Outlaw model 978 vs. Emotiva XMC1

I'm just getting into separates, moving up from a Yamaha receiver to a Emotiva MPS-2 amp & had been on the list for the 997/998 to go along with it. My room has a lot of issues & it looks like Trinnov is the best solution, but Outlaw is having a hard time getting the 978 out, let alone the 998. Emotiva's TacT looks more promising than Audyssey.
Computer based high bit rate digital looks like the future for high end audio. Can music be streamed from your computer to the 978's DACs without using a seperate DAC like the HRT Music Streamer II? It looks like the XMC1 will offer streaming capability. Just wondering how important it is to have this built into the pre/pro?

The 978 features have included the ability to "feed" digital audio files to the onboard DAC from a computer via USB, such capability has existed in current Outlaw offerings. Of course the feature list and specific implementation has been "subject to change" forever...

I have not seen enough reviews to judge the effectiveness of TACT vs XT32, though I do not beleive either of them has the advanced capabilities of Trinnov when it comes to making adjustments to delay & phase to electronically "re-orient" the speakers into a virtual perfect placement...


I'm sure that both Emotiva and Outlaw are very aware of the comparisions that will be drawn between both of their products and the various design trade-offs that were made enroute. It ought to make some for interesting reviews when both are in the marketplace.

renov8r: Your statement implies that the USB feed will go to the unspecified ESS Sabre DAC that is promised to be in the 978. This is by no means certain. The RR2150 has a USB chip that in addition to providing all of the USB handholding also does the conversion to analog. It is quite possible that same chip could be used in the 978.

One of my frustrations with the Outlaw statements about the 978 is that a lot of information about the quality of the chips used is not stated. For example there are 4 distinct lines of ESS DAC chips; I have seen some statements that imply it would be the Ultra chip and not the two chip reference series used in the Oppo BDP-95, but there is no official mention of this on the product page. Similarly the product page mentions Anchor Bay scaling but leaves out all mention of which chip set will be used. Considering that ABT was purchased by Silicon Image just over a year ago, I can see this being somewhat uncertain, but the product page only mentions video scaling and makes no mention of the other video processing capabilites that were offered by what are now "obsolete" ABT chips

Trinnov is rather irrelevant since the Outlaw unit isn't going to have it and the only equipment with Trinnov priced for consumer wallets was the Sherwood disaster that Outlaw almost released under its own brand. Perhaps our new Outlaw employee, Jeff Hipps, can comment since he was front and center (at Sherwood) during that debacle?

I haven't heard the Audyssey XT32 system, but I HAVE heard TACT gear. It simply needs to be heard to be believed. Sadly, Tact and Lyngdorf equipment is out of the budget of many home theater enthusiasts so this Emotiva processor has the potential to be a rock star. The jury is out on whether they're able to execute on this based on their last UMC-1 effort.

As for your claims about Outlaw pre's being able to accept input from the USB for their onboard DAC, I think the jury is still out on that one. They haven't been particularly forthcoming on (a) the versions of various crucial hardware components (which someone else already mentioned) and (b)the exact functionality that they plan to offer. So I hope you'll pardon my skepticism until such time as there is someone not under NDA who can comment on both of those points.

Best,

Points conceded.

The feature list really ought to be updated if in fact the product is moving closer to final production.

I suspect the decision about when to release more up-to-date details is somewhat difficult as whatever Outlaw definitely does not have will make it a slam dunk for the competition to "sell against" regardless of when their offerings might be available...

Details, details, all we want are details.

I'd say that HDMI is giving Outlaw absolute fits!

Here's' an AVS Forum post regarding HDMI:
"It's a flawed technology with no real basis for existence other than HDCP. Nuff said"

And another:
"Yeah, who ever said HDMI was made for consumers? Ha ha, no way, it was made for content owners. THAT's what it's all about.
But jeez, couldn't they test out handshake problems before rolling out such a technology? Then again, this is the industry that:
- Didn't think to fit a couple dozen characters of artist, album, and song name within 600+ MB of Compact Disc
- Decided the PLAY button shouldn't make DVDs play, rather you must use ENTER
and on and on and on and on..."

It's too late for the 978, but it would be nice if Outlaw had a Mac/Intel Thunderbolt connection in addition to HDMI.

I'm not so sure it's too late. It just depends what your looking for. I for one, don't care about all the streaming mumbo jumbo. The new codecs, audyssey, hdmi 1.4, and the best sound around does the trick for me. I wish the timing was better. I am finishing up my home theater project this weekend and unfortunately will be taking my living room rig(990 and 7125) to the theater until the 978 comes out. It will be a pain to be sure, but the promise of the 978 is too enticing.

As far as streaming goes, the quality is never there. Almost, but nothing like popping in a bluray. Maybe some would disagree, but I can stream netflix from my xbox anyways. And I can stream pandora and the like from my bluray player. I don't need to pay for redundancy. So unless there is something I'm missing, the 978 is perfect. The only caveat to all this: if it's not out in the first half of this year, i'm not waiting forever. My living room will be living off of the tv's sound, ugh, until then so I definitely will not wait past June. Oh and Peter, no matter the status, give us an update please. Lots of loyal people around here that want an update. I almost pulled the trigger yesterday on something else and I just couldn't bring myself to do it. i'm sure with an update, I wouldn't have even thought about it.

on a side note, I will have 3 axiom m80's across the front stage. will the 7125 be able to drive them well?

I also have M80v3 with the VP180 center. I can't speak for the 7125 but my Rotel RMB1075 at 7x120 does the job just fine. I would expect the 7125 to be just as good if not better.

Cool - Thanks AusTexRocker.

As far as those type of basically MP3 files. I agree. However, the future is with higher resolution digital, from 16-bit/44.1kHz, the standard of CD resolution, up to 24 bit/192kHz that can have a better sound than vinyl.
[url=http://www.goodsound.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=204:audio-101-part-6-sources-continued&catid=51:opinion&Itemid=3][/url]

In answer to your questions bwallen, I believe so. May want to check with Axiom. The M80's I believe are 4 Ohm and I don't believe any Outlaw amp has an issue with that. I'm using a Outlaw 9700 that absolutely rocks! With the M80's and the VP-180 center.

I agree. I have ripped all of my CDs using lossless compression and so there is no difference the sound quality of the content.

The Model 978 photos in the sticky post don't appear to include a USB port -- are they out of date as well? So hard to keep up...

Very interested in both myself. There are clear shortcomings in each, though -- the Emotiva completely lacks analog video, for instance. Not a huge deal, perhaps, but I still have a couple of sources I'd like to use, and it'd be nice to have a single control system. Likewise, the Emo has only a single HDMI output; I don't care, but many do.

On the other hand, the lack of any sort of control connectivity besides IR on the 978 is a huge pain. I could care less about integrated streaming (which the Emo has), but I'm trying really hard to move away from reliance on infrared. The Emo will have RS-232 and Ethernet control interfaces, which is nice.

Check the left side of the removable cover on the lower aspect of the front panel.

Excellent post, btw... and not only because I've made the same observations about both products. And please allow me to point out (only because it's a pet peeve) that you really mean that you couldn't care less about integrated streaming.

That's...an odd placement choice for a DAC input.



Argh! I know better than to make that mistake. I worry that the correct phrasing for that one may soon end up as uncommon as the proper usage of "begging the question," though.

At this point, we've only been told that the USB port will be used for firmware updates, in which case its location makes sense. Whether it will have additional capabilities... your guess is as good as mine.


Both battles are already lost, I'm afraid. But I keep trying...

I could care less whether people screw those usages up.

No, really, I could care less. But, yes, it's annoying.

The XMC1 looks like it has a pair of stereo balanced inputs, which are supposed to be sweet, right?
I still listen to good old 2 channel stereo a lot. CD & high res files.

The 978 has no balanced inputs
How much of a disadvantage is this?
Is HDMI as good, better, worse then balanced for 2 channel stereo?

Thought it would be nice to take advantage of the Oppo's balanced outputs.

Welcome Barry

Firstly, we don't know exactly what the finished model of the 978 will turn out to be. I myself am looking to get an Oppo 95 and running it 7.1 analog but that unit has only regular connectors for analog output. I do own an Outlaw 7500 multichannel amp with balanced connectors and plan to take advantage of my amp with that connection but that is only with the 978's balanced preouts to the 7500's balanced inputs.

I do not think that the balanced stereo 2 channel outputs of the Oppo will have any noticable sound quality over the rca outputs but I could be wrong. A balance output from Oppo to a two channel balanced input on the pre/pro still would be the ideal connection.

I have followed Emotiva for a few years and own 3 of their components, though not any of their pre-pros. Two of their previous models that I know of, including their current one, have had major issues, so it may be a bit early to presume bugless operation right off the bat. As well, they have had to deal with QC issues on several of their amps and other products.

The forthcoming XMC has some issues for me. No video processing whatsoever. Only one HDMI out. An obscure room correction brand never attempted in a unit at this price point, unlike Audyysey. The XLR inputs are a very small part of an uncertain picture at this point.

Actually, Tact Audio's RCS (Room Correction System) has been on the market since 1999, three years earlier than Audyssey MultEQ. The R&D work goes back to the mid 90's. It was one of the first consumer digital room correction systems on the market along with the likes of Australia's DEQX. So it's not that obscure and has had a very active user community on Yahoo!'s newsgroups since its beginnings.

However, you're correct in stating that it has never been been ported to a unit at this price point. Tact's TCS MKIII surround sound processor sells for a whopping $15K and guess what, no video processing either! Come to think of it, I don't remember it ever having been licensed to any other brand other than Tact's own in-house implementations. It's only a matter of having enough DSP power and memory for the algorithms to run properly and the lower prices in the last few years have made it feasible.

Yep, Tact is the elder statesman in this room correction business.

As far as the cpu grunt goes, those processor chips are getting faster and cheaper all the time and the same can be said for memory. It makes sense that this is filtering down to less expensive platforms. I kinda like the Linux on the ARM processor approach. Development on the ARM hardware implementations is blazing ahead thanks to its popularity on mobile phones and tablets, driving the speed up and the prices down. One would hope that this would speed development for future upgrades and new products since the code *ought* to be highly portable.

I haven't yet heard MultEQ XT32, but the Tact systems have just blown me away time and again. If the Emo guys can pull this off, it will sell like hotcakes.

Best,

I never claimed that Audyysey was older than Tact. I said that Tact was an obscure brand and hadn't been attempted at this price point. Certainly compared to Audyysey it is obscure.

And I'm not so sure that the XMC could sell like hotcakes. I'm not sure if members of this forum are aware of the disaster that was the UMC. People were actually talking legal action. In some cases it blew drivers. It lost the center channel signal. It's LFE implementation is legendary for being a complete joke. The room correction made things so bad most simply didn't use it. It had handshake issues and couldn't play well with some brands of cable boxes. And upon its introduction Emotiva promised the moon. Lonnie and Dan were actually giddy. They claimed that this perfect unit was the victim of some kind of installation glitch, that the programming was actually fine. But if so, why didn't a simple re-install not solve everything and give the customers sonic bliss for their hard earned dollars? For 2 years customers have had promise after promise thrown at them. Firmware after firmware and nothing panned out. I don't know how they could do that to their customers, but many are not coming back. Of course, many were kicked out of their forum anyway.

They've had quite a mixed bag of results. Amps whose LED lights that went hayware. The customer would return it only to have the bug show up in the replacement model. Amps whose channels blew up. Hissing amps. Their UPA multi channel amps had such poor crosstalk numbers that people would be woken up in another room on speakers fed from the same amp. Their ultra line of cables had a high rate of failure and was quietly retired.

They've had other issues. CD players that eat cds and miss the first few seconds of the first song played. Their DAC was released with an improperly implemented volume function which made it near useless as a pre-amp, one of its main selling features.

Out of the three products I purchased from them 2 had issues. The cd player front panel weeped an oily greasy substance. Upon removing the front right chrome piece I found that the screw hole had been badly stripped at the chinese factory using some kind of compound which accounted for the greasy film. They were disinclined to do anything about it. I had the DAC volume issue and had to pay to send it back for the volume fix so I could use it as a pre-amp.

Emotiva has a very long way to go, in my opinion, to get back some of the abused customers. A properly functioning pre-pro will not do it.

I realize you you didn't claim that Audyssey was older than Tact's digital room correction, I was simply putting things into some historical context just to illustrate that Tact's technology isn't that obscure. It's been reviewed in many major audio magazines like Stereophile (1999 & 2001) and The Absolute Sound (2000 & 2007) and has won many awards, as has Audyssey's MulEQ XT & SEQ to be fair.

However, compared to Audyssey's MultEQ notoriety, I agree with your assessment that Tact can be qualified as obscure. Tact digital room correction has only been used on their own gear whereas Audyssey has scored many wins with very well known major brands and a couple of lesser known brands too, literally selling into the hundreds of thousands if not millions in terms of an installed user base. Tact on the other, being more of a boutique audio brand selling to a mid to high end market segment is nowhere near a hundred thousand units.

I had read that there where some issues with some of the Emotiva gear but I didn't realize that it had reached the level you describe. Tact has also had some issues over the years and being a small outfit, some of the issues have taken quite a bit of time to resolve and service on units has being very slow at times. All things to ponder over when making a buying decision.

Wow.

That's depends very much on whether you plan to be using features like Audyssey's MultEQ XT32 and/or bass management. Many and arguably most A/V processors and receivers don't come equipped with analog-to-digital converters (ADC) to convert the analog signal inputs into digital signals. Therefore, if you plan to use MultEQ XT32, bass management, etc. on an A/V processor without ADC, then you have to either use the S/PDIF connectors for stereo (coax or optical) or HDMI for multi-channel so that the processor receives a digital signal in order to be able to apply the MultEQ or bass management algorithms in the digital domain.

We don't yet have a complete picture of the 978's features but up to now, I've seen nothing indicating that it had ADC capabilities.

Furthermore, when you use analog interconnects - unless you have very transparent ones which are usually very expensive and high-end - well your average analog interconnects tend to work as tone controls and you're almost always "tampering" with the signal loosing some nuances (information). The conversion processes, either ADC or DAC almost always incur slight penalties unless using very high-end gear and interconnects. OK, I can already hear signs of protests about jitter in the digital domain over S/PDIF or HDMI but IMHO those have less of an impact than using analog interconnects. The basic rule I would follow is, if you're source material is digital, then keep the signal in the digital domain throughout the whole digital processing chain and then convert the signal to analog at the very end in the DACs. It's also generally much cheaper as good S/PDIF and HDMI interconnects have much lower costs than high-end interconnects.

I think everyone is aware and I've mentioned it a few times myself. I definitely wouldn't want to be an early adopter for EITHER the 978 or the XMC-1. I still remember having issues with my 990 early in 2005 that weren't rectified until there were firmware updates made available, but that was a walk in the park compared to what I've heard about early UMC-1 purchasers.

Best,

Ritz you are exactly correct. The only way to be sure to miss any bugs/issues with either unit is to wait a year or so after release. It is certain that both units will have some type of issues when released and it will take at least a year to iron them out.

Owning processors and amps from both companies I feel those who refer to the problems with Emo products are being a bit hypocritical.

Look back at the beginning of Outlaws days with the 950. By comparison to today's processors the 950 is simple in its implementation. Raise your hand if you remember hiss issues, blue dot, red dot, stopping production for a few months to resolve problems then finally an E-PROM swap that you did on your kitchen table to fix DTS.

How about the 990 which began shipping in 5/05 and had multiple firmware revisions through 5/08. That's 3 years to resolve some issues. I applaud them for continuing to work on issues but it's another example of how things can drag on.

Lets not forget the 970/1070...

Outlaw has not had the pleasure of releasing a product as "modern" as the UMC-1 so we really don't know how they will handle the more complex issues of HDMI and advanced room correction. Time will tell and I think they will do better.

Every processor/receiver from both companies has had multiple software updates to resolve issues and that will continue with each new model. At least both companies have a generous return policy if you are not satisfied.

Well, I had an early 950 too. And I certainly don't remember other equipment being damaged by it, or any deceit from anyone at Outlaw concerning what was going on at that time. And I don't remember anyone ever being kicked out of Outlaw's forum.

But that seems to be what happened with Emotiva.

Hardware and software bugs are one thing, and Outlaw isn't immune to those, just like any other SSP/AVR manufacturer. But an SSP or amplifier damaging other equipment hooked up to it? Safety issues? That is a whole other kettle of fish.

I had heard rumors of how bad the Emotiva SSP was, but I didn't know the facts were as bad as S. Sharkey portrays.

Kevin I was going to write a response about hearsay and other issues but decided that the crux of what is being said is summed up in your last sentence.

heard rumors...

There's rumors and then there's damned rumors!

But these many problems and more were all played out on their forum and on the AVS forum thread for the UMC. If you're bored one day you can look it up. Another problem with their amps arose with the 12 volt triggers going faulty and ending in a smoke show.

To be fair to Emotiva, many customers have had nothing bad to say about their experience, and one of the three products of theirs I own has been trouble free for 2 1/2 yrs now. But that UMC was not ready for prime time and they had to have known it. How could you not know something that obvious? UMC pre-bug fix Here is the AVS thread on it.
People can feel free to pre-order the XMC-1 and buy it based on Emotiva's giddy superlatives. I dare you.

You MUST wait for the early adopters to buy the new EMO if you plan to buy it. I don't trust them on this thing to be bug free. Look at the painstaking effort Outlaw is undergoing to get the 978 out with little or no bugs and that is not fully guaranteed.

The EMO may be a world beater, but just because they advertise is well doesn't make it perfect. As far as I know there is no one who owns one yet and the only test review I saw was based on its advertized feature set. If it is a great machine, it will still be great next year when we know what the issues were.

You don't want to be an early adopter of ANY new processor. Based purely on advertised features, the Emo appears to be the better product, but I'm not going to be one of the guinea pigs. I'll wait a few months to see how those daring "I gotta have it now" types are faring.

In the meantime, I'll "slum it" with an AVR. I've gotta say that the Apple Airplay thing and the ability to control the AVR with an Ipad/Iphone/Android device is proving to be a lot more useful than I thought. <blush>

Best,

Ritz, what advertized features lead you to believe that the Emo appears to be the better product. Can you please elaborate?

Best regards

Was it an actual "hands on review", which implies that someone actually had a unit, or simply a report of whatever Emotiva put in their press release or product announcement. I strongly suspect it was the latter.

Your suspicion is correct, it was the latter. You can read it here on the Audioholics website. If you go to Emotiva's website, it says that it's "Coming Soon". We all know how relative this statement can be. After all, Outlaw's products page has been showing the 978 with the same mention for quite some time now.

Just wanted to asked a couple of questions in concerns about the 978.
I know (including myself) there are a lot of people out there that want to see the success of the 978. There are a lot of people out there that want to see the 978 tested, debugged, on the market and shipped out to it's first customer or guinea pig ?
I would like to know how many people on this forum will be the first to pull the trigger before hearing of any results from consumers?
I have a couple of tech related questions. Sorry if they seem unimportant or dumb.
First, I noticed on the rear panel of the 978 that there are only three optical inputs as opposed to the 990's four. I myself use all four optical inputs. I am using them with the Oppo, Roku, Sony777, and Comcast. I do know that I can eliminate the Roku and stream Netflix thru the Oppo, however I like the idea of having the four optical. Why only three?
Second, on the 990 the 7.1 channel or multi-channel is clearly labeled but not on the 978.
Does it have multi channel?

Thanks

Hey Rubbersoul

You said you need 4 optical inputs for the 978. You are using optical on the Oppo. Is that for movies? Would you not use HDMI or analog multichannel for movies on the BD-93. This is the only way you can flush out lossless audio. If you need to eliminate Roku then Roku you must eliminate. My guess is that Outlaw may feel that HDMI is the new way to go but still gives you three optical inputs. Not too sure why anybody still needs component or composite. I guess the world isn't totally ready to give those inputs over yet.

The multichannel is labeled here as "analog audio inputs." I guess they are not using the "7.1" designation for this method of hookup. Outlaw may feel that their clients are so smart they will figure it out.

As for myself I will NOT be amongst the first early adopters to pull the trigger and fire in fear that the early edition of the 978 may not be ready for a real gunfight. I want to wait and see if some of you brave cowboys are ready to be deputized by Sheriff Scott and his posse. I wish to wait for 2012 (assuming the 978 comes out this year) and buy next year. I do intend to buy the unit providing it will be released at a respectable price.

Aren't all of those sources capable of excreting HDMI? If so, why would you need a second digital input for them?

Best,

First thanks for the response.
Except for the Sony the rest have HDMI capability. Like I said it seems that I will have to eliminate the Roku. No big deal except I just purchased it not to long before I bought the Oppo 93.
Question...with Comcast using HDMI would I have audio if I did not use optical?
I am using both Optical and multi-channel on the Oppo, the HDMI in use goes directly for Video use directly to my projector. Multi channel on blu-rays and optical with standard discs and cd's unless of course they are SACD's.

The Oppo is the only unit connected directly to the projector.

I don't follow. If you've got HDMI, you can simply use HDMI to transport the digital audio stream. That's how I have my Roku XS hooked up.

Best,

I will be one of the early purchasers of the Model 978 when it becomes available.
I have ordered a Model 7700 and looking forward to matching it up with the 978.
A big thanks to all of you for making the 7700 purchase easy.

rubbersoul,

Your dilemmas are non-existing. You don't need to ditch your Roku if you want to connect it to the 978 through the optical connector. Keep on reading to find out why.

Optical connectors otherwise known as Toslink, since it was developed by TOShiba, adhere to the S/PDIF (Sony/Philips Digital Interface Format) specification. The S/PDIF spec describes both an optical interface (Toslink) and an electrical one, often called coaxial as the cable used is coaxial (75 ohms impedance) and uses RCA connectors at both ends. Those two S/PDIF interfaces (coax and optical) essentially have the same bandwidth and are used to carry the same signals, traditionally LCPM digital data out from a CD player or a transport but also lossy Dolby Digital and DTS streams typically but not exclusively for DVD players.

Now back to the 978, on the left hand side where a column of six connectors is marked "DIGITAL INPUTS", you can see the three optical inputs on top and below there are three orange RCA connectors numbered 4, 5 and 6. Well, those three RCA connectors are the "coax" S/PDIF connectors that you can use for digital connections. So the solution is simple, you can keep using your Roku with the optical out and simply use the connector labeled "coaxial" from the Oppo BDP-93 instead of the optical one on that device. Alternately, you could do the same thing with your Comcast box if it has an RCA digital coaxial connector; I don't know the Comcast box. Your Sony 777 also has a digital coaxial RCA out connector. So in fact you have 6 S/PDIF digital inputs to choose amongst on the 978.

Many audiophiles actually prefer using the coaxial RCA inputs as they believe the electrical interface provides more speed for transients even if it is susceptible to more electrical noise. While the optical INTERFACE is much more immune to electrical noise and a fiber optic cable has considerably more bandwidth than an electrical one, the somewhat dated Toslink interface specification that defines the transceivers used that must convert the optical pulses back to an electrical signal is perhaps not as fast as it could be, arguably a little less so than a straight electrical coaxial interface.

However, as beyond 1000 and Ritz have clearly pointed out, at least for Blu-ray material that use the lossless Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio codecs, you should by all means use HDMI for extracting the multi-channel digital audio as you'll get the full uncompressed (lossless) digital signal, i.e. much higher sound quality over optical or coaxial (S/PDIF). The best S/PDIF interfaces out there only have sufficient bandwidth to carry LPCM up to 192KHz/24bits (in stereo only) or plain Dolby Digital and DTS but not the two new high resolution multi-channel audio codecs mentioned above that Blu-rays typically use.

Barring unforeseen circumstances, I will be one of those early adopters

I will most definitely not be an early adopter. I have three functioning systems right now and don't need anything to crash that party. If one of my Onkyos or the 990 buys the farm I will still wait until I have heard the news. I am definitely interested in the 978 from a technical standpoint but will see what happens with the 998 and Trinnov before I cross that bridge. I have seen some really good deals on the Sherwood R972 on the net and could go that route too. Right now my closets are full.

I could see being an early adopter ... if Outlaw would have me.



I was there from the beginning for the 950, and I don't remember any show stopper type problems that would stop you from using your system entirely while they worked out the early bugs.

I think way too many people might be thinking, Emotiva = Outlaw for bugs, and that just is not the case. I think Outlaw has a much better track record of getting rid of the worst of them before even beta test customers get their units.

I would of been one of the first in line but I am buying a used Integra DTC-9.8 on Thursday and if all goes well with that, my 990 heads into its box. So I guess it all depends on how I like the 9.8 but I certainly wouldn't be afraid of being an early owner of the 978 based on my past experiences with Outlaw.

Thanks for clearing things up. I did not realize that coaxial RCA cables were as good or better than optical. My Oppo 93 is connected by HDMI straight to my Mitsubishi 6800 for video and I have use of both Optical and analog multichannel. I have a 40' run to my projector using blue jeans cable.

I am not afraid to get a 978. I have two Outlaw amp, a 990, an OWA3 and an LFM1-EX. I just don't think it will be that much of a sonic improvement over what I have. I love my 990 for music as it is. I will run it until death comes to one of us. Outlaw is definitely not in Emotiva space. I don't think Emo likes to be criticized for the past practices. But... if they want people to stop they need to get their Sh*t in one sock with their newest device.

I've yet to purchase anything from Emotiva...mostly because of my aversion to spending money on higher end electronics that are assembled in China. That said, Emotiva DID recently purchase Bryston, a company that's very well respected in the industry. One would hope that Bryston's stellar reputation for quality and their very long warranties will be a good influence on Emotiva.

I was also a pretty big fan of my 990. I eventually stopped using it because of the lack of HDMI and more modern codec support. Outlaw's failure to follow-up the 990 with a successor in a timely manner has undoubtedly cost them a lot of business. I don't think I would buy a processor from them again after seeing the repeated flubs after the 990, but maybe some other folks are a bit more forgiving than I am...though I would caution those folks to avoid being the early adopter guinea pigs. Such is life. I would still recommend their ATI-sourced amps, even though they are a bit pricey compared to similar offerings from Emo.

Best,

It was Sherbourn that Emotiva bought. I'm sure they didn't purchase Bryston and a google search backs that up. Bryston is a high end manufacturer which designs and builds their amps in Canada, very very far from Emotiva's country of choice, China.

Holy brain fart, batman. You're right, it was Sherbourn...another well respected name in the industry.

Best,

Ritz thank you.Honestly I never gave it a thought about the use of HDMI being capable of audio streaming.
I was so in-doctrinated into the use of optical.

Thank you for the insight.

Yeah, it really cuts down on the cable clutter too.

Best,

As Outlaw #58 (or 85 - don't remember), and an early buyer of my 950, I wouldn't be scared to be an early buyer of the 978. Only last year did my 950 start having problems: loud buzz (probably a loosened torroid xformer mount) and front panel volume control that doesn't change the volume when turned half the time (probably dirty contacts).

I wouldn't be afraid to jump in early either .. I'm still using my 950... it's had to go back in a few years ago, but for now, my TV has enough hdmi inputs and everything has optical out or 7.1 out (bd player)... so I'm OK for now... BUT I want to re-arrange the room and mount the TV and put my equipment in a closet.. when I do that I'm going to go with only one hdmi cable to the TV... so... for now I wait while the mount for the TV sits in that closet

Wow.. I also just realized I've had my 950 for almost 10 years

10 years old on the 950? In dog years is that 110?

Yep, 10 years on my 950. That's 70 dog/Outlaw years.