Alternative pre?

I am thinking of giving up the wait and picking up an Integra 80.3. It is likley more expensive than the 978, probably a grand or so. What do you guys think about the sound it will produce? I believe the 80.3 uses the TI PCM1795 BurrBrown dac.


I sold my bdp-95 in anticipation of upgrading from the 990 and now im up the creek w/o a paddle.

I gave up the wait six months ago and purchased the Integra 80.2. I LOVE the sound -- whether I'm listening to SACD multichannel or Blu-ray through the OPPO BDP-93, or two-channel sound via my turntable/Parasound JC3 phono stage combo.

Anyone know who's got the best price on the 80.3?

I am also interested in 80.3 pricing. I cant seem to find it online how I generally shop, I may need to email a handful of dealers. Any input on finding a deal here would be appreciated. I am also considering waiting until after CES in the hopes that either prices drop or Outlaw announces the 978.

MSRP at CEDIA was to be $2600. It is apparently available but who knows if a premium is being charged.

Don't see Outlaw as being listed as an exhibitor for the 2012 CES.

No, they do not have a booth or suite. Last year Peter was in the high end audio portion at the Venetian, demoing the Atlantic Technology H-PAS speakers. Those speakers will be in the Parasound room at the Venetian (Veronese meeting room 2501A). I don't know whether or not Peter will be there this time.

> I am thinking of giving up the wait and picking up an Integra 80.3.<
Curious, did you look at the Marantz 7005 or is the 80.3 in another league? -Bob

I, for one, looked at and listened to the Marantz 7005. It sounded great in the showroom, but I couldn't persuade my dealer to let me take it home and audition it with the rest of my system in my living room. My living room has peculiar acoustics (slanted ceiling, odd corners, etc.), so I decided to go with the Integra because of XT32. And I'm happy with my purchase.

Bob, I read through the 80.3 thread on the AVS Forum and concluded: not in the same league. Caveat: I have not listened to either one.

I picked up a used AV8003 for a pretty reasonable price to replace my 990 (Just needed to move forward into the HDMI world, etc.). Reasonable enough that if the Outlaw pre-pro ever comes out, I would strongly consider unloading the Marantz and moving home to Outlaw. At the time (about a year ago, I think), I was really concerned that the 978 or some variant would come out right away and cause a heap of regret. Guess it didn't turn out that way...

I did the same thing with my Onkyo 886 almost three years ago and I have enjoyed it ever since. No regrets for pulling that trigger.

I have the 886 as well and have no desire to upgrade right now. That is unless the 978 comes out or the Onkyo 5508 is priced close to $1K.

Bill

I have an Integra 80.2 I purchased last summer. I compared with the 7005. I am running this with the Outlaw 7500 and Magnepan 3.7's. I am very happy with my decision.

Anyone want a (made in China) Denon AVR-1912? Made by the same folks that bring us the Marantz gear from China. I just won it as a company party door prize.

<groan>

Find out where they bought it get the receipt and go to the store and trade for something you do want. I did that a while back with a video camera I won and got stuff I wanted.

Hadn't thought of that. That's a great idea!!!

Best,

If I could get an Onkyo PRSC5508 now for the price that we think the 978 will be, why should I wait?
Gimme some reasons to hold off.

Curious, would you consider the Marantz AV-7005(from Outlaw) an equal to the 5508 or a step down? -Bob

Based purely on specs (haven't heard either one), they appear to be similar, though the Onkyo sports Audyssey EQXT32. The Onkyo is also made in Japan.

Best,

As Ritz2 notes, they appear similar and I also have not heard either one. I asked about the Onkyo because it has EQXT32, which seems to be a BIG DEAL around here.

Folks, please post reasons for me to rationalize waiting for the 978. Why should I?
thanks

I faced the same choice last May, and chose the Onkyo's big brother, the Integra DHC-80.2.

I'm not in a position to wax rhapsodic on the superior quality of XT32 over XT, because I never had a unit with XT in my listening room. But I've got an odd-shaped room, with uneven and tricky corners and a slanting ceiling, and I can confirm the XT32 does a remarkable job of accounting for it all. Running an Outlaw 7700 through the 80.2 gives me a huge soundstage, and truly allows for eyes-closed where-are-the-band-members-standing listening.

My sound quality is excellent, regardless of source component.

And as for another recent hot topic -- the lack of network streaming on the 978 -- I can report this: The 80.2 allows me to hook the unit via Ethernet connection directly into my home network. That allows easy access to the high-res digital sound files that reside on my computer in the next room without needing a Squeezebox or an AppleTV. The 80.2's DACs are Burr-Brown, if memory serves, and while they're not ESS Sabre, they do quite nicely.

Prettty nice summary of the 80.2 strenghts.


I still have a couple of crazy "high end" shops around the Chicago area that I occaisionally get a chance to stop into. You know, the kind of place where most of even the two channel speakers cost more than a used car and some approach the price of a house. These places are getting pretty big on the high resolution sound files band wagon. They are also increasingly embracing some of the "boutique" sound processing, things like TACT would fit in, as would DEQX, Trinnov and Lyngdorf. Personally I have never met anyone other than a dealer that has such a sum sunk into their system, and believe me I know way more people that earn a ton more money than me, so I really wonder who does spend their dough on this stuff (I do know more than few folks with cars deep into the six figures, so the money is out there...) and I doubt that a tiny value oriented firm like Outlaw OR a huge mass market firm like Onkyo /Integra or Denon/Marantz will ever be able to work effectively with firms that have processors in the mega buck realm.

I do suspect that more and more content type devices (live BluRay player manufacturer / marketers) will continue to expand their offering in the high resolution streaming solution offerings arena. That will happen VERY fast...

WWP3: thank you for your input.
Keep it coming, guys.

I firmly believe in

1. Less is more
2. The K.I.S.S method

I have no doubt that I am in the minority but an awesome all analog preamp from Outlaw would be just about the best thing ever for me. For me music comes first then DVD and BluRay. I listen to a lot of SACD and DVD-A surround recordings as well as 2 channel. The OPPO does an excellent job decoding everything I have. This past weekend I pulled my old Onkyo out of the mix and went straight from the OPPO to my amp and was completely blown away by the improvement even though I always used the "direct" mode on the Onkyo.
The only drawbacks are no way to use the fine OPPO stereo DACs and the 5.1 analog out, minimalist volume control, and no phono in.
I've looked at offerings like the Parasound P7 and Audio Research MP-1 which seem would like the ticket except for price and a few minor features.

Clearly a "one-box-does-all", like the 978 is difficult to achieve and then offers redundancy and features that I would never need or use.

Remember we all did fine before HDMI, room correction, streaming, network, etc. Man, I miss the simple times.

Outlaws, maybe there is room for such a product in your lineup.

Amen! I look at the AVS Forum Oppo 95 thread about DLNA/streaming and it is a huge number of pages long - such wailing and gnashing of teeth and frustration! People trying dozens of software implementations with quirks and failures and successes and jargon like I've rarely seen. I don't understand most of it and it seems like when/if you get the perfect software and then spend countless hours ripping your CD's and movies, then you arrive at the nervanic state of ultimate "convenience". I can't knock it - convenience/laziness has made a fortune for Apple. I get off my can, walk to my CD rack, choose one, put it in the tray and push play. Not what I'd call a lot of effort or wasted time.
Rant off/flame suit on. To each his own. PS: how did civilization make it this far without cell phones?

I love my SB for music, real convenient to switch tracks/albums which I tend to do frequently and mid song. Also keeps me from having a bunch of CD's cases on my cabinet. Now I don’t quite understand the ripping of movies to disk as being convenient. How many movies can you watch in one night?

Bob

I guess I'm in the minority. I don't listen to a lot of music. I'm in the car all day listening to music, so by the time I get home.....

I want my new home theater for primarily movies, tv, and video games. All that music stuff just doesn't appeal to me. And I like having a physical disk to put in the player. Until streaming quality can match blu-ray. Even then, unless studios are charging less, I would prefer a physical medium. I must be showing my age as inevitably this will change.

I wlll alway prefer a physical medium over streaming. Maybe it's my age as well, maybe I like to collect, hold in my hand, read liner notes (apply bi-focals first). I actually like the look of rows of CD cases on a shelf. I think there will always be a niche market for discs if only for the audiophile crowd. At least I hope so. Afterall, vinyl has a strong fillowing.

And I listen to music at work and in the car too, but that can't come close to the SQ of listening at home.

And I listen to music at work and in the car too, but that can't come close to the SQ of listening at home.

Your right about the sound quality. I have 4 kids and have to choose how I spend my time. I generally only get to sit down on weekend nights so movies and games win out. When my kids are older and I have some more free time, not likely, I may get back into music again. Until then, I want the best in-house movie experience I can afford.

I see you have some axioms. Do you like them? Mine are still sitting in boxes until next weekend.

I am extremely happy with the Axioms. I had a pair of M60ti for a long time and moved those to the bedroom when I got the M80v3. Granted, I have never compared them to really high end speakers but they blew away the old Klipsch speakers I had before. I don't think I have really even experienced their full potential yet. Everytime I upgrade some other piece they blow me away all over again.

I know about the kids at home thing. My 21 year old moved back home with girlfriend and baby so my free choice time is suddenly limited as well.

Enjoy your new speakers!

And I thought I was the geezer here! I have 4 kids but 3 are successful and 1 is a professional college student ;-) None of them live with me, so I have time for my kind of music and lots of movies. Are any of you guys DIY-ers? I've built several speakers over the past 10 years and have enjoyed it immensley, but don't have/make time for it now.

Maybe Austin is just a haven for us "old" music lovers Hank. I have condidered a DIY project for the preamp I dream of, but with no electronics background, I don't know where to begin. It seems like it should be fairly easy though.

We are all going to be geezers by the time namesake of this particuar forum is available.

Sorry Outlaw...couldn't resist a setup like that : ).

While I'm bothering to post I'll address the original question in this topic - the Integra 80.3 seems the most intriguing to me, even though I'm not really a big Integra fan (not for any great reasons or any I'll bore people with...they just aren't at the top of my list). The thing is, if Outlaw can get their new processor out, there will probably be a lot demand (relatively speaking)...there just hasn't been many options for folks who want a processor, want current HDMI capability, but don't want to spend multiple 1000s of $ for one. The apparent added focus on audio would seal the deal for me, and XT32 will make it a no-brainer for many. I'm sort of waiting for Outlaw to re-engerize the hobby.

I am trying hard not to go for a R-972 now that they appear to be working and can be had for $599. I REALLY want to wait for the 978, but the lack up updates is semi-unprofessional given a post saying there would be an update in early February...

I traded PM's with Peter last week. They have made significant progress lately (probably having to do with the China trip), but he does not want to post an expected production date here until VERY sure it would be realistic, as Outlaw has been called "liar" when previous estimated dates were missed, and they are very sensitive to that. Sorry, he gave no details. I did tell him the saloon is full of very restless cowpokes.

I've wondered lately how Emotiva has come out of the blue with a new processor design in the XMC-1 that seems quite a step up and departure in design from the UMC-1. Most A/V processors and receivers from manufacturers usually follow a fairly modest path of incremental changes by adding new features over their previous generations without totally revamping the previous generation's design.

While I was on Audioholics yesterday, I came upon this recent preview: Sherbourn PT-7030 7.1 Channel Preamp/Processor Preview. On that page, if you click on the "Buy It Now" link, you'll be taken to the product's webpage on Sherbourn's site although it's not shipping yet.

As many of you know, Jade Design Inc., the parent company of Emotiva acquired Sherbourn Technologies in late 2010.

This new processor that will sell for $2499, shares a lot of similarities with the Emotiva XMC-1, minus video processing on the latter. It will also feature some flavor of Tact Audio's digital room correction as reported in the article: "Additionally, the PT-7030 includes a proprietary room correction system that was designed specifically for Sherbourn and is built under license from Tact Audio. This is actually a Sherbourn specific, professional caliber room correction package, and isn't the Tact Theater Dynamic Room Correction System.". OK, so they've probably made a few minor tweaks so that Tact can continue to sell their overpriced high-end processor.

Hmmm... Now I'm beginning to see a clearer picture here and it's starting to look like some of the design for the XMC-1 has been recycled from the Sherbourn design or perhaps been designed by the Sherbourn team. What do you guys think ?

Sherbourn has been a great company. I never even knew they were acquired by Jade Design until someone else here mentioned it recently. I think it bodes well for Emo's product line-up.

Best,

You can read it here on Audioholics.

I just bought a yamaha rxa-700 to hold me over for 329.00 and it works very well. It's cheap as hell and sounds very good.

Hmmm ....

I think this has been out for a little while, but I just saw it mentioned here, linked from High Def Digest:

http://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/products/new/706034.html

So it's pretty new, and it has Audyssey XT but not XT32. Strange.

I was considering this one at some point until they released the product brochure and the owner manual and I went through them. It took NAD a little over one year to come out from the time it was announced at CES 2011.

It uses NAD's Modular Design Construction (MDC) that allows one to install what appears to be about four expansion cards containing the digital processing circuity offering the various features. They may come out with a MultEQ XT32 module at some point in the future. It's just real lame that they haven't managed to include MultEQ XT32 yet on any of their products since XT32 was released. This doesn't impress me much coming from their R&D department.

For a modular design architecture that's been developed for over two years, it doesn't appear to be too flexible when I look at the available modules and the compatibility charts. For instance, there's no video processing in the base unit and when looking at the compatibility chart for their Sigma Designs VXP video processor "VM 200" module, which is a premium video processing technology, it doesn't appear to be supported for the new T 187 processor. Is it because of firmware design limitations or perhaps simply a poorly implemented modular architecture?

The T 187 processor has no balanced analog outputs whatsoever or any possibility of adding them in the future as the analog outputs are not modular. It uses "top level" Burr Brown DACs but they don't say which ones.

Furthermore, the modular design in no way guarantees the buyer a timely delivery of new features or that they can even be supported by the modular architecture. Other manufacturers like Denon or Onkyo/Integra churn out new models with the new features much more quickly than NAD has demonstrated in the last few years. Another possible gotcha may be the price for the new modules that could end up being overly priced.

All things considered, for the NAD T 187's asking price of $3000, I would pick up an Integra DHC-80.3 for $2600 without a second thought. It's built on a solid platform that been very well reviewed for many years, it has a ton more features like video processing and MultEQ XT32.

^^^

Nice summary. I didn't know that much about it until now.

I have a buddy who swears by NAD's analog components, amplifers, etc. But he hasn't has good luck with their AVRs and SSPs.

Kevin,

Coming from NAD and their expertise in analog design, it should sound great as do most of their components for their respective market segments including AVRs and SSPs. A buddy of mine also has owned without any issues a NAD receiver for about 7 years and it still sounds great.

If you read the reviews, NAD AVRs and SSPs are known to sound very good. I was really looking forward with great interest for this NAD T 187 processor. But as I said above, upon analyzing what it brings to the table for the asking price of $3000, I would go for the Integra or Onkyo Pro which have received rave reviews not only in terms of features but also sound quality.

If this 978 unit can just materialize some day before I loose my patience. Like many, I've been waiting for over 2 years lurking around here hoping for this thing to come out. If Marantz were to come out with an AV8006 as the successor to the AV8003, it would be a done deal for me.

I have an AV7005 now, and I agree. The AV7005 has been very trouble free and great sounding for me.

I agree , my setup now is very simple:
1)PS3 & Squeezebox Touch (Source)
2)Benchmark DAC 1 ( DAC & Preamp)
3)Outlaw 7125 AMP
4)Revel Performa speaker pair
and finally XLR to RCA Canare cable from Benchmark for analog connections.

This is the best sound I have ever experienced. I even gave up on 5.1/7.1 preamps after listening to this.

YES, we did very fine without HDMI, which was NOT designed with we consumers in mind. And, I'm not enamoured with further manipulation of my music notes by room correction software.
Man, if Outlaw did a full court press preamp that included top-notch MM and MC phono circuitry as well as digital, it could equal the multi-thousand dollar boutique brands' performance for an affordable price. Imagine that.

Indeed. Outlaws are you listening? I am getting real close to pulling the trigger on a new Parasound P7 but since it's balanced connections are not truely balance I am holding for now. Imagine what Outlaw could do with such a product!

I see that most everyone on this forum are "feature" driven. It has been pointed out that much more affordable products are already available with more "features". I could not care less for features especially those that never get used. Give me top shelf sound, simplicity, solid build, and I am in audio nirvana.

Cheers

My "interim" Sherwood 972 that I picked up for $600 sounds pretty good. I am impressed with Trinnov...