martinlogan vista with outlaw amp

Hi I just purchased the Martin Logan Vista speakers and need help finding an amp/ prepro the will match my system. Its really hard to choose.

my room is 2300 cf. I have the ml vistas as my fronts and c7 klipsch as center, and klipsch rears. i have 2 klipsch ksw10 subs.(not happy with)

Here is what i wanted to order, 990/7125/lmf1 plus combo or 990/7500/ lmf1 plus combo.

If i order the 7125, i would biamp the ml speakers.
if i were to go with the 7500, i would not biamp.
My primary concern is to get best quality sound out of the speakers for both movies and music.

the martin logan speakers can drop to 1 ohm at 20hz. So a very stable amp is also necessary.
Whats my best option?
please let me know of your sudgestions.

oh and the vistas are rated at 92db

I think either would be able to handle the ML's low impedance load comfortably, and the 92dB rating is pretty good (higher than my Paradigms). The 7125 would seem to be plenty for the Klipsch and could likely keep the Vistas happy even without bi-amping, but I've heard some mighty good things about the 7500 as well. Which is the best option? Hard to say - both are certainly good.

hi gonk:

thanks for the reply. will their be a clarity difference between the two?

my Preamp is a yamaha 2500, Should i also go with the 990? as far as sound quality is concerned?

my Preamp is a yamaha 2500, Should i also go with the 990? as far as sound quality is concerned?
Also is it worth upgrading from my Yamaha's 2500 amp to the 7125 amp?

Both the 990 and the 7125 will represent sound quality upgrades over the Yamaha - the 7125 because it (like most separate amps) is a better amp than the amp section included in the receiver, and the 990 because of the better analog section, DACs, and build in general (there may also be differences in the DSP, although they shouldn't be as pronounced - everybody has to pass certification by Dolby and DTS, so the variation seen in that process is going to be more subtle). If memory serves, Doug917's processor shootout included that very Yamaha receiver (used as a pre-amp), and the 990 won for him.

That's the easy answer. The question of which is better between 7125 and 7500 is more difficult. The 7500 has more power reserves for dealing with transient signals (brief spikes in the signal that need sudden bursts of power), so it may be more capable of keeping up with very dynamic material (either music or movies) at higher listening levels, but how noticeable that is becomes difficult to quantify (at least for me). On the one hand, Outlaw's amps have a great reputation so either option will put you in a good position (and the 7125 will put you there with an extra $500 in your pocket and less of a backache from setting up your new gear). On the other hand, some people make an argument in favor of buying extra power just to be on the safe side (sort of an insurance against buyer's remorse and against future speaker upgrades).

Billy, I had a similar situation. I have ML reQuests (larger and older--pre XStat--than the Vista) and was looking to upgrade my Yamaha 2092 (pre-2500). I had a Classe amp which provided better power than the 2092 and allowed me to bi-amp the reQuest, so my 2092 primarily served as a pre-amp and surround amp.

I originally chose the 990 and 7125. I swapped in the 990 in place of the 2092 and there was much greater clarity than the Yamaha. The 990 also gave me bass management so it was a keeper.

On the amplification side, the 7125 is well-built and was a small sonic upgrade over my Classe which was much better than the 2092's amp. Even after upgrading to the 7125, I still wasn't satisfied with the sound though so I auditioned the 7500. I went back and forth between the 7125 and 7500, wanting the two to sound the same so I could save the $$$. It wasn't close though. The 7500 was a substantial improvement for these speakers and I returned the 7125. I can say I'm finally happy with the sound of my reQuests.

btw, Outlaw pre-sales and support has been fantastic. They patiently answered my many pre-purchase questions and quickly resolved a significant UPS shipping problem.

Enjoy!

Rob

hi candyman,

thanks for your reply. You have been very helpful. I have to tell you that the ml thing is really an experience for me. in a way I regret that I bought them. Before I bought them, I really enjoyed my Yamaha and my speakers. Now I feel as if every piece of equipment that I have is not good enough compared to the logans. They really sound good with the Yamaha receiver, as it gives out 110 watts in 4 ohms. I don't think they are high current watts. When you hear them though, The sound better than any speaker that I own, and you feel that they are not working to their potential. Has any of you had this feeling.

My question to you, when you did your tests the 7125, did you try bi-amping the speakers and what were the results comparted to the 7500?

hi gonk.

I wanted to thank you, I have really taken your input into this matter into consideration. I even ordered the 7125, and am having doubts since i read candyman's say in this. and asked to hold out on shipment.

- The 7125's got a solid reputation, but if you switch to the 7500 I seriously doubt you'll ever regret it.

Billy, I agree about the Logans. They are very revealing. Ironically, I can only listen to one of my favor CDs in my car because the reQuests showed the poor quality of the recording.

When I compared the 7125 (which again I thought was better than my Classe CAV-75) to the 7500, my reQuests were bi-amped with each amp. I used the same setup (RCA cables, 990, Sony DVD, reQuests, etc) swapping out only the amp. Since I had both amps in my possession, I went back and forth several times listening to the same material back to back. Since I did the swap out, it obviously wasn't a blind test. I aknowledge that. I also aknowledge that I didn't want to hear a difference yet heard a dramatic one, favoring the 7500, especially for the panel (frequencies above 250Hz).

While both the reQuests and Vista share heritage, there are notable differences which I just took the time to investigate. One, the Vistas have a higher sensitivity (92db vs 90db). Two, the Vistas have a higher crossover (450hz vs 250hz) so the panel is handling less of the range. Three, the Vistas panel is approximately half the size as the reQuests (417 sq in. vs 845 sq in.)

Now that I've looked closer, I think the above differences all favor the ability to nicely drive the Vistas with a less powerful amp than one for the reQuests. Unless you think you'll upgrade to a larger ML speaker or need the balanced connectors, you'll probably be very pleased with the 7125. You'll also get 2 additional chanels.
And, if you're not really really really pleased, then return the 7125 under the Outlaw 30 day audition and get the 7500 (or maybe the new 7200). I know the 7500 won't disappoint.

btw, I do recommend passively bi-amping the Vistas.

Rob

Hey candyman and gonk. THanks for all of your help. I spoke to steeve at Outlaw and he told me that with the speakers that I have, I sould go with the 7500. The martinlogans are power hungry and that extra burst will just make them sound better.

he said that He would stay away from bi-amping becauseit may caose some problems.

I think that's sound advise (no pun intended).

Billy, the 7500 will be great.

I'm a bit confused though by the statement that bi-amping could cause problems. I suspect the recommendation refers to active bi-amping, which co-incides with the Vista (and reQuest) manual advising against that method.

The manual, however, does go into detail (pages 8 and 9) defining wiring methods for both horizontal and vertical passive bi-amping. I personnally run vertical bi-amping.

there is a resistr the gives in and may creat a hum.
that is, if you don't connet the speaker wire properly. my people wo don't know or did not read properly bi-amp their speakers without removeing the gold interconnects between the two connectors. thats what causes the problems.

so you bi-amp your requests with the 7500?

I also have a pair of bohelander gabaners gb 420i and I can't wait to try them with the outlaw amp. They are really really really power hungry speakers. Its like they can't get enough. I always feel that I am not giving them enough power.

Billy, I do bi-amp my reQuests with the 7500. The bi-amping is a holdover from a previous amp, the Classe CAV-75, and not from any testing I've done with the 7500.

I did some blind listening tests with the CAV-75 (in various configurations) with a friend running the tests. Into each reQuest, I tried:
- 1 channel (75w)
- 2 channels (150w) bridged
- bi-wired (2x75w)
- passive bi-amp (2x75)

I don't recall all the results--it was about 5 or 6 years ago--but do recall that my musical preference was consistently (as I found out after the tests) the bi-amp configuration.

I speculate (no proof) I would not hear a difference between single-channel and bi-amping with the 7500. The 7500 is sooooo much more capable than the CAV-75.

I'd be interested in hearing what you think of the 7500 when you get yours.

Rob

Don't worry candyman,

I will let you know. I have another post about the 990, take a look. I would love to get your input.