Outlaw's Guide to the 886!

I missed the reference to this when I first read through the announcement. This deserves a thread of its own. I just downloaded a copy (the server was slow - a lot of you must be doing the same right now).

I know what I'm reading this evening.

My biggest complaint (in fact my only complaint) as an 886 owner is the Onkyo Owner's Manual. As I've mentioned before the English is well-written - it's just that for such a complex piece of gear they do a horrible job of explaining its many features - if they even bother at all.

Even as I skim through it now, I see Outlaw's version as a huge improvement over Onkyo's - much more so that even their version of the SMS-1 manual is over Velodyne's. (And I loved Outlaw's version of that manual.)

While a deeper read is needed, so far it looks like Outlaw has completely demystified the 886!

Jeff Mackwood

I bought the 886 and was very happy to hear about this Outlaw guide!!! Can't wait to read it!

Took a few tries to be able to download the Outlaw Guide to PR-SC886.

Whoever wrote it did a fantastic job...

On Outlaw's product page (http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/886.html) upper right column, there's a link to the "Owner's Manual". Can anyone make that work? When I try I see an obviously malformed URL. If you can make that work, can you post the URL that worked for you?

I think the link is broken. Try this link instead.

That did it. Many thanks.

Hello gonk.
What do you think of 886 vs 990 re analog? I owned an 885 and was not impressed with 2ch or 5ch Dvd-audio music vs 990. What do you think. i tried a midlevel $600 Marantz receiver as a preamp and liked that a lot. Amp= 200w/ch x5
Many thanks. I admire your posts.
Joel

I haven't heard an 886, but like you I have spent some time with the 885. The differences between the two are minimal and appear mainly related to new features in the firmware, so I would expect the two Onkyos to sound very similar. Maybe I should try to write down my thoughts on the 885 one of these days - probably not a full review, but at least a little commentary...

I found that the 885 with Audyssey (in a relatively well-behaved acoustical space, albeit not really acoustically treated) was pretty comparable to the 990. Had I gone to the 885 in search of improved sound, that probably would have been a bit of a disappointment. Fortunately, I was just looking for a platform to use for BD player testing that could reasonably match my 990. I felt that the 885 did that, particularly for digital sources.

I came away feeling that Audyssey was not bad, but it didn't really excite me either. THX modes were similar - I used them for a couple months, then found myself shifting back to plain on PLIIx for many things.

I didn't really do a focused head-to-head comparison with multichannel music. I did get a surprise during beta testing of the BDP-83, which I mention in my BDP-83 review . I found that in some cases we preferred the sound of the BDP-83's analog output to the sound of digital output through the 885. That means that even though the BDP-83 has less sophisticated bass management, less flexible speaker delay adjustments, and no room correction software the analog section still sounded better than the 885. It was subtle, and we originally noticed it while switching back and forth on a CD of a pretty good live recording of a piano solo, but it was initially offered as an unsolicited observation from my wife while she was basically ignoring what I was doing at the time.

I'm gonna sound like a broken record here, but the 886 sounds exactly like any well-designed and functioning pre/pro should: quiet, distortion free, flat response. Both analogue and digital.

As Gonk says, there is plenty of difference between how the "processed" modes sound - as expected (but not, to my ear, in terms of those three basic parameters: noise, distortion, and frequency response.) The neat thing is that the 886 lets you sample them all!

I just bought a used Oppo 980H, which I'll be picking up in a couple of weeks and installing a week later, to replace a Denon 2200 that I've been using for SACD and DVD-A. I'm looking forward to the simplicity of running only an HDMI cable from it to the 886 - as well as running SACD's DSD directly to the 886.

Over on the AVS forum, there is a thread for Onkyo updates, including the 886. I posted a question if my firmware was current and I recieved no responses. So.....

Can someone please verify what the current FW versions are? Maybe someone can post a link to these as well.

I think the main FW is 1.4.

What are the three DSP versions?

What is the current HDMI version?

I received my PR-SC886 as a father's day gift from my boys. I purchased an Outlaw 7700 amp in Nov. and was waiting for the 997. My sons own Onkyo receivers and they knew I was getting antsy to get my sys. up and running and so they gave me the 886. I believe it is a very nice gesture on Outlaw's part to offer the 886 while we wait for the 997. I also saw the updates for the 886 and was wondering if Outlaw would be featuring them in the future?

As I understand it, the unit is shipping with the latest firmware already installed. If updates are released, I'm sure Outlaw would post a link to them.

fedxsteve, what main FW version is on your 886, 1.4 or 1.5? Also, what versions DSP (there are 3 DSPs on the 886) and HDMI is on your 886?

Thanks.

The only FW version on my set is 87 1.01/08801a. I'll check the DSP's and the HDMI later today and re-post.

Can't seem to bring up the DSP or HDMI info. I don't know if the new versions will be noticible to me so I'm happy with what I have right now. My sys sounds great.

Hey,

Am I the first one to notice that the picture of the rear panel in the Outlaw Guide for the 886 has a problem? If you look real close you will see that the model number under the Onkyo label is PR-SC885. What's up with that?

I am running FW 1.04, and my 886 sounds amazing as well!

Two questions on my 886;

1) I have a sony 400 disc jukebox DVD player hooked up to the 886 via HDMI and the 5.1 analogue connections for the SACDs I have in the player. How can I set the 886 menu to accept the analog audio (thru the 5.1 inputs) for SACDs and HDMI for DVD from this one DVD palyer?

2) I am about to get a new PS3 slim. What should I set the audio output (HDMI cable to the 886) on the PS3 so the 886 decodes the DTS MA and HD Dolby soundtracks? Plain "Bitstream"?

Thanks!

Would using a seperate phono preamp improve the turntable SQ on the 886?

See page 20 of Outlaw's guide. The setting is discussed there. You will assign the 7.1 analog input to the same input that your DVD changer is using and then use the AUDIO SEL button to toggle between digital and analog input for that source. If it's an SACD player with HDMI output, though, shouldn't the HDMI connection carry either PCM or DSD?
I don't keep close track of the PS3's settings (they're a bit odd, I don't have one, and last time I looked you couldn't just simply download a user manual - you had to navigate their silly web site each time you wanted to look something up), but "bitstream" should be what you want to allow the 886 to decode. I'll say that where you decode TrueHD and DTS-HD MA to multichannel PCM is not terribly critical - as I've mentioned somewhere else recently, even with my 885 I've got my BDP-83 outputting multichannel PCM at the moment.

Caution: don't assign the HDMI output from the DVD player to the AUX2 input. It will cause possible problems / conflict with the AUX2's fixed Optical input and some signals from the DVD player (notably bitstreamed "higher end" Dolby and DTS signals) will simply not work. (PCM stereo and multichnanel will work however). This is NOT covered in the Outlaw Guide - yet - and is very poorly covered in the Onkyo manual.

This is really curious, Jeff, as I've used AUX2 on the 885 with bitstreamed TrueHD/DTS-HD MA tracks from a Blu-ray player without issue. I wonder what they changed in the 886?

This is one benefit to the 886 Guide's electronic nature - they can update it at will as they learn more or as firmware changes happen.

Gonk,

I've got the time to expand on this a little further. Here's what I've already relayed to the Outlaws.

Because I’m chock-a-block with components in my main HT, even the 886 runs very close to not having enough inputs. I bought my first Blu-ray player a couple of months ago and decided I’d connect it to the 886 using only its HDMI cable. Up until now I’ve only used that player for CDs, DVDs, and one Blu-ray disc (just to see what the picture looked like.) It was only a week or so ago that I popped a Blu-ray disc in and sat down to enjoy a DTS Master Audio experience that a problem arose.

As suggested in the Outlaw Guide (and what I figured out myself when I first hooked up the Blue-ray player) I connected the HDMI cable to HDMI1 and assigned it to AUX2. CDs and DVDs played great. But when I tried to play the DTS Master Audio version of a Blu-ray disc all I got was a digital “ticking.” I checked the settings on the player and it has a setting where you can specify either “bitstream” output for Dolby True HD / DTS Master Audio (in which case you are expecting the pre/pro to do the decoding) or “PCM” (in which case the player does the decoding). With bitstream selected all I got was the digital ticking. With PCM the 886 immediately identified it as multi-channel PCM and played it perfectly. I checked every setting on the player and the 886 that I could think of – but nothing corrected the problem with a bitstream DTS Master signal over HDMI.

The next morning I pulled out the 886’s owner’s manual. It took a while, but on page 53 I found some somewhat cryptic notes that clued me into the problem. It turns on that the AUX2 input is fixed to its front panel Optical input. (See the “Default assignment” column of the table on page 53: “FRONT (fixed)”) You can assign an HDMI input to it and everything will be great with the audio and video for that input EXCEPT that it will not pick up a bistream signal through HDMI! (Onkyo’s manual, page 53, item 4, 2nd bullet says: “ ‘AUX2’ is used only for the digital input from the front panel terminals. When HDMI IN is assigned to ‘AUX2’ in the ‘HDMI Input Setup’ on page 50, the same HDMI IN can be selected.” Not exactly a clear warning or explanation!)

When I assigned that HDMI input to any of the other inputs everything worked great. The bitstream signal left the player, entered the 886, and was beautifully processed into room-filling DTS Master Audio sound.

Bottom line: at least in my case the advice on page 48 of the Outlaw Guide is incomplete and potentially misleading in the case of an attempt to assign an HDMI input to AUX2. This tip/trick should not be tried with HDMI connections, for the reason shown above.

Maybe this is just a quirk of my Blu-ray player (Panasonic BD60) / 886 combo. But my guess is that it will be an issue for others as well.

That's weird, especially since HDMI multichannel PCM works fine. It sounds like bitstreaming DD and DTS also works fine over HDMI. I'm going to have to try this again with my OPPO Blu-ray tonight, and may even try to slip the BD30 out of the bedroom to try it.

The quote on page 53 of the Onkyo manual ("‘AUX2’ is used only for the digital input from the front panel terminals. When HDMI IN is assigned to ‘AUX2’ in the ‘HDMI Input Setup’ on page 50, the same HDMI IN can be selected.”) doesn't seem to define any limitation on using the HDMI input. It has to be an HDMI input that is already being used for video on AUX2 (the HDMI Input Setup reference), but that's true of any source - audio must follow video's lead in that regard.

Trust me Gonk. It's a real head scratcher! Spent a few hours pondering it - and a fitful night's sleep.

At least I'm now intimately familiar with almost every menu, sub-menu and sub-sub menu on both the BD60 and 886!

The real clue was the "FRONT (fixed)" that I noted below - which led me to try assigning the BD60's HDMI output to another 886 input.

I haven't tried using my BD30 yet, but I've confirmed that I can get TrueHD bitstreams into the 885's AUX2 input via HDMI. Weird that the 886 is having trouble with it.

I've been exchanging emails with someone from Onkyo about firmware upgrades etc. on the off chance that this is a known problem that they've already addressed. Will post what I find out.

Jeff, check out this post at AVS . It appears that the 886 is supposed to match the 885 in this regard - AUX2 should work with HDMI inputs.

Thanks Gonk.

Amongst answers to some other questions, here's what the Onkyo "Help" rep said on the topic: "Also AUX2 DIGITAL OUT is fixed at the FRONT DIGITAL or ANALOG outputs there is no way to change that."

They still have not provided ANY information as to what problems various firmware upgrades are supposed to solve - or features that it might add.

I keep plugging... but wouldn't it be nice if a future version of the Outlaw's 886 Guide addressed the topic of firmware upgrades (what they are and how to do them safely at home).

I love answers that I can disprove. They give me so much faith in all other information that I get...
Good luck on your endeavor. I haven't looked yet to see if the 886 has a firmware update thread at AVS like the 885 did. It was not a straightforward process on the 885 - made the 990 seem simple.

Gonk, the AVS forum does have an Onkyo firmware update page and has the latest FW and DSP updates on the first page.

The main FW is 1.4 and it is somewhat easy to do. Yes, the 990 was easy to update the FW, but I thought the Onkyo was actually a little easier as long as you have a PC or laptop with a RS 232 plug OR you have a USB/RS232 cable (I bought one from monoprice).

The DSP update is very simple. Burn the image to a CD and hook up a optical cable from your CD (or DVD) player to Optical #1 on the 886 and play it.

I have read that page (and a lot of the 111 pages that follow!) and while there are some nuggets of advice to be had, there are also lots and lots of warnings.

As I said, it would be really nice if someone could compile a list of what these firmware and DSP updates actually do; what problems do they solve and what features do they add. It would then make it much easier to decide whether to take the risk of doing them - or not. If anyone knows of such a list I'd appreciate a pointer to it.

Thanks.

Agreed. I emailed Onkyo asking about the FW and DSP updates. i was told its not public info. I replied with my displeasure at that response after spending a lot of money, especially when other mfgrs make it a very easy process to update thier products.

I was able to do mine fairly easily.

This just received from Onkyo Product Support (after several exchanges of emails)in response to my question: "What firmware etc. upgrades are available for my 886, what do these upgrades change / fix, and how can I arrange to download and install them?": "Unless you are experiencing any issues there are no updates needed for the PR-SC886."

Which of course begs the question (which I won't bother to ask since I expect a similar no-help response): how do I know if I'm experiencing an issue or not, missing some functionality or not, etc. if they don't present themselves as obvious?

Or how about: "You've gone through the trouble of developing updated firmware etc. Why are you being so secretive in not telling your customers about it?"

I contrast this "support" with a piece of software that I licensed a couple of years ago. I get a regular update from the company, with a detailed explanation as to what bugs it fixes and/or improvements it contains, for free, without having to ask for it.

Yep, this is one reason why I don't recommend Onkyo gear to people anymore. Their poor customer support and sub par quality control have taken a huge toll on the brand.

As for updating firmware, yeah, even on the flagship RDC-7.1 preamp I would have to send it to one of their support depots (nearest one is in Denver, I believer) to get it updated. How ridiculous is that?

I'm waiting patiently for the 997. Sale of the RDC-7.1 will be more than enough to cover the purchase.

I don't get Outlaw selling Onkyo on their site. I don't care about the deals.
"I want my 997"

When I try to download the Outlaws guide to the 886, the Outlaw site gives me a user ID and password. The next screen asks for the username and password but doesn't accpet it. Is there something I am missing. I tried my Saloon login IDs and that didn't work either. Any suggestions?

Never mind!! I was missing a letter in my password

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Here is some 'tech junkie' info for ethernet and RS232 interface control of the 886.

Once you have connected an ethernet cable to your 886 and you know the network (IP) address that your DHCP server assigned the 886, or you assigned manually through the hardware setup menu, you put that IP into your browser's address line and open an HTML interface page onboard the 886.

For those of you who may be new to this idea it will seem VERY cool.

HERE is an .xls document with all of the control codes listed for the various modes. You'll need to have a MS Office compatible spreadsheet reader installed to view it. Enjoy!