New Outlaw products for 2012?

Quoting Scott who released the recent detailed information on the 978, Scott also stated....

"In fact, within the next few days you’ll hear about a new addition to our product line that is available for immediate shipment.

Beyond that, work is underway to complete a number of other products, with one that is far enough along the same debug/test/certify/regress path as the Model 978 that we may be able to bring it to you before the end of summer. Our confidence level on the progress of that model is high enough that we’ve just ordered the remotes and long lead parts. This exciting, Outlaw-exclusive product, along with one or two more that will follow quickly behind it will turn heads throughout the home theater world with a combination of simplicity, value and high sonic performance that is not available anywhere else."


What do you bandits think Outlaw will be releasing as the new products other than the 978?

Any new amps?
Somehow I doubt this since they have excellent units in the 7500/7700 and the huge 7900.

A nice two channel amp perhaps?

A higher quality AVR?

Perhaps a bluray player, which I would definitely consider buying, since I am eyeballing the Oppo BD-95.

What? Any thoughts?

Lotta fun, lotta fun.

"Food for thought,"...that's what you given us. I am most curious myself.
I think we can rule out another amp as "The Beast" 7900 is fairly new and along with the 7500/7700 are more than adequate in the flotilla of Outlaw products. Nor can I think of a high quality AVR. As far as blu-ray is I think that Outlaw would concede to Oppo.

How about a media server...for music in a moderate but competitive price range?

PS...like your signature.

Would never have thought of a media server. That would be something Rubbersoul.

P.S. I'm glad you like my signature.

I would love to see a digital amplifier. And would love even more to have a new Outlaw 978 pre/pro to hook it up to.

My post #89778:
Yes, one will be a "sound bar" with H-PAS. As Peter told me, this is public knowledge because he mentioned it in an Atlantic Technology press conference at CEDIA. Peter demoed H-PAS speakers at CES2010 and the bass from them was impressive indeed.

I've been asking about an efficient class D/H/whatever "digital amp" around here for years. There doesn't appear to be much interest. I kinda like the Wyred4Sound multi-channel offerings. They're competitively priced compared to Outlaw's amps and are 80-90% efficient.

I am very surprised that more companies have not been coming out with some type of digital amplification over the last few years.

There are in fact many on the market, so much so that some companies with their own original designs have gone under.

Digital amplifiers are a misnomer for what should be really be called "class D" or switching power amplifiers. The "D" doesn't even stand for digital but it was simply is the next letter in the alphabet to come after c; class C was the previous classification in amplifier topology design. They use a technique called pulse wave modulation (PWM) and the designs are similar to modern computer power supplies.

Since the first short-lived commercial class D amplifier to come to market in 1974, designed by John Ulrich (now owner of Spectron) and an unsuccessful attempt by Sony circa 1978, there had been a 20 year hiatus for class D amplifiers on the market. In 1998, Tact Audio brought to market the Tact Millennium which is an audiophile integrated amp ($10K) and soon after Spectron came with a new design eventually followed by others.

There are now in the market over two dozen different class D design topologies like Spectron, Equibit, ICEpower, UcD, Tripath, Zetex, D2Audio, NuForce to name just a few. Some design houses produce the basic class D amplifier modules based on their usually patented topology and sell them or license the design to the amplifier manufactures (or integrators) that build the final amplifier by adding the power supplies, the cases and often making a few tweaks to the basic modules. Some integrators of these ready made class D modules include some well known brands like Audio Research, Jeff Rowland, Bel Canto, Rotel, NAD, etc.

Furthermore, some big names in the industry have developed their own class D topologies that they use exclusively in their own products like Sony, Halcro and late last year even Marc Levinson. And then there's a plethora of small really obscure brands that even many audiophiles haven't heard of, some of which have come and gone as happens often in this industry.

So there are now literally dozens of manufacturers that make class D amps of all sorts. You just have to dig a little deeper and you'll be surprised by how many there are with prices starting at under $100 and well upwards of $25K.

Great info, Jam. Thanks.

Hmm...any other H-PAS products from Outlaw? I'd love the AT-1's from Atlantic but I figure with factory direct pricing (and minus some of the cosmetic bling) Outlaw could give me the same sound for a lot less. And while I know it isn't their focus I'd love a nice 2-channel preamp (with a "serious" phono section and maybe a DAC), or even an updated/improved RR2150.

I for one would like to see a "made in the USA" two channel amplifier for stereo use or to complement the 7500. I am not too keen on the 2200 since it is make overseas AND LOOKS IT. Even if it is a class D two channel amp. I believe they will stick to their current amp line up since it is a winning roster. They may drop one of them perhaps the non balance versions..who knows.

I would welcome a media server any day.

When and where was this release by Scott?

Hey Akiddoc

Scott announced upcoming released prior to the 978 on the forum homepage under announcements at the top. No release of any product per se has been actually announced but he stated that something will be announced very shortly. He, of course, did give solid information on the status of the 978.

I had asked about a 2 channel stereo class A (A/B) analog amp many years ago. And they still have never done one. If they haven't by now, they probably never will, unfortunately.

I suppose there is the ATI AT1202 (at 120W/ch), but it would be nice to have a power rating that matched the 5 ch 7500 at 200W/ch.

Yes, you can get the AT2000 with just 2 channels, but that's a waste of chassis space IMO.

I run my two.1 system using my 7500. Why would they want to build another chassis when most customers want 5 to 7 channels anyway. I could see them building a switching type amp since the 978 is going to use that type of technology for the power supply.

I have one of those ATI 1202 and they work well with the 7500. I have used it for rears so the power rating was really a non issue. I later used it to power the front channels in my living room, with the receiver picking up the fronts and surrounds. Well built at 36lbs - does n't look or feel cheap. Sounds good - not adding anything or taking away, and easily drives 4 ohm speakers (M80).

I would have to wonder about how profitable it would be to build and market an Outlaw branded 2 channel U.S. made amp, when the ATI 1202 already exists. But one could always hope for a new back to basics product from Outlaw.

"Most customers" is not me. I want to be able to use a dedicated 2 channel amp for music, and not need to power the other 5 channels when I'm not watching movies, which is most of the time.

So in that past I used an Acurus 2 ch stereo amp plus their 5 ch amp, and now I have a Proceed BPA-2 plus an AMP5.

That is one GOOD reason for a two channel "made by ATI" Outlaw brand amp.

Hear, hear. I'm in exactly the same boat -- love my 7700, but would love it even more if I could have a simple 200WPC two-channel amp for listening to music, so those other channels wouldn't even come into play.

I was told last year that at a recent show, the good folks at Thiel Audio used an Outlaw amp to drive their speakers. They're known to be quite picky. Imagine if there were a two-channel Outlaw product?

I assumed the new upcoming product was the new wireless amp. -Bob

If you want 2 channels of Outlaw amp @ 200WPC, you could buy a pair of 2200's. That probably wouldn't be my choice for a 2-channel solution, but that's what they're selling and it's available now.

I suspect Outlaw has done their own market analysis and decided that the stereo amp market wasn't one they wanted to be in. Can't say I disagree with that, even though I've often disagreed with them on other decisions.

Best,

I just wished that at least Outlaw would offer the cosmetic quality in the 2200 as they did from the 7075 on up. That would make the look and presentation very acceptable despite two chassis.

Looks more or less the same to me (from the front). That said, there's also a number of competitors that offer stereo amps in that price range that offer similar (or more) power output. The Emotiva XPA-2 comes to mind. The pair of Outlaws are made in Taiwan and the Emo is made in China. There's a bunch of others, but that's the one that came to mind first since Emo and Outlaw sorta play on the same ballfield.

Best,

I think it is a long shot they'd offer a 2-channel amp. For stereo they have the RR2150 and without a stereo pre-amp a 2-channel amp probably wouldn't be a big seller. However, if you want an Outlaw quality 2-channel amp ATI's AT2000 is the same the Outlaw 7500/7700 and can be ordered with just two channels. Or you could get the AT1202 with 120watts/channel.

Or you could buy a used Parasound HCA-1200II on ebay for about $300 and get equivalent sound quality.

IMO, the availability of high quality used Stereo Amps makes sale of a new amp problematic if you are marketing to value shoppers.

Emotiva: made in China. Parasound: made in Taiwan. 2 ch AT2000: waste of chassis space. AT1202: not 200W/ch. (And Outlaw doesn't even do a 5 ch, 125W/ch amp like the 7125, that would be a nice match to the AT1202.)



An analog 2 ch Outlaw amp would come from ATI and be made in the US, and be voiced similarly to their other ATI-based amps.

I know they will never do one, and that's too bad, because I would have been in the market for one. A lost opportunity IMO. By looks alone, they could have even used the 7075 chassis with minimal changes.

So I got the 7125 and use the extra channels to power zone 2. 200 wpc vs. 125 wpc is not that big of a difference. 2db SPL or so.

The old Parasound HCA-1200 HCA-1500 and HCA-2200 were all made in the USA. They were all very good amps with specifications similar to ATI's offerings. My 1200-II has been rock solid for close to 20 years now. I will accept that you are correct about the newer Parasound equipment.

^^^

Been at least 5 years now, maybe pushing 10 (or more?) that their stuff has not been made here.

The irony is: Parasound themselves offer *TWO* nice matching 2 ch and 5 ch amp combos:

A51 & A21 @ 250W/ch
A52 & A23 @ 125W/ch

Parasound "gets it".

Yes, they do.

Halo P7 for example. Let your OPPO do the heavy lifting.

Obviously there is not a huge market for such a product, but is EXACTLY what I want to go with my brand spanking new 7700 (awesome) and in route BDP-95.

AusTexRocker:

Actually that might be a great idea for a two/three component unit from Outlaw.

1) An all analog audio only preamp with 7 - 11 inputs per channel
2) A digital audio and video processor with high end DAC's, ADC's. Ideally with audio and video processors and dacs all mounted on boards so they can be replaced. As an example have one offering eqivalent to the 978 and another with Trinnov.

The two units could be connected by an ethernet connection, so that control information could be passed from one unit to the other (making them look like a single device).

All I want to see is the much promised 978 before we strap them on with something else. A receiver based on the 978 would be anext logical choice for those that don't want separates.

Anticipating the 978 but how do you think it will compare to the Integra 80.2&80.3?

I believe that the 978 will surpass the Integra models in clean signal path. If not it will be no less than those two models but with much better affordability. The 978 may have less techno-clutter than Integra. By that I mean Rhapsody, Spotify, etc etc. There are many things that Integra and hi end AVRs have but drive the cost up for nothing more than a huge buffet of options many of which few use.

beyond 1000: good post

Beyond and Hank: If you want the minimum, you should follow AusTexRocker and go the P-7 route. Once you go beyond that, its pretty hard to draw a line in the sand and say what is the minimum required set that should be included in a pre-PRO. After all if you want room processing, there are outboard solutions.

You claim that few would use them? Based on what? Do you really think, the big audio companies decided to include these features in their products out of their care for the few? I am sure they have studies that show how added features add to sales and profits. Did you do any studies? If not then at best your statements should be "I don't want to use them based on what I know now".

IMO the products that made Outlaw, the 950, 1050 and 990 were pretty much cutting edge when they were released. I think they should stay true to that heritage and in the present day that includes features like networking and streaming.

73Bruin

I have made no study on this. There are so many outboard features on these expensive units that not everybody who buys one will use EVERYTHING it has to offer. It is a "buffet" of sorts as I commented above. If brands A and B have all these features, then brand C will need them to keep up on the marketing of their product. As I said, all the features drive up costs including a myriad of hook up options. What is key with the 978 is keeping the price down even after all of the R&D going on. I, for one and I speak ONLY for myself here, will not be spending over two thousand dollars of my hard earned money on ANY of these products, including the 978. I will then be going the way of Marantz 7005.

There are so many $99 boxes (and less) with network/wi-fi interfaces that support DLNA and are equipped with HDMI outputs, S/PDIF coax/optical outputs and can playback a bunch of media file formats and offer many streaming services that I don't see it as so much of an issue. Connect the box to the 978 through HDMI and a coax or optical cable and you've just added a bunch of features real cheap.

The companies making these boxes have specialized at designing them and adding new features very quickly as they appear on the market. Having these kinds of features on the 978 would be nice but the R&D effort required to add them, including some kind of OS to control it all, is in no way trivial. This would require an important additional financial investment from Outlaw and IMHO this would surely increase the cost of the 978 much more than $99 considering that Outlaw won't be selling 978s anywhere near the comparatively huge quantities that a Denon or Onkyo does and over many different models at that therefore allowing these manufacturers to reap the benefits of economies of scale that help spread the R&D costs around and ultimately lower the cost per unit. I think Outlaw would probably have to charge at least an additional $300 or so per unit and we'll be waiting a whole lot longer.

Yes this would be a great product but the design of the modular architecture has to be well implemented from the beginning so that it's flexible enough to last more than a handful of years. The firmware controlling such a modular architecture would also be much more complex. The final cost of the units would also be quite a bit higher as it would require much more R&D.

Facts are facts, the 978 is done and being tested. No further changes will be made. Future components from Outlaw are not likely to be such that they require a lot of development time. For now, at least, I hope they focus on making the 978 the best it can be as soon as it can be.

Indeed, it's a done deal!



Amen! The waiting is killing us... Figuratively speaking of course.

So where is the update we were promised about the new gear Outlaw is bringing out?

A few days in Outlaw time is not the same as a few days on our calendar.

It's kind of like the dog/human ratio: one Outlaw day equals seven normal human days.

It takes hours to make minute rice around here. If you only had one day to live, you'd want it to be an Outlaw day.

Gentlemen, the new product announcement was made the very next day!

The new product is an extension of our wireless audio line. The new version, the OAWA3 is amplified so that it can be used to drive passive speakers:

Here's a link to the product page.

Looking at the owners manual this unit is for external zone 2 speakers I'm guessing. Not sure how it works. Sounds cool but I was thinking Outlaw will release some major component other than the 978.

THAT was it? Sigh......

I didn't even consider the new OAWA3 as a new product. I hope there is more to come since I already have an OWA3 and a two channel amp.

There has to be since Scott had the pom poms already flying.