Pure Audio / Direct with a BDP-83

Well, I have made the plunge. I just couldn't wait any longer for the 997. I found 886 here in town for a good price and I went for it.

Now my questions will begin. If I understand the manual correctly both "Pure Audio" and "Direct" modes will not apply any processing to the incoming analog audio signal. Therefore, any room correction will have to be done by my BDP-83 prior to sending it out the analog outputs. Is that correct? If so, could I just use all the information that 886 room correction process measured, i.e. speaker distances and db levels?

OK, maybe I need to backup a second. How do the 886 DACs compare to the BDP-83's DACs? Is it possible that I would be getting better SQ sending DSD (listen to a lot of SACD) or PCM bit stream via HDMI and letting the 886 decode? Would that apply to both the multi-channel and the stereo outputs as the stereo ones are quite clearly (at least to my ears) better sounding. For that matter, how about the BDP-83SE (I was thinking of upgrading) compared to the 886's DACs, would I get better SQ if I went that route? After all, if it turns out the 886 has the best DACs of them all it would make more sense to stay with the BDP-83 and use HDMI. BTW, just to be clear, I have been referring to the DACs in these units, but I really think I should be looking at the analog output stages as a whole.

Thank You in advance for any comments you can provide.

Take a while and listen to all the sources through the 886 and then swap over to the BDP-83 for a while. I doubt you will hear much difference if they are at the same levels. Any comparison has to be done at the same levels to mean anything. Generally the source with the highest level will almost always sound better. Just the way it works.

I don't have an 886 (yet) but I do have BDP-83SE and I believe it's DACS are better than what's in the 886. If I do get one (which I'm still debating) I plan on connecting via multichannel analog and let the Oppo do the processing. From everything I've read that would seem to get the best results.

XeonMan, Thank You for you response.

On a related question, I see from your signature you are using Blue Jeans interconnects. Are you happy with them? I am getting their HDMI cables to use in this setup. But I was wondering about their XLR Balanced cables. My current ones are a little short so I was debating between buying new ones at the correct length or buying the Outlaw extensions. Do you use there XLR's? Are you happy with them? Would you go with extensions or new ones?

og33, Thank You for your response.

Are you currently using your 970/BDP-83SE with the multi-channel analog connections? If so, how did you do the room correction setup. I am not familiar with the 970. Does it have and auto calibration similar to the 990? My plan would be to just let the 886 do a auto calibration and then copy those numbers over to the BDP-83. Is that what you did?

I don't have the Blue Jeans XLR connects but their analog interconnects are excellent and at a very fair price. I have XLR connects I use with my 990 but they are from Monoprice but they are very good also at a great price.

Mdrconsult,
The 970 doesn't have the auto setup feature that the 990 has. Basically I calibrated it the old fashioned way, with a spl meter and the 970's generated test tones (white noise). I am using the Oppo via the multichannel analog connections. Just followed gonk's setup guide for the 970. I just ordered an 886 yesterday btw. I hope that works out.

The "no processing at all" is a bit misleading. The Onkyo does still adjust speaker levels and distances, even in Pure Audio mode. Or I would be hosed, as I have about 10X the amplifier power running my L&R mains as my side surrounds.

I am still not sure if I have a definitive answer. Based on your comments it sounds as if the 886 (similar to what the 990 did) does ADC then does DSP to adjust levels and distances (and possibly other processing as well such as bass management) and then does DAC for output to the amps. If this is the case then I suspect my BDP-83 setup would be the same as the 990. However, if it really is just a pass through to its analog output stages then I believe I would have to input all the distances and trim levels at the BDP-83. I can not find anywhere in either the Onkyo or Outlaw version of the manual that gives a clear answer to this.

Anyone else out there with an 886 and a BDP-83 using the multi-channel analog inputs? If so, how are you doing your setup? And do you find it to be an improvement over using HDMI for for High resolution audio like SACD?

It's an interesting question. I would also be curious how the 950 handled it, since it was supposedly guaranteed to be an analog path.

It maybe the signal is split, converted to digital and analyzed for level matching, and then an analog domain level equalizing/delay is applied to the original based on that.

[/quote]Anyone else out there with an 886 and a BDP-83 using the multi-channel analog inputs? If so, how are you doing your setup? And do you find it to be an improvement over using HDMI for for High resolution audio like SACD?[/quote]

My 886 was delivered on Tuesday and I'll be setting it up tomorrow/Saturday. I plan on trying it with multichannel analog and HDMI so I'll let you know what I find out. Probably my fault, but I'd assumed that the 886 would apply Audyssey to the multichannel inputs too...that may mean I don't hang onto it as I'd wanted to use the 83SE's DAC's over the 886's but still be able to apply room correction via Audyssey. Guess I'll see.

I use the BDP-83 for Bluray and CDs. I have it connected via 5 analog channels and HDMI. As I understand it, Audyssey applies its magic to the analog outputs just as it does in HDMI mode otherwise it would sound completely different than the HDMI mode. I don't find a big difference between the two but I don't have SACDs or DVD-As. I can't see anything in the manuals that say Audyssey is not applied.

XenonMan,
Good to know. I saw a response over in the 886 thread at AVS that stated Audyssey wasn't applied to any analog inputs. I didn't see anything referring to it in Outlaw's Guide to the 886 either, though the Audyssey section is pretty brief in that.

In direct and in pure audio mode, audyssey is not applied. But I don't know if all A>D>A steps are removed. What I don't know is how speaker level settings are maintained (and they are) in these modes.

What my (885) manual says is that in direct mode "minimal processing" is applied, which I assume to mean distance and level matching. In pure audio, it says "the display and video processing circuitry are turned off" to minimize noise sources in the unit.

Nowhere does it say all DA steps and processing are turned off completely. So my guess is they are not.

I'm buried at work right now, but I'll try to pop back in here later and offer what insight I can muster on this subject. For the moment, suffice to say that the 885, 886, and 950 do not have any A/D/A conversion for the multichannel analog inputs. That's why Audyssey is impossible with the 885 and 886 using the multichannel analog, and why digital bass management is impossible with all of them. Stereo analog inputs are a whole different matter, but I don't think we're talking about that here.

That's what I was afraid of. Guess that kind of defeats the purpose of getting the 83SE over the standard 83.

The 83SE is not of benefit unless you are using the analog output, that is correct.

Thank You Gonk, any additional comments will be appreciated as well.

You have cleared up one of my questions about how the analog inputs are handled by the 886. Therefore, as I stated at the beginning of this thread, any processing of the signal will have to be done by the BDP-83. However, a closer look at the BDP-83 shows that it really has limited capabilities in this regard, i.e. 80Hz fixed crossover for small speakers, speaker distances must be set the same for left/right pairs, etc. I suppose something like an ICBM-1 could be used to improve the bass management. But, this still is no where near the capabilities of the 886 with or without Audyssey.

In the end the question (obviously a theoretical question) comes back to will this yield better SQ than using the HDMI outputs and letting the 886 do all the processing and DAC? How about the BDP-83SE are its DACs enough of an upgrade to make it worth while to use the multi-channel analog?

My personal experience so far has been limited to the HDMI connection. I have just gotten it fully configured using the Audyssey and the SMS-1. When I tried the analog inputs it was very clear that they are in need of additional setup, i.e. distance, sound level, and bass management. Before I go through all that trouble I was wondering if at least in theory it was going to be worth my while. Or should I just go ahead and jump and get the BDP-83SE? My goal is to get the best SQ I can for my SACD and stereo CD listening.

I'm wondering if the 83SE is worth keeping using it just for cd playback via analog with an 886, as I can't get Audyssey via the multichannel analogs. I really noticed an improvement on cd's with the 83SE and my 970, and multichannel music was very good, but my room layout is a sonic nightmare, and thus I wanted Audyssey to help out. I'm not sure at this point if I should even unbox the 886 as it won't work the way I want with the Oppo I have, or sell the SE and go with the standard model? I'd be giving up some sq on 2 channel analog, but I wouldn't be 'wasting' the DAC's on the SE if I have to use HDMI to get Audyssey.

For CD listening (or any other two-channel audio you might want to play with), the stereo analog output is certainly worthwhile. I'd suggest experimenting a bit: set the 886 up so you can compare multichannel analog output to HDMI output, see what benefit you are getting from Audyssey, and what you prefer. If you settle on the HDMI as providing the better sound, you could sell the SE then and get a stock 83.

Would it be worth the effort to "copy" the Audyssey settings over to the BDP-83 so it has the same output as the 886 as far as distance and locations and settings?

gonk,
That's what I thought I'd try. Just kind of frustrating that I found this out after I ordered the 886. My own fault though.

Got my 886 last week and had a chance to do a preliminary setup on it. So far I like it. 2 channel analog sounds good, and I actually think I like it better than the 970. It does have a ton of features (most of which I probably won't use). I've hooked it up via multichannel analog and HDMI, but thus far have only listened to multichannel sources via HDMI. I'm going to try multichannel analog this weekend.