10 dB boost in by-pass mode

I'm using the 970's multi-channel analog inputs and it seems that in the by-pass mode the 970 does not boost the LFE signal coming from my XA2. As a result, the SW channel is too low. I'm told this usually happens because the audio decoding is taking place in the player and not the pre/pro, but that there are receivers or pre/pros out there that do apply the necessary 10 decibels. Is this the case with 970?

If this is true, will the new Outlaw pre/pros be able to boost the signal?

Right now I have my 5 speakers set to "large." This removes any re-directed bass to Subwoofer and allows me to raise the volume on the sub without also raising the re-directed bass. It works ok, but I have small speakers and I know I'm losing some midrange bass.

I'm not familiar enough with the XA2 to know the underlying issue here, so my comments may not be terribly useful. Panasonic had an issue with this on their BD30 player relating to the HDMI output, and they fixed it with a firmware udpate.

Boosting the LFE channel via analog is problematic - especially since not all players require that boost, so you have to provide a manual control of some sort. The 970 doesn't offer this, and I doubt a future Outlaw processor would, either.

Here's another thought to toss out, which might be of use: the 970 offers analog bass management for the 7.1 Direct input. By setting the speakers to "large" in the XA2, you only output LFE via the XA2's sub analog output. You can trim that channel up in the XA2's setup (assuming such a control is available - as I said, I'm not terribly familiar with the XA2) and engage the 970's 80Hz analog crossover. Redirected bass will be at the correct level because it's handled by the 970's crossover network, and the LFE channel will be boosted internally to the XA2.

Does the same issue occur if you use the optical output on the player? I have the 990 and when I go to bypass the SW channel disappears. Is this not the way it works?

gonk, thank you for confirming that the 970 does not have the controls to boost the analog LFE channel. I guess I just really needed to know that information.

The LFE trim on my XA2 is already set at maximum, but I have to turn-up the SW to actually hear it. That means any re-directed bass from the 970's BM will also be raised by the sub, so I don't want to do that.

XenonMan, the 970 plays well using the optical connection, but it has some limitations. It prevents me from listening to any of the new codecs. As I mentioned to gonk, I can hear the LFE channel in by-pass mode by raising the volume on the subwoofer. It's not the best solution, but it works and DolbyTruHD is awesome. I pray I don't overload my small speakers this way, which I have set to large.

Soon, though, I will have to upgrade my pre/pro and I was hoping the new Outlaws would address this issue with the analogs. I can't see them releasing a new pre/pro without correcting this.

Definitely try the 970's analog bass management, as it may be just what you need.
What worries me most is that I'm not sure if the correction needs to be made at the pre/pro or at the player. Also, if you upgrade your pre/pro now, odds are that it will be to a unit with HDMI v1.1 or higher support, and in that case you wouldn't be using the analog outputs anyway...

I'd be curious about one thing: what happens if you set all speakers large in the XA2, disable the subwoofer in the XA2, and use the 970's analog bass management. If the XA2 is doing its job properly, test tones of the LFE channel should be able to level-match with other channels in this scenario. If they don't, I'd look to the XA2 - not the 970 or any other pre/pro - for the underlying problem.

If you disable the SW channel on the XA2, you still must find a way to boost the LFE signal by 10 dB due to the endoding on the disc. Redigitizing the audio will not accomplish this. Bass management will only redirect the bass...it will not boost the LFE signal in the process. That is why the SW channel exists.

I read that the source player (the XA2)cannot output the 10 dB, b/c that would over load the input on the pre/pro or receiver; that it must be done by the pre/pro in its last stage.

If I had large speakers all around, I wouldn't be having any trouble with my present setup. It's only when I try to redirect the base that it doesn't work. Having the subwoofer turned up to boost the LFE signal also makes the redirected bass much louder than it should be.

I guess it's just something I have to live with until I pickup a new pre/pro. Even if has HDMI, I would like this problem solved using the analog inputs.

Thank you for your help, gonk.

Panasonic made a similar claim about LFE level and potential overload with the BD10 and BD30, although in that case it was the HDMI output that was affected - and they ended up making a software revision to address that. I'd have to do some research to determine just how much truth there is to that - part of me wants to question why the component doing the decoding can't get all of the levels matched, especially since DVD players have been doing similar decoding for years (both with DVD's and other discs such as DVD-A and SACD) and we've not seen this sort of issue arise with anything like the regularity that we've seen with HD-DVD/Blu-ray.

I just purchased a Pioneer BDP-51Fd, one of their new Blu-ray players, and quess what...the Oulaw in by-pass sounds awesome! All the bass is there and the sound field is tremendous. Looks like it was XA2 that was causing the LFE problems.

Excellent news - it's good to hear that you have a player working properly for you now.