in the fourth quarter. I would like to see a picture of it and see its specifications and features.

^^^

I'm wondering if they could springboard a higher level pre/pro off that one?

I don't even care about the fancy features it could have. But it would have to have XT32, and an awesome analog output stage. I personally don't need or care about video streaming, wifi, XM/Sirius radio, etc, etc, etc. Just need CD/DVD/BD video passthrough (not even processing thereof) and proper audio (HDMI) support for all the formats involved.

I will contentedly continue to run the Sherwood R-972 I got for dirt cheap into the 7700. It has a lot quirks and/or bugs, but once it is set-up, Trinnov is better than anything else I have heard...

So why has there not been any info on the new HT pre-pro that is possibly due in Q4?Would it hurt to let us know some basics given it is presumably near the end of it's development.Given Outlaw's track record on communicating with it's potential customers and the subsequent ill will it has created you think they would be bending over backwards to appease us.

I also am looking forward to some more news on that front. They may be trying to hit an upcoming milestone before speaking more, though - after all, they hadn't planned to say anything until it was ready to ship, until the Model 978 died and they had to adjust their plans.

Strangely enough I am as excited about this product as much as the 978,maybe even more so since I am not completely sold on room correction systems or additional processing of an audio signal.As long as a quality DAC has done it's job,there is proper bass management and I have HDMI connections.
Hey Outlaw why not just give us an update on when you will tell us more about about this pre-pro?

I'm a ways out on a prepro purchase. In my room Audyssey does wonders and I would like XT32, and I place a high priority on SQ. By the time I'm ready to shop Outlaw might have a replacement for the 978. But I also like the looks of the upcoming Marantz. Emotiva has made some missteps, with their DAC, prepro and subs. It seems like anything besides amps has been a struggle for them and that, plus the gawdy look of their upcoming processor has me pretty cautious about them. Right now I can't think of anyone else in the under 2000 category.

Lots of different answers. Only a couple interested in the Marantz if it provides xt32. Blind Hog has already moved on. Emotiva sounds promising, but my concern is shared by S. Sharkey regarding the implementation.

I didn't expect to see as much interest in the entry level processor as there was noted above. I'm guessing that it will be a good seller if it comes to light. I believe it is way too early to get excited about this prepro however. Since 2008 I got a way too excited about the 997, then the 998, then the 978. I'm not starting over on that drama again (I emotionaly checked out from that parade after the Black Friday sale last year). I am really pulling for Outlaw on it, I don't know if I can personnaly get too excited though.

What milestone would Outlaw be trying hit?

I don't know - I don't even know that they even have a milestone in mind (that's why I said "may be trying to hit a milestone"). They could be hoping to get some know bugs resolved, or get a particular certification process concluded, or get beta samples shipped to external testers, or get a suitable sample into a photographer's hands for promotional photos.

Have the 990, had the 950 and 970. Was patiently waiting on Outlaws newest but no go. Was thinking about the Sherwood R972 which was based on the 997, was wondering if this would be that much better sounding then my 990 which I really like.

Technically, the Model 997 was based on the R972, and the Model 997 was not released because of operational issues and limitations with the R972. Some of those have been resolved (through firmware updates over the first year or two of the R972's life), but I don't think they were resolved to a level that Outlaw would have wanted. From that perspective, you could find the R972 to be a step back from the Model 990 operationally. I don't think sound quality was ever an issue, though. I also read some things on AVS a while back suggesting that the Trinnov implementation wasn't 100% on target, but it did seem to be close enough to be fairly impressive.

I would consider replacing my Model 990 for a R972 if it gives me an improvement in sound quality, with and without Trinnov enabled. My speaker lay out is pretty close to ITU 5.1, with almost equal speaker distances (7' to 7,5'). My interest in Trinnov is to be able to heighten the soundfield for movie watching, using additional height speakers. Not at the expense of giving in on sound quality though...

So on sound quality would the R972 sound better then my 990

Trinnov does not add height channels. The R972 is a pure 7.1 receiver, without PLIIz or DSX to implement extra channels. Trinnov is a room correction technology, similar to Audyssey, that adds a function called "3D Remapping." This (in very crude terms) defines phantom speakers for each of the seven channels, located at the optimal positions around the chosen "sweet spot", and uses the seven physical speakers (each mapped in three dimensions by the calibration microphones) to create those phantom speakers.


I don't know because I've never used an R972. There are a couple R972 owners around here, though, I think - they might be able to offer first-hand experience.

This info from Curt Trinnov I found in a Sherwood R-972 User Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/t/1179978/sherwood-r-972-user-thread/1020#post_21675511): "Speaker placement: Yes, you can do height, or wides, as an example. Technique is to place speakers where you want more spatial definition, then calibrate. As we have more spatial acuity in the front, it makes a lot of sense in most rooms that are not long and narrow to setup a typical 5.1 array, then use the extra two channels for height or wides, or to fix a spatial problem. An example of this could be that there is a door, right where the left channel should go. The solution may be to place a speaker on both sides of the door, then have Trinnov correct the image. Same with height. If you have a low center, this can be off set by placing another speaker high. Requires re-calibration any time speakers are moved. When doing this, experiment with SPTL set to 2D and 3D for best results."

Oh, so you are adding height speakers but running them as duplicate front speakers? I totally missed that in your post and assumed you were talking about height speakers in the typical PLIIz/DSX "height channel" sense. Sorry about that.

No problem whatsoever, the 'duplicate font speaker' is exactly what I am aiming at. I am thinking of making a split for the L and R channel after the pre-amp, and connecting these to an additional stereo power amp for driving the height speakers. Putting an analog mixer in between will allow me not only to adjust relative volume settings, but also to add the center channel to the mix for additional 'dialogue lifting'. I will start with putting the height speakers 45 degrees to the side, and 45 degrees up, and equidistant with the fronts and center speaker. It will call it my 'analog Trinnov' for expanding the front sound stage... Hope it works out as I expect it will: spectacular! (apologies for getting a bit off-topic here)

Sounds like an interesting experiment.

Well went for the Sherwood R972, would have wanted the Outlaw version since I have the 950, 970 and still using my 990. Waited on the 997 then the 978 but for the price of a brand new R972 could not turn it
down, came out to less the 1/3 the original list price.

Steve1173,

I have the R972 in my setup for over 1 year. I have been very impressed by the Trinnov Optimizer in R972 from day one. It puts the sweet spot right around you if that's the proper to say it. It has its quirks and such are documented in various forums. The major one to me is the few seconds delay it takes to lock on to a digital stream again if the stream is paused/changed/interrupted. This occurs when you pause a movie and change the channel. Due to this reason I don't use it to watch cable as I am a heavy channel surfer and ad skipper :>

In my simple (movie only) setup I have the OPPO BDP-95 connected directly to the TV via HDMI. I only use the R972 for 5.1 audio given the OPPO is already doing a phenomenal job with video. YMMV but for my usage the R972 has been pretty much trouble free for me.

I agree at the current fire sale price it is hard to turn it down if Trinnov is what you want and you use it primarily for movies. Hope you enjoy your R972.

Did you by any change do some A/B comparison between the Model 990, and the R972 with Trinnov disabled?