Hurrah! Can't wait

Wow! great price and eq!

Add me to the list of definitely purchasing this!

And announced on the day you got your 7900. I guess our racks will be looking similar in the new year.

Scott, I can't PM you. Sorry to post this in public.

One of the links in the announcement is broken. It is this one: http://trinnov.com/research.php

It probably should be: http://www.trinnov-audio.com/research.php

[EDIT]
Never mind, it looks like the punctuation around the URL is causing it to break. The URL is correct but the board is attaching a period at the end...

Thanks, I just deleted the extra punctuation!

Scott

I'll be telling the few people that give me Birthday and Christmas presents that all I want this year is CASH so I can get the 997 when it is available.

I was getting tired of waiting for this announcement and almost sprung for a Denon AVR-5308. Glad I didn't. I will be replacing my 990 with a 997.

Hooray for Outlaw!

Put me on the waiting list!

This is such great news. I have been waiting a long time to hear this. Good job guys! Hope we dont have to wait too long into 2009.

Outlaw 970 / 7125
Panasonic BD-50 Blu Ray
Dish 622
Western Digital 750 gb storage drive
Sanyo Z4 Projector
Elite 120 Screen
Ascend Acoustics 340Se LCR
Ascend Accoustics 170se Rear and Effects
Velodyne CH10
Squeeze Box Media
Harmony 880
Wii/ Wii fit

Good stuff...

I predicted this 7 days ago...

http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/7/t/000285/p/4.html

THANK YOU!

This is awesome! A link to the announcement was posted over at AV123's forum as well. Consider me signed up and saving!!!

Hallelulah!!! certainly looks like it will be well worth the wait.

Count me in, I have been waiting on the fence to finally jump into Blu Ray so with this announcement plus the new Oppo Blu Ray player coming around the same time, looks like a great way to start the new year.

I guess it's time to start looking for a buyer for the trusted ol 990.

Hope everything goes according to plan for the Outlaw design/manufacturing teams.

Wow, this is bizarre. After two intensive days of book editing, I decided to goof off this afternoon and watch "Stardust" (HD DVD) and "Heroes S2" (Blu-ray). While I was watching, and listening to the tracks passed to analog inputs for the HD and optical for the Blu (so I didn't get the DTS-MA lossless quality), I found myself wondering when the Outlaws were going to announce a pre/pro that would accept these new formats in digital form.

Now I just have to watch for that signup list. (Ah, the giddy waiting that I last experienced with the original Outlaw 950. )

Bob

Did they mention how many HDMI ins/outs?

The 997 will have 4 HDMI inputs and 1 HDMI output.

Peter

Phono preamp?

SACD and DVD-A decoding from HDMI input?

In the Announcement, Scott says "external beta testing by your fellow Outlaws". Is there anyway to make a request to beta test the 997?
I've done 10 years of beta testing for Microsoft and a 2 years for a major cell phone company.

I think Nine Hundred & Ninety Seven dollars would be the perfect price point.

Pulling everything together is an all-new graphical user interface and menu system based on the easy-to-use system originally developed by the Outlaws for the Model 990. This means that anyone familiar with the existing Model 990 and Model 970 processors will be up and running in minutes.

Does this mean that the new 997 will actually have a GUI overlay similar to the Denon 3808? Or will this be just the analog interface found on the 970? The Sherwood Newcastle brochure shows a GUI similar to the Denon 3808 but appears much easier to navigate (based on pictures from SN). Also, will it overlay on screen similar to the present 970 (and 990 I believe)? I know the Denon will overlay using HDMI, while others will not overlay the information over HDMI unless it is a 480i signal. SN calls it "Advance GUI display" Just curious for those of us who cannot read the small print on components. By the way the SN 972 looks very promising but if they do what they did with the P965, I'm in.

We don't really know what they are doing with the GUI. I would suspect that it will not look quite the same as the 950/970/990 menu structure simply because of how much has been added, but they may try to retain as much "keep it simple" as possible.

As for SACD/DVD-A decoding via HDMI, any HDMI input that will take multichannel PCM will do DVD-A (once MLP is unpacked by the player, that's what you end up with). I don't recall if Sherwood has mentioned DSD support for those (few) players that can output it, but I would say odds are better than 50/50 they have DSD support. (Of course, opinions on whether it sounds better to output DSD or PCM from SACD's vary from person to person and seem to depend heavily on the equipment being used).

As for beta testing, you can always just ask them - that's how I ended up doing testing for OPPO's 981HD two years ago. At one time Oytlaw had a beta test application of some sort, but I don't know what they do now.

I for one is really excited and ready to sign up now!!!

While I understand your comments from an economic point of view (especially since the 5308 lists for about four times the price of the 997) don't forget that the 5308 has some features that offer a reason for the higher price. Beside the obvious (like 50% more HDMI inputs and two HDMI outputs along with more of just about every kind of input and output) there are important things such as Silicon Optics' Realta Video processor instead of the less capable (but still good) Reon VP. And Denon Link has always been a favorite of mine - especially if you have a Denon DVD player because you get a direct no nonsense digital link from your SACD/DVD-A sources to the receiver without an HDMI intermediary. And the 5380 and similar has a slew of other internal components of a quality that would be hard to match at under $1500 list. Plus Audyssey Pro has several features like dynamic EQ that Trinnov doesn't seem to offer.

However, in the real world of 21st century economics it is highly significant that something like the 997 is able to pull off such a product with the features it offers at its price point. I predict that when this product comes to market it will affect the industry much the same way that the original 950 did to the pre/pro world. A technology will be offered to many more people who before this could only read and dream about such applications.

I'm talking from experience as the (in)famous "Beta Tester #1" for the 950. I've paid my dues, and have gone through a succession of pre/pros after that - from a 950 to a Lexicon MC-8 to several HDMI capable Denon receivers (thanks Lexicon for dropping the ball on this one!) and currently using a Denon AVP-A1HDci pre/pro. While I feel that my current pre/pro (still coupled to Outlaw Amps!) gives me remarkable flexibility I'm amazed at how far Outlaw's "900" series of pre/pros has progressed in less than a decade. Considering the fact that the 997 will list for less than the original 950 (considering the value of TODAY'S dollar) that's quite an accomplishment. Room equalization in a pre/pro has become extremely mainstream in very short order.

My 2 cents.

Always good to see RAF in the saloon.
This is an interesting point - it's been about 6.5 years since the 950 started shipping (at a price of $900). The 950 had Dolby EX, DTS-ES, Pro Logic II (not IIx), a trio of separately adjustable digital crossovers, two component inputs (pure switching and no transcoding of composite/s-video), and a 5.1 analog input. Now we're talking about four HDMI inputs, video processing based on the Reon chipset, room correction that's cut down from a professional system, and a list of processing and decoding options as long as my arm. It's been a pretty hectic few years, hasn't it?

My 950 is still going strong since I first purchased it from Outlaw and I look forward to replacing it with the 997. I remember all the excitement about being one of the first to get a 950 and the same level of excitement seems to be in store for the 997.

With the little bit of talk about the GUI, did the 990 let you display the menu thru HDMI, or do you still have a "monitor output" RCA connection that you have to use to see the menu?

Sure hoping to get on that list to be a Beta tester, LOL! Anyway, can't wait to purchase mine.

Rob

The 990's DVI output is purely switching from the DVI inputs - there was no menu available. You have to use an analog video output (composite, s-video, or component) to see the menu.

Is there a reason behind not using the HDMI output (or DVI in the case of the 990) for the menu? Does it mess up the untouched "pass thru" capability of the HDMI inputs?

On the 990, the reason was part performance and part cost. By having DVI switching that was a pure pass-through, they didn't "muddy the water" and they reduced the likelihood of HDCP problems. Additionally, implementing the video processing required to generate a menu signal (even if it just replaced the incoming signal) would have been quite pricey in 2004 or 2005 (and the 990 launched in May 2005).

These days, we are seeing a lot of new offerings that can output their menus over HDMI. Part of that comes from the inclusion of high-powered video processing systems that are converting analog to digital and doing lots of digital video processing, as at that point they can generate one menu (in the analog domain so it can go onto analog inputs and be visible at analog outputs) and let the video processor convert them to digital along with the other signals. In some cases, they may even be overlaying data onto HDMI inputs, although I was turning that sort of stuff off back in 2002 when it was available via s-video switching on my 950 so I haven't paid much attention to that.

Anyone know what sort of audio dacs are used?

I like most everything about this, but the single HDMI out would have killed it for me if I had waited. No easy way to toggle between RPTV and projector.

I am glad Outlaw decided to announce ahead of time. I am hoping that this pre/pro will have outstanding two channel performance to pair up with my Squeezebox via digital out. If the DACs are good, eliminating the need for an external DAC and room correction / bass management in one package would be fabulous and considering all that the price is excellent.

I agree, I would have thought 2 HDMI outs would be standard equipment today. Lots of folks like myself running both a projector for movies/big TV events plus a LCD flat panel for everyday stuff like news etc.

I am still probably going to go with the new 997 anyhow. I am not sure if here is an easy workaround other than an HDMI switcher. However I would hate to go that route especially after shelling out for a new piece like the 997. Trying to cut down on components (hence the wait for new Oppo Blu Ray) rather than add another box. Oh well, looks like component RGB to the LCD will be the easiest solution.

Yeah... I would have liked a 2nd HDMI jack, but can live with a switcher when the time comes for a projector, since I need something to do while an electronic screen is coming down. The hard times of 2008.

Will it transcode from HDMI to component or does that mean you have to hookup component cables from all of your sources?

No, I'll just run component from my satellite direct to my LCD and then HDMI from the satellite to the 997 and onwards to the projector.

I will say the HDMI switching from processors with 2 outs is somewhat annoying. Since only one is permitted to be active by the conditions for HDCP compliance, you have to remember to actively switch it back and forth.

Sometimes annoying when I have used my projector the night before, and forget to toggle it back, and the wife goes to use the tv and I get a phone call "there's no picture, just sound, what did you do?"

Outlaw has probably upped the WAF/SAF a bit with this choice.

Anyone looking to sell their 990 down the road keep me in mind, I'll probably be looking to pick one up used for my second system.

BB

I was just about to purchase the Integra..I am so, so glad I waited!!! I am buying this as soon as it becomes available.

I'd like to know about that as well.
My 2001 Panasonic CT-36HX41 only has Component and currently using a Pioneer Eliete DV-37 DVD player.
If I got a BD player, I'd have to run HDMI to the 997 for the higher audio formats, but can the 997 take the video from the HDMI and send it out through Component? Or would I have to run Component directly from the BD to the TV.

Transcoding HDMI to component would be an impressive feature if it existed, but so far I haven't seen any products do it. If the 997 could do it, I'd sort of expect them to be shouting it from the rooftops - or, conversely, trying real hard not to tell anyone for fear of bringing down the wrath of studios whose fear of the "analog hole" made the process difficult to begin with...

We'll have to wait to see what the final product can do, but it is possible that you could assign HDMI to an input for audio and component for video. There will be an HDCP issue, of course, but you should still get audio (the lack of a handshake will just mean no HDMI video, which you can't use anyway).

With the specs that are given for the 997 can anyone give a comparison to the Integra 9.8 or the 9.9.
I demo the 9.8 and liked what I saw and heard but as I said in a previous post I want to remain loyal to Outlaw.
Time is not the question quality and improvement thats' what is important to me.

The ppl at Emotiva said that the UMC-1 could transcode from HDMI to Component outs.

Sherwood once said that the R-872 would as well, but I don't think it ended up being able to. To achieve it, the processor/receiver will have to identify itself via HDCP as an approved display device (which is a bit of a stretch) since there will be no HDCP-equipped display downstream to tell the source that it's OK to send out video. Then it can convert the video to analog (which means including a video DAC, something that most receivers lack) so it can be output via component.

I too would like to chime in, in saying that this is fantastic news. And I for one, can't wait until it is released. I've been a lurker and follower for awhile, as I think Outlaw has a terrific bang for one's buck. And I will be preordering the 997.

Rubbersoul,

I think it's too early to know how they compare.

John

You mean, officially, or in the same sense that I often feel that I'm beta testing for Microsoft? :p

Yeah, a real beta tester (Win 98/98-SE/ME/XP/Vista and service packs).

I've got XP and Vista on my system, but just recently started using Vista now that *most* of the device driver bugs are worked out with Nvidia and Creative Labs.

I just hope that Win-7 RTM isn't a work-in-progress like Vista.

I guess you are right JB.
I just thought that with the speces that are available someone could do some homework other than myself who is not tech savvy.
I am more of a listen to hands on audiophile.
Maybe since it will be a few more months for the arrival of the 997 I will do so investagating.

I wonder if Gonk will do any comparisons?

rubbersoul,

I'm sure Gonk will be one of the first to do a comparison.

Theory and practice are different realms and ultimately, it's best not to guess from specs, alone, but to wait for working samples, before passing any judgement.

Be patient, in a few more months you'll have a better idea about your options (I'd wait).

John

I would bet that the Outlaw will exceed the Integra in analog performance, as that is definitely where I have found mine to be slightly lacking.

I will say the Audyssey processing on the Integra does make a nice improvement on movie audio, and if the Trinnov processing is an improvement on that, you will all be pleased.

Another area the Outlaw could be superior is if the video processing can be tailored on a per-input basis. Does it do that?

We don't know yet...

Rubbersoul:

I can tell you one critical area in which the Outlaw 997 will FAR outperform anything from Onkyo or Integra:

Customer support.

Onkyo and Integra have appalling customer support; so, while their feature sets are intriguing, I wouldn't touch them with a fork because I watched a friend try to deal with their CS to get a receiver repaired. It was nightmarish.

From their inception, the Outlaws have had the best CS in the business. Oh yeah, they also have an established reputation for quality components, too.

Those two factors should be enough motivation to maintain your Outlaw Loyalty, even if we have to cool our boot heels for awhile until they get the 997 into the corral.

I'd agree with that even if Onkyo had fair to good customer support. I alas, cannot avail myself of Onkyo's support because I bought my 885 from someone who managed to take delivery of two new units when there were few to be had, and there is absolutely no extension of warranty or support to non-original purchasers.

Unlike Outlaw, who I have noted goes the extra mile to support even owners of second hand units where reasonably possible.

He was down in your neck of the woods, Bob, if I recall your location correctly from a conversation a long time ago on HTT.

Brandon B.....Bobliinds

I signrd up for the pre-order.

I still enjoy my 950, but this 997 looks like da bomb. As an early customer of Outlaw's, I feel ignored, since they are offering $200 discount to 970 and 990 owners. What about us early supporters?

I think the simple answer is that the 950 is two generations old and has been discontinued since early 2005. They have to draw a line somewhere, and since they rolled that offer out last fall (when they wanted to give people who were shopping then an incentive to invest in either platform in spite of news that a successor was already on the drawing board) it made sense to tie the offer to those two products. The 950 had already been discontinued for nearly two and a half years when they announced the deal.

I'll offer a loose parallel, but be warned that it is very loose. if I have a copy of AutoCAD 2005, I am going to pay a lot more to upgrade to AutoCAD 2009 than someone who is upgrading a copy of AutoCAD 2007. Actually, in that example, I'm going to pay full list price for a new license, since they quit offering upgrades for versions that are more than a few years old ("retired" in the Autodesk lingo) - if I'm lucky, I might get a discount, but it's not going to compare to the upgrade price.

Here's a somewhat less tangential question: if you extend the offer to 950 buyers, what about the 1050 buyers who were around back as far as 2000?

Except people buy AutoCAD because they have to, not 'cause they want to.

- Like I said, it was a pretty loose parallel...

hey! some of us "have to" have great sounding movies.

THE AGONY & THE 997:
(with apologies to Michelangelo di Lodovico Buonarroti Simoni & Pope Julius II)

mgdurand: Outlaws! When will you make an end?

Outlaws: When it is finished!

OK I give up, where is this announcement? Sorry if I'm missing the ridiculously obvious...

An announcement for the Model 997? There's this sticky post from shortly after CEDIA - is that what you are asking about? That's really the only announcement we've had.

That was four months ago. really doesn't seem that long ago actually. I remember reading that post over and over again and again. Can't believe it's been four months though. Here's to keepin busy.

I guess it was the title and tone of this thread that led me to believe there was some additional news; wishful thinking I suppose...

"they are offering $200 discount to 970 and 990 owners"

Is this something you need to sign up for or do you just get the discount when the time comes??

I had originally decided to pass on the 997 due to only one hdmi out. But after some research any pre/pro with two outs is just to expensive, or w/o a lot of the features on the 997. I'll try work arounds or buy an hdmi swither.

As far as I know, it's just a matter of identifying yourself as a 970 or 990 owner when you place the 997 order.

The AVS forum is now saying that the Sherwood Newcastle rep is quoting the R-972 availability for late March. This implies a Q2 delivery for the Outlaw 997.

Here are the reasons given for the delays:

It sounds like we have much to look forward to!

I guess the days of simple Hi-Fi is over.

Yeah, it really seems that way...

Well, I can't say too much against it since I just upgraded my CRT TV to a plasma. I held out as long as possible, but the dark side was just too strong.

Everything is becoming computer based, with more parts, and more chance for error. Curse ProLogic. And the stereophiles, sitting in the corner pointing at the HT junkies. While they spend thousands on several components and two speakers, we spend thousands on more speakers then they have components. Ok ok, so a little over dramatic. But AV technology definitely can influence a drug-like addiction.

Simplicity in the audio realm surely has it's perks, and the trend is really moving away from that. I do hope the 997 becomes a successful culmination of ten Outlaw years of pre/pro development and manufacturing, and ends up not being obsolete after the standard three to four year computer life span.

This thing had better be getting here soon. I have some tax money burning a hole in my pocket and the integra 9.9 is calling my name!!

It is looking like second quarter 2009 at best. Define soon.

Agreed. Tax money will be here soon, and I may look at my center channel and rears or sub for upgrade, or a new plasma TV (although less likely).

I'm curious as to what the Emotiva stuff will be like once it gets out the door as well. I think their price is $999 for the UMC-1 (what dumb names over there..) and in these times, that price is right!

If there's anyway that a small update concerning time frame could be posted, I would very much appreciate it.

I picked up a 7700 as soon as I noticed that the 997 was announced, and I'm currently using a second hand 950 until this puppy sees the light of day.

An update would be nice but i doubt that we will get one. Seems like Outlaw has already been bitten once and I would find it hard to believe they would take that chance again. The next time we hear anything about it will probably be an announcement stating that they are now taking orders.