First review of the Sherwood Newcastle R972 Trinnov processing!

Posted over at AVS by "Chuck Back":

The Sherwood Newcastle R-972 with Trinnov Optimizer is up and running! Before getting into my listening impressions, I thought I’d run through the setup process to give you an idea of what it does and a bit about how it does it.

The first step is to place the Trinnov four-microphone array. I mounted it on a tripod set at ear height in my main listening position, pointed at screen center. The mic orientation determines the system’s center image location, in the both horizontal and vertical planes. The mic cable connects to an RJ45 connector on the receiver’s back panel.

Setup menus are accessed using the receiver’s on-screen display. To calibrate, you navigate to the Auto Setup screen and choose a memory setting for the current microphone location. Three settings can be stored to cover different listening locations or room configurations.

When calibrating, the receiver feeds test signals through each speaker, allowing the Trinnov Optimizer to locate each speaker in space. It measures distance, horizontal and vertical angles, level, frequency response, polarity, and more (for example, if the left and right front speakers are miswired, it figures out which speaker is on the left side of the room and assigns the left receiver channel to that speaker). Once these measurements are completed, an OSD shows the horizontal angle, vertical angle, and distance from the microphone to each loudspeaker.

This gives the user the opportunity to review the settings and make any changes to the system setup or speaker locations before the onboard processor makes its calculations. (If anything is changed, the test signals need to be re-run). The calculations take about 20 - 25 minutes, and include all system and Trinnov Optimizer settings. Once they are complete, an additional OSD screen shows the level and delay that the processor has calculated and implemented for each channel. The information from both screens is stored in memory for future recall.

Next is the Trinnov setup for each input. These choices made here will be the default for each input, but there is a menu available that allows these parameters to be changed while listening without changing the default.

1. Trinnov Position

As described above, there are three memory settings for listening positions. This selects the default position for the input.

2. Trinnov Room EQ

Corrects the frequency response of the system using one of the following characteristics:

- Flat – Flat frequency response to 20KHz.

- A.Phile 1 – Voices all speakers to emulate the qualities of the front left and right speakers. Can be used for systems with high-end speakers as the main pair.

- A.Phile 2 – Corrects only the low frequency response of all channels.

- Natural – Typical response of well-EQ'd room with slight LF boost and slight HF rolloff.

3. Trinnov Spatial Mode

This is where the magic happens. Makes spatial corrections to the system, giving users four choices. This capability is unique to Trinnov.

- DLY+ LVL – Distance and sound levels only are matched for all channels.

- Autoroute – Using the center location determined by the orientation of the microphone when the calibration is performed, it routes each input channel to the speaker located closest to the nominal channel location. For example, if calibration was done with the microphone facing the left surround speaker, Trinnov would assign the center channel signal to the left surround speaker, assign the right front channel signal to the left front speaker, and assign the other channels accordingly. Useful for unusual and multi-use room configurations.

- 2D Remap – The audio images for each channel are reproduced in the precise locations determined by Trinnov Remapping (see #4 below), in the horizontal plane only. For any speaker not in the proper physical location for its channel, Trinnov will apply correction so that the sound is heard in the proper channel location, in the same horizontal plane as the speaker. For example, if the surround speakers are not symmetrically mounted, listeners will hear the surround information as if both speakers were ideally located.

- 3D Remap – Provides the same Remapping as 2D, adding compensation for incorrect elevation. For example, this moves a center channel image from a speaker located below the screen up to the screen center along with the left and right speakers. This setting provides the full Trinnov spatial correction.

4. Trinnov Remapping

Two choices that produce soundfields based on speaker locations defined by generally accepted industry practices for multichannel film and music mixing. This gives listeners an unprecedented ability to hear at home what the mixers heard in the studio.

- Cinema – Front channel width extends ± 22.5° to the left and right of the center point (45° total width). Surrounds are placed in cinema orientation.

- Music – Front channel width extends ± 30° to the left and right of the center point (60° total width). Surrounds are placed in music mixing orientation.

Listening Impressions

The R-972 is set up in my theater room, which is a dedicated space about 13.5' x 22.5' with an 8' ceiling. There is no special room treatment, just a fair amount of fabric surface on furniture and carpet, so the room is quite live-sounding. I have a Stewart 49” x 87” 1.78:1 screen and a Projectiondesign 720p projector. The 7.1 speaker setup has original M&Ks: MPS1611Ps up
front with SS150 surrounds and dual MX5100 subwoofers. I also have a Samsung 46” LCD flat-screen available for 1080p evaluation.

The room's symmetry and lack of windows makes for reasonable imaging, but I am always aware of the room when listening. Everything sounds tightly contained within the room dimensions, and I’ve always wished that the room was wider and the ceiling taller.

I set up the Trinnov in Natural response, 3D Remapping and Cinema mode. Switching the Trinnov in for the first time was unlike any other new component substitution I’ve experienced. Typically, I can identify numerous sonic parameters where a new component is better, but Trinnov’s changes are at an entirely different level, improving the entire soundfield, or more accurately, the entire room environment, floor to ceiling and wall to wall.

The Sherwood R-972 with Trinnov is the first component that provides spatial correction, so it makes improvements that have never been available before. The correction produces a stunning change that is actually like being in a new room. The soundfield is now panoramic, and it defies definition by the room walls. My room has opened up both horizontally and vertically in ways that bring to mind the best listening rooms I’ve ever been in.

A couple of factors really stand out for me. First, everything is just easier to hear. Listening is so much more relaxed and natural, it seems like less ear/brain processing is taking place. Each element in the sound mix is easily resolved as a separate element among many. This ability to hear “into the mix” is a quality I’ve heard before in good recording studios playing master tapes, but never to this degree in home audio/video systems. Think of the resolution of a great recording heard over great headphones, but in three dimensional space around you instead of being inside your head.

The second factor, which is somewhat related, is the clarity of sounds panned in the mix heard in 3D space. Imagine the sound of an aircraft flyby that starts in the surrounds and moves through the room to the front (e.g., Pearl Harbor). In a typical home theater system, the sound is heard first originating from one of the surround speakers, then moving somewhat erratically through the room, with the sound’s character changing as the front channels take over from the surrounds.

With Trinnov, the sound can be heard as if it originates outside the room’s side wall, then moving smoothly through the room without timbre change, until its complete fade can be heard in the front soundstage. This is a quality that I’ve heard in big mix rooms where there is plenty of space either around or to the speakers, but never in home systems.

A good example can be heard in the Pixar logo desk lamp sound. Its first squeak no longer appears within the right speaker. Instead, it’s heard first at a point outside the right wall of my room, with each subsequent bounce moving towards screen left with no change in timbre.

The front soundstage is now at vertical screen center, even though the center channel speaker sits more than two feet below that point and the left and right speakers sit above the center channel but below screen center. The coherency of the soundstage around the room is incredible, especially considering the asymmetry of boundary environments around my surround speakers. Trinnov’s cleanup of a couple of bass modes has significantly increased low frequency articulation, which particularly helps with the rhythm and pace of music.

Ah, music. Regardless of the source resolution, listening to music is especially addictive! I’ll try to post more on this later, but just let me say that The Beatles’ Love with Trinnov is an incredible experience. It’s been awhile since I’ve tried a new audio component that was this much fun!



So how do all you folks who couldn't wait for the 997 and jumped ship feel now? Wow!

Sounds promising!

After letting Trinnov perform setup, is it possible to manually adjust, starting with the Trinov settings as a base? or do you have to start from scratch?

This would be very useful if a person hears better from one ear than from the other, or prefers a little more bass than Trinnov thinks there should be.

We don't really know yet - at least, not from what I've heard. If you are talking about manually adjusting channel trims, though, I'm not sure that it would work with the remapping that the AVS post describes. If you changed the levels for one speaker and the Trinnov was using that speaker for the remapping of other channels, that could mess up the effect. I'm just guessing there, though, as the little I've read in the R-972 manual was not very clear.

Peter just posted a bit of info over in the AVS Fourms with a bit of info on the Trinnov processing....

This is really beginning to sound like an awesome Pre/Pro!

This is very good news. I'm pretty happy with the 990, but this really gets the upgrade juices flowing.

Hopefully, we see more positive posts as these get into the hands of more users.

Scott

I sure hope it is possible to raise the center channel level after doing a Trinnov setup.

Sounds like the Trinnov processing is living up to its advance billing. For those with badly-skewed room set-ups it sounds like help's on the way. It also sounds like it will be useful with more conventional set-ups.

For some time I've had five identical speaker stacks handling the front and side surround duties, with the centre stack behind an acoustically-transparent screen. I've been touting that approach, for those that can pull it off, for some time. Having the acoustic centre of each speaker at head level, with the centre speaker's acoustic centre almost right at the centre of the screen, makes for a big improvement in the surround sound experience of TV, movies, concerts, sports, etc. If you can't do it "naturally" then having Trinnov do it for you just might be the next best thing.

Thanks for the great initial review, of Trinnov. I can't wait for the the 997, as i am in desperate need for a new pre/pro.

Hi, just letting you know I was able to hear the 972 yesterday. I put my review up at AVS. Note that I am not an expert, just someone who loves the hobby and great sound! Here is the review:

Hi guys,
I wanted to post my impression's of the new unit. I was able to stop by the demo yesterday and meet Jeff from Sherwood. He gave me a really nice demo of the unit, on a variety of material. It was a 5.1 setup. The Front 3 were Tannoy (small speakers, with 4 inch drivers I believe). The left and right were approx 5 feet apart, and the center was approx 1 foot below. The rear speakers were in the ceiling type. The sub was a Velodyne (the sub settings on the back were bypassed and setup by Trinnov). The room was pretty big, with thin carpeting, and non treated walls. There were two door openings to the left and right of the screen, and it was pretty noisy from the people talking and moving in and out from the other room. There was a door opening in the back as well.

The Trinnov was set on the Natural curve. The first clip we watched was from Pearl Harbor. I was expecting the setup to sound decent, but be limited by the rear speakers that were pointed into the floor in back of us. From hearing in-ceiling speakers before in different setups I noticed that the sound never panned as seamless as my setup at home. The planes started to fly by, and pans from back to front were very good. I did not see any real limitation with the in ceiling speakers. They seemed to be tonally perfect to the front three. The pans from left to right were equally as good, with a sound stage that seemed much larger than the 5 foot speaker front spacing. I was very impressed with what I was hearing. He then cycled to a different input with the Trinnov not engaged (distance and levels were the only thing set). You can set each input up individually for different Trinnov settings. With Trinnov off, the pans were decent, but you definitely noticed a limitation with the rear speakers. Also, the sound stage was not as wide, and you could hear the low center channel.
We then moved on to a Dave Matthews Concert. The Trinnov was set to Natural. Again I was extremely impressed. It felt as if you were in the middle of the crowd. It sounded just like you were there. It almost felt like a DSP was active, one that did not add any fake echoes (there were none activated, I asked). I watch many concert Blu-Rays, and was very impressed (my current favorite is the Police Certifiable). He then put on another concert clip. This time he had me stand facing the right wall. He used the in-ceiling speaker as the right, and the front right speaker as the left. The speakers did throw an image that was centered between them. It was not perfect, but very good considering two different speakers, with one pointing into the floor, and one pointing to the back of the room!).

After a few other demos, he put on Transformers (Trinnov Natural). Now I am very familiar with this disc, since I use it to demo and setup my audio often. The opening sequence was very impressive, with decent bass from the Velodyne blending nicely with the small Tannoys and rear speakers. Now I run much larger speakers and sub's at home, so it's hard to compare the smaller speakers (they did not output anywhere near what my subs and mains are capable of). But, what I did find impressive was the clarity of the dialog. I moved around the room, and the voices remained very clear, and the sound effects were still good. When Trinnov was turned off, you could tell the sound was coming from the speakers, and that the voices came from the center channel below the screen. The overall sound field was reduced, it just did not seem like you were in the action.

Jeff did say that it may be possible in the future to download new target curves for the Trinnov. The one thing I did not see (and the option was grayed out, so it may be possible to enable it in the future) was on screen volume display. To me this is no big deal, I currently do not use it, but I thought It may be a limitation for some. The unit will pass the 1080P signal in bypass mode, I was happy to see that. I usually do not use any scaling in the receiver.

Overall I was very impressed, and cannot wait to see what it can do in my setup. All my speakers are elevated on the walls (the front three are above my projection screen), so it would be interesting to see the results.

I'd love to hear how the video is implemented. I think Onkyo's ISF calibration options are fantastic. Per input options would be great as well.

I did not look too long at the video options, though I did see black level adjustment, etc.. I believe it was per input as well.

Here's what Stereojeff posted at the AVS forum:

You are correct: distance and level are not user adjustable when Trinnov is engaged. The rationale: Trinnov measures distance to the millimeter including physical delay caused by actual distance and phase delay caused by crossover filters. We know of no way that the user would be able to improve the automatic measurement. As to level, in the home Trinnov's ability to re-map the soundfield is one of its most remarkable features. Remapping cannot work unless phase, frequency response, output level and distance are fixed.

However, it appears that the LFE level can be adjusted after Trinnov mapping:

LFE is independently adjustable. So is your subwoofer level--at the sub. Regarding the others, please keep an open mind until you hear the receiver with Trinnov engaged.

In my experience, having the ability to raise the center channel volume ("trim level") on my 950 is very important. Way too many movies have the effects and/or music just too loud in relation to the dialog, at least in plain old dolby digital. Is this problem better or worse on Dolby True HD/DTS HD lossless audio?

Another question:

In the 997 will we be able to disable Trinnov?
Would be good for A-B comparison.

I think I've read somewhere that it will be possible. The R-972 manual shows some options for configuring Trinnov at each input, which would support that idea.