7125 Offer is Great but..................

Of course the match up of the 990 and the 7125 is a great center piece on any HT system but... it could maybe have been better. From page 22 of the 990 manual "The Model 990 offers blanced (XLR) and unbalanced outputs. If your amplifer has balanced inputs, we recomend you use balanced audio cables between the model 990 and your amplifier. Using balanced cables could result in a slight redution in noise." Also on page 9, "These are professional-style outputs that carry the plus and minius audio signal separetely from the ground signal."

I did not finish the above... So if the 7125 is so great and such a great match why did it not have the professional style noise reducing connectors... Why is there not one amp in the Outlaw line with this connectors?

it is going to be the 790.

someday for twice the money!

I'm glad they didn't include the XLR connections in this amp. The 7125 (and discontinued 7100) are placed in the Outlaw lineup as inexpensive models at the bottom of the amp lineup. Adding XLRs would have driven up the cost and would have little, if any benefit for the average user of these amps.

it would have been better timing to release the 990 with the 790 to complement it. much more impressive than the 770.

kosman, i am sure you have a stockpile of xlr cables just waiting to be plugged in.

no extra cables but I am sure the great guys at Outlaw would come up with a super package of the 990 and the 790 with XLR cables just thrown in!!!

Actually I am off the XLR bandwagon now, and have turned my attention to HDMI specs. Right now HDMI is a joke! Just a more expensive cable for DVI. I guess we are going to have to wait until ver. 1.2 before all audio channels are included, only then will HDMI be what it stands for.

Or, if the 790 is more juice (and cash) than you are looking for, maybe one of the fully balanced 200WPC amps that will apparently replace the 770 and 755 in a couple of months...

I agree. The amp looks great but I've committed
to using XLR as well. I've gone with the
AudioSource Modular amps. One problem it has
with XLR is that they won't auto-detect
when it gets a signal like its unbalanced
connector would. So there is some inconvenience
of having to turn a lot of things on manually
but I don't mind much.

XLR works. I originally had this nasty
hum when I was using the unbalanced inputs. Once
I switched to XLR it was gone. The hum was
associated with some grounding issue. I purchased
a Belkin PureAV power supply center to help
alleviate that also.

Having modular amps is bulky though. I have to
have two racks of AudioSource amps to house them
all & since it's heavy, they aren't a part of
the rack furniture. They're placed on an amp stand
on the floor next to the rack. Definitely
something I wouldn't have forseen when I was
researching stereo equipment.

Twitchy_one

I cannot fathom the reason why Outlaw will not also offer an amplifier discount to those who were on the original reservation list for the 990. It feels like a slap in the face to the loyal early adopters.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, Townhouse. When the Outlaws announced the 7125 on July 20, they said that, "In our last Newsletter we mentioned that due to the rather sudden discontinuation of the Model 7100, we would honor the current Model 990/Model 7100 pricing until July 20th." Going back to that previous newsletter (from July 7), we have the following statement:

Based on all of this, anyone who ordered a 7100 before July 7 or a 990/7100 combo up to July 20 is going to get a 7125 (with an extra 25W/channel and a regular price $100 higher than the 7100) for the same price as a 7100 (including package discounts when purchased with a 990). It seems that they have in fact provided a pretty respectable deal to 990 early adopters and to folks who placed orders for 7100's as the 7100 was being discontinued. Have I missed something here?

It sounds like Townhouse is saying that existing 990 owners who adopted at the preorder stage should be able to get a discount if they want a 7125 now - sort of an after-the-fact combo discount. Understandable if the increase to 125 wpc tipped him in favor of the combo.

Townhouse, if this is the case, you should call the Outlaws with this request if you're seriously interested. Worst they can do is say no.

Yes, sluggo, that's what I was trying to say. Thank you.

I was one of the very first to get a 990 and now I would like an amp that has a matching front panel. I previously contacted Scott and he said there was the usual 30-day option to upgrade to a combo. This does not help the early adopters who kept the faith and helped Outlaw with their cash flow in those critical first days of new-product delivery.

I don't understand why Outlaw discontinued their "family" pricing scheme. They thereby fail to reward their best customers.

I thought they "reward" their best customers by keeping the prices low in general? Sure, it would be nice if they offered you that combo. It would be nice if Brooks Brothers offered me a discount on a matching tie if I bought it a few months after I got a new suit. Lots of things are nice. I think being able to get hi quality equipment at bargain basement prices all year round is even nicer. As sluggo said, you can always call and ask. Maybe they'll be super nice and agree. Maybe not. There's only one way to find out.

Cheers,

I hadn't realized that the Outlaw "family" pricing discount had been discontinued. Maybe I missed something?

Sorry it didn't work out, Townhouse. Sounds like Outlaw is moving enough product that they don't need to offer the "family" discount to bolster sales anymore. Hard to offer that kind of thing if your "family" gets too big.

I suppose it is nice that they offer a combo discount in the first place - after all, you don't get that kind of action when you buy multiple components from Rotel (or Denon or Adcom or Parasound etc).

Does anyone actually check before they say something like: "Sounds like Outlaw is moving enough product that they don't need to offer the "family" discount to bolster sales anymore. Hard to offer that kind of thing if your "family" gets too big."?

Looking at the order form they still have combo pricing. I will tell you Outlaw is the best when it comes to service. I was on the preorder list for the 990; and, when I received my invite to buy, I ordered the 990/7100 combo. Then about 20 days later the news of the 7125 came out. I thought about it for a week and then called them up and asked about switching out the 7100 with the 7125; they agreed. The only deal was that I have to pay shipping on both the 7125 and 7100.

I too wanted a matching amp, but reading another post on the forum led me to believe that the only option was going to be the 790.

A number of years ago, when Outlaw launched the Model 1050 (which at the time expanded their product line from a "product point" of the Model 750 alone to two products), they offered a $50 discount off of either unit if the buyer had bought from Outlaw before - that was the family discount. I bought my Model 750 that way, paying $1049 instead of $1099. The family discount was somewhat limited, however - I don't think it offered the full $50 on ICBM's, and it didn't apply at all to the interconnects.

Some time around the launch of the Model 950, the combo pricing was introduced and at about that same time the family pricing was phased out. At the time, I suspected that this was at least partially due to the fact that it was easier for everyone involved - the buyer didn't have to know to ask for a family discount, and the order processing system would be much simpler. I benefited from the family discount when it was around, but I felt that the combo pricing scheme that replaced it was an equally good deal since the discounts actually represented a much greater savings - $100 or $200 rather than the old family discount's $50.

My point is that combo pricing tends to reward new customers (and procrastinators) while at the same time penalizing existing customers who jumped right on the pre-order bandwagon and thereby missed the 30-day window of opportunity to upgrade.

In general, a repeat customer is many times more valuable than a new customer. A repeat customer costs less to acquire and generates much more sales volume over time. Of course it's also important to attract new customers, but common sense would suggest at least giving your repeat customers the same discount deal.

Townhouse,

I sympathize with your point of view, and agree with the basic position, but I'm not so sure that "common sense" would suggest giving repeat customers the same deal as potential new customers. It seems to me that common sense would lead to just the opposite--existing customers are already committed and don't need any more incentives. It's a kind of uncommon, really pro-customer sense that would make a company value its existing customers at least as much as potential new ones.

I'd have thought that Outlaw might be that kind of company, but maybe not (since it really is uncommon). That's the way to not just keep your customers happy with the product, but amaze them with your assessment of their value to you. A good product makes the customer speak well of the company when talk turns to "home theater"; a great company makes the customer speak well of the company by initiating discussions of how great it is. Apple continues to be that kind of company--formerly with the Macintosh line, now with the iPod. I think Outlaw could be that kind of company, but they really need to cultivate their customers in new and unusual ways to get their customers to respond. Making the 7125 available at a special rate to all members of "the family" would be that kind of action, I think.

Mike:

I own a Mac and an older iPod. Will Apple give me a discount on a new iPod or MiniMac just because I bought a product previously? You know the answer: They continually innovate with new products and if you want 'em you buy 'em.

Outlaw brings out new products at a less frequent interval, but when they do they are great values -- and even more seem to HOLD that value. They also offer what to all reports is great customer service. They offer combo discounts and sometimes a special or two. When they lower a price anyone who has bought in the last 30 days is price protected. All of that seems to be the kind of thing that would make people happy.

Yes, it might be even better if they always offered anyone who had previously bought something an additional discount on future purchases in the form of some sort of affinity program, but I have to believe that they don't do that because of the administrative nightmare and/or some logical ecomomic reason.

Unless I am suffering from memory loss, which is always a possibility, the Outlaws used to offer a family discount. It wasn't an enormous amount, but it was a nice way of thanking a customer for their continued loyalty.

That's the $50 discount that I mentioned, Jed, and it was available on a few products (the 750 and 1050, and I think the initial pre-orders of 950's as well) before being replaced by the combo pricing structure.

I did check. If you read the posts more carefully, you will understand the difference between family and combo pricing.

Podboy,

I appreciate that Apple doesn't give discounts to former owners, but that clearly wasn't my point. Different companies working in different markets, with different distribution channel structures do different things to become "great" in the eyes of their customers. The overall effect of what Apple does is to get its customers to say "wow."

The question that I'm asking is what does Outlaw need to do get its customers to respond that way. I don't want to beat this to death, but I'm not questioning whether Outlaw is a good company with superior products and excellent value: they are. I'm asking whether they're a great company that makes its customers into evangelists: I don't think they are.

Reviving the family discount for the 7125 and future products is the kind of thing that might, along with the other good things you mention, have the effect of making customers even more attached to the Outlaw brand than they already are. (And by the way, a great company figures out how to do things that others reject as administratively difficult or possibly uneconomical! Examples available on request.)

I am sorry sluggo. When I read family I was thinking combo.

I think the bottom line is a company has to make money for all their work, and I am sure they giving the best deals they can while still running a business.

Townhouse, I am not sure if you are upset for you or for everyone? You made it sound like Scott said you could upgrade to a combo 990/7125 if you wanted. I assume since you already had the 990, they would have just shipped you the 7125 for the difference between the combo price and what you paid for the 990?

The one thing I think Outlaw did that was not cool was to not tell people the 7125 was coming and that it matched the 990. I for one, and I am sure others, would have bought the 990/7125 combo instead of the 990/7100 combo. They had to know the 7100 was going away for at least a couple of months before they told us. It would have saved me around a $100.00 in shipping, but I am still happy they let me switch amps. Yes, I would have had to wait another month and a half, but I really did not think the 990 was going to ship out as soon as it did either.