Is it time to punt for me?

My money I've been saving pennies for upgrading my venerable 990 is here. I'm so sick of grabbing remotes to flip my HDMI around every time I change sources and my kids losing remotes/putting them in other rooms on accident making it annoying.

I love my 990, and I want to upgrade and give my business to the folks that made it. However, the follow on to the 990 has been 'coming soon' since 2010 and is almost going on two years since first mentioned. I'm about to remodel the room it's in and want to run wires and build cabinet to hide things in again, etc.

However, I want to buy a new pre-amp.

Should I give up and go with the Marantz AV7005?

Actually, going with the AV7005 doesn't preclude still waiting for the 978.

I have an AV7005 I got last fall, and it has Audyssey XT. But the Outlaw will have XT32, which should be an important upgrade. And I'm hoping that the Outlaw'a analog output stage will also be an upgrade over the Marantz, with its Sabre ESS DACs. Time will tell.

Given the lack of concrete information thus far, you might want to look elsewhere if you're that geared up to make a change. In my case I spent enough on a used replacement for the 990 to make a jump back to Outlaw feasible if and when the time comes. Brand loyalty is something every enterprise looks for, in this case Outlaw is blessed; they've made some great products and enjoyed the resultant goodwill. Unfortunately for the company and fortunately for the consumer, this loyalty must continue to be earned. Whether through its own doing or through no fault of its own, this loyalty has been stretched to the point where many have made other choices. Whether or not we've moved on to other gear, I think we are all rooting for the Outlaws to come back with a kick-ass product whenever it happens - life, however, goes on...

Why punt? I, personally, am not having trouble finding things other than pre-pros to spend my money on. The only real question is will I have any money left when Outlaw releases?

The AV7005 is a nice unit and may still be made in Japan (I'd seen some chatter about production being moved to China where Marantz produces a lot of their lower end models). There's also the Onkyo TX-NR1009 that's a wee bit cheaper, feature rich, and made in Malaysia. It's also THX certified if that sort of thing matters to you (it doesn't for me).

If you're remodeling anyway, you might as well get something that fits the bill when you need it. Perpetually waiting might be frustrating since there's always something better/faster/cheaper just over the horizon if you keep waiting.

Best,

Given the lack of positive news on the 978, I would jump on the 7005. The price is similar as is the feature set. If the 978 comes out perfect with no bugs great. I wouldn't buy one for a year or so after release just to make sure. There have been too many delays associated with the 997/998/978 for me to keep hoping for a perfect release. I am sure Outlaw will fix any issues that come up but I would rather be using the machine instead of tuning it.

Entrirely fair to be cautious, however I suspect that at least part of the delay / lack of communication has to do with tweaks that have come from suggestions of the beta testers. In my experience with other Outlaw products the tweaks have been more validations of preferred operating styles than major overhauls of some improperly implemented feature. Of course the nature of OSD driven menus is often that what seems like a minor tweak to a selection hierarchy requires a complete re-think of a whole lot of dynamic data, which might mean nothing in terms of sonic performance / reliability, and in that sense no real "tuning"...

Once the product is released to the public the postings ought to give a pretty clear indication as what makes sense to jump on or hold off.

And all this waiting has given me the chance to re-evaluate my needs. Since the only source I'll be using is an OPPO BDP-95 and maybe a turntable, I think an analog surround preamp is all I need. I only use analog outs on the OPPO and don't really care for digital sound/video processing, room correction, and the (nice to have) extras that the 978 will offer. Something like the Parasound P7 sounds perfect for me other than its pricetag and I understand that the balanced in/outs on this unit are not true balanced connections.

Which processor, 978 or Parasound, has the not true balanced conns?

The 978 will have fully balanced XLR connections. It's the Parasound that is reported to have balanced which are just single ended internally.
I may just try the OPPO directly to the amp. If volume control works then that might be all I need.

I have a friend who has his OPPO connected directly to 3 tube amps and uses the volume control on his OPPO. He couldn't be happier. It works fine when you don't have multiple sources. That's where the pre/pro comes in of course. He's in the market now.

Whether to 'punt' is a question each of us has to answer individually based upon our individual circumstances. As for me, I'm still waiting. Fortunately, I can, finding my 990 is still in perfect working condition. Some HDMI issues, and the 990s inability to decode the latest codecs were solved with a new OPPO player. Your mileage may vary, of course.

Everything that could be speculated upon, regarding the 987 has been said; it's just that everyone has apparently not yet had a turn saying it. No one could be more frustrated with the situation than the guys who have their money on the line. This is not exactly a business plan that would get you an MBA at Harvard.

Some of the delay's have been due to advancing technology and undefined specs. I believe legal issues with their early partnerships actually accounted for the first misstep. But these are now long past issues. This is a very complex piece of equipment -- to build correctly. The software is obviously very complex. Outlaw's legacy is that their equipment is absolutely top quality; that's no doubt the reason the're still messing with the fit and finish.

The only hope Outlaw has for recovering any portion of their investment is to bring this to completion. At this point, any newly released DACs or video chips, etc. would not obsolete the existing design. Circuits can only be so good... 99.9999 percent perfect (however that is defined) is sufficient.

We can't find a pre/pro better than this one without spending 3x or more money, and it's doubtful I would ever HEAR the difference.

One thing seems certain: there is simply too much invested here to abandon the project. That decision could have/would have been made months ago, with a huge hit on the Outlaw reputation. So, unless you have a very compelling reason to get a new pre/pro before mid summer, why not ride it out. Each day brings us closer to the unveiling!

Keep in mind, some have been saying this for the last +3 years, thinking that it will be here by mid-summer can be dangerous.

I admit that I have been saying that since 2008, but have also swapped out a receiver, an Outlaw 970, and now I am using my current Onkyo receiver (w/ Outlaw 7500 amp). All this since the original 997 announcement. If the 978 comes by mid-summer, I will buy it, but I have quit kidding my self by expecting it to come.

A very sensible attitude, shared by many here, I suspect. That doesn't make it any less frustrating - or at least disappointing - for some of us.

I am frustrated and disappointed. I just have no expectations that it will be here any time soon, if at all. Up till recently I kept telling myself, only a couple months away..

Well, then there's the math of waiting... each successive day becomes a smaller percentage of the total wait. Another day by now is probably only 0.1%.

But then again when you devide the number of processors produced into the number of years waited you get an infinite number. At least it can't get anymore infinite.

Some of us punted a while ago and now we have the ball back and have to decide to run or pass

Like everyone here, I've been frustrated, and waiting for a long while. I probably even made a comment that I wouldn't wait, but I have.

My thinking on the issue boils down to this: wants and needs. I want a new processor that supports HDMI, but do I need it? The answer to that currently is no. My system works as and works pretty well. If it had to be more user friendly I'd have to get a better highend remote control, which I may get anyway with my lutron lighting system. So I can wait and will wait. The only thing that will force me to make a move is if my 990 crapped out and I don't see that happening.

So ask yourself if you absolutely need a new processor or just want one. You've waited this long, so will a few more months or 6 more months hurt?

I've been checking this forum almost every day for the past year or so in hopes of seeing an announcement regarding the 978 and each day I sigh. I got excited when I saw the recent email from Outlaw hoping it was about the 978 to be disappointed that it was about another Marantz product. Sigh.

Retrep's post pretty much fits me. I've been able to configure my system to do what I want using my OPPO so I don't need a new processor. However, I want the 978's features. But, I'm not overly confident the 990 will last much longer without some kind of repair. In fact, mine made a trip back Outlaw a couple of years ago to get fixed and fortunately it has been going strong since.

If my 990 needed another repair before the 978 arrives I'd be in a quandary whether to have it fixed or buy a pre/pro that has the features I want. I'd certainly like to have the 978 on my short list of choices, so I'll keep checking the Saloon on a regular basis.

If I needed a processor right now I would look outside of Outlaws 978. It is too much of an unknown at this point. Too many questions about specific hardware and the uses it will be put to. The delay doesn't bother most of us because we do not NEED a new processor yet. As long as OPPO makes a streaming disc player with analog outputs my 990 and PR-SC886 can stay in bidness.

How good is OPPO at streaming? Do you use it for Netflix, Flac...?

Thanks Bob

I use it for streamin Netflix and Pandora. It works pretty well but make sure you have at least 6 MBPS download speed or you may have some pause/resets to upload content.

Just curious if they have improved. When I was looking for a BD player I went with a Sony since I thought the streaming was more advanced than Oppo's offerings. I have had really good luck with the Sony.

Thanks,

-Bob