The Good, Bad & Ugly .. My Outlaw Audio Experience

Let me start off by saying, Thank you Outlaw Audio for swapping my Unit out for a new one. For those that are lost as to what happened
at this point, I ordered a slew of Outlaw Equipment. The readers digest of it is, it worked for 2 or 3 days and stopped outputting Audio. Had the unit swapped by The Outlaws for another and right out of the Box it had no Video. The unit was replaced again with a Brand new A-stock and it works great. It does have some interference in the 'Menu' portion but watching TV or any other Video source does not. Not sure if this is normal?

Anyways...

The Bad / Ugly
Let me start off by saying, I have thought about this post for a Week now. What I'm about to say could be considered detrimental to Outlaw Audio.
But that’s not the way I feel about this section. And, more then likely will be deleted after review by the Moderators.
So, on to the rest of my story;
Upon my second failure I ranted on this board asking if Outlaw really tested this unit before shipping etc. Scott, the moderator of this forum posted, told me to give'em a call on Monday. I said to myself GREAT! We'll get this rectified and I'll be watching TV in no time flat. I give Scott a call Monday we exchange greetings and the first thing out of his mouth wasn't "Hey were sorry you received two bad units in a row etc" Oh no, ... I felt 14 years old I was getting reprimanded for my Attitude and Language on the Forum. I am sitting here listening to this guy actually getting upset with ME, a paying
customer. Not some guy that just subscribed to the Saloon. A guy that has purchased thousands of Dollars worth of Audio Equipment from this company. I was dumbfounded, I didn't know what to say. This guy had the audacity to really lecture an upset customer about "Attitude and Language". If I recall correctly customers
pay Wages, not companies. Secondly the customer is always right. I didn’t' feel this way with Scott on the phone, maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm overreacting, but I have seriously thought about this for awhile and I'm still upset with the way I was treated. I should be able to say whatever I want about a product after all I did buy it, no? I was given the example "What if a 5 year old was on our forum reading what you typed" I thought to myself, we are all adults here
and a 5 year old isn't going to be on this Forum or Website for that matter purchasing or discussing equipment.

I'll wrap this up by saying again Thank you for swapping my Unit .. Thanks but no thanks, if this is the way I'll be treated again in the future.

I don't post often, but I could not resist. SO:

Having read your post........
Having dealt with Scott......
Having had the experience of Scott being a gentleman I wonder if perhaps you are over-reacting.

Thanks, everyones entitled to their opinion .. Glad to hear you had a good experience. I can't say the same unfortunately.

That would surprise me greatly, actually - moderation in this forum is reserved for real major problems, not honest offerings of opinion (even when the opinion offered is less than glowing praise).
Well, your initial post in last weekend's was a bit more "lively" than we're used to around here, and as the forum's moderator (among other duties) Scott may have wanted to make a point about that. I can see how it could sit a bit wrong with you, but (without having been in on the call) I wonder if the comments were directed at the guest in Outlaw's forum (a category that we all fall into here, whether we've given Outlaw money or not) rather than at the customer who has been hit by some real misfortune. If it bothers you (as it clearly does), you can always call Scott and talk to him about it.

I hear ya, theres no reason to call him again. Whats said is said. I got my unit switched and it works fine .. Its just that I run two businesses myself and would never talk to a customer that way.

BTW do you see the anomaly I see in the OSD ?

Outlawnut,

I have to respond here. If you check our forum, we allow all kinds of comments and of course criticisms of our company and products. That has always been our policy.

However, when someone gets close to crossing the line on expressions or language that we find inappropriate, we step in. It's not what you said, but the way you communicated it, that Scott was referring to.

Actually you said it yourself: "Its just that I run two businesses myself and would never talk to a customer that way." Well we expect the same from you. When you employ the language in your earlier post, you on the edge of being pulled down from this forum.

No matter how you feel about Outlaw we expect you to treat this forum with respect. We will NOT censor opinions, but on inappropriate language we will draw the line.

Peter Tribeman

Outlaw Audio is great company. I have the pleasure of meeting the the Outlaw employes and the officers at the HE show in NYC , last time.

Bravo Peter!!

hey stuff happens,talking man to man and getting things worked out is what its all about.should never be a bashing session, does'nt achieve the primary goal of satisfaction. it all works out in the end.

I'm glad to hear that the replacement has resolved the problems you were having.

My line of work doesn't compare well to Outlaw's, so the way that we interact with clients doesn't directly compare. My wife used to work in customer service at a bank, though, and there were some customers whose accounts were closed or were warned that their accounts could be closed specifically because of the way they spoke to company employees (including my wife, who was called some very unpleasant things by people - often because the people on the other end of the phone had made a mistake and didn't like having to face the repercussions). There was even one customer up in Washington state that dad and I considered taking a road trip to visit to discuss - possibly with baseball bats - the things he called me wife (on a recorded phone call and without provocation). I'm glad to be able to say that your situation doesn't equal some of those calls, but it does tie in to what Peter's talking about. The customer deserves respect, but there are limits - and the forum is a separate entity with its own rules, where everyone has to be required to follow the same rules.
I'm guessing that you're looking at the setup menu via component video, such that the 990 is replacing the source video signal with a blank screen and then overlaying the menu on that. This is how I use my 990's menu (I have s-video connected to the TV because I used to use it with the Model 950, but I don't bother using it). I don't remember any interference, but there may be a resolution change happening that your display is reacting to (the OSD is 480i, but the component signal it replaced could easily be at 480p or higher). If you're seeing the interference when using the composite output, then that's a different story. Since I don't use the composite, I can't really offer much about that case. What does the interference look like?

My line of work doesn't compare well to Outlaw's, so the way that we interact with clients doesn't directly compare. My wife used to work in customer service at a bank, though, and there were some customers whose accounts were closed or were warned that their accounts could be closed specifically because of the way they spoke to company employees (including my wife, who was called some very unpleasant things by people - often because the people on the other end of the phone had made a mistake and didn't like having to face the repercussions). There was even one customer up in Washington state that dad and I considered taking a road trip to visit to discuss - possibly with baseball bats - the things he called me wife (on a recorded phone call and without provocation). I'm glad to be able to say that your situation doesn't equal some of those calls, but it does tie in to what Peter's talking about. The customer deserves respect, but there are limits - and the forum is a separate entity with its own rules, where everyone has to be required to follow the same rules.

Eh, bad example, your comment is beyond the scope of the real issue here. I didn't call Scott or anyone at Outlaw any names nor was I out of line for being upset about a product that doesn't work. I had high expectations for Outlaw thats all.

I'm guessing that you're looking at the setup menu via component video, such that the 990 is replacing the source video signal with a blank screen and then overlaying the menu on that. This is how I use my 990's menu (I have s-video connected to the TV because I used to use it with the Model 950, but I don't bother using it). I don't remember any interference, but there may be a resolution change happening that your display is reacting to (the OSD is 480i, but the component signal it replaced could easily be at 480p or higher). If you're seeing the interference when using the composite output, then that's a different story. Since I don't use the composite, I can't really offer much about that case. What does the interference look like? [/QB][/QUOTE]

Well the original unit didnt do that for the time that it did work. I'll try a different video source and see if its the same. The interference looks like digital snow in horizontal lines. It only does this when you are making a selection on the screen.

I'm sorry I dont feel I said anything that was out of line. If everyone here is that sensitive then I appologize. Again, if you went through what I just did with Outlaw I think you may think differently.

So what's the offending language or attitude? I read the post that gonk linked above. I see frustration and some comments like "...jesus H christ..." and "...This is BS..." and "... I am just SOL this blows..."

Is that *IT*?!?!?! So, some rather tame acronyms and some frustration with failiing products is what's got everyone so upset? I think Outlawnut was rightfully frustrated, and I think he's correct to question "Do these guys really test this stuff before it leaves the door?!"

Or am I missing something that was actually offensive or inappropriate?

I, too, have dealt with irate customers when we owned a restuarant. Even if we consider Outlawnut to be the "irate customer", it seems like the problem will be easy to fix with customer service. In the forum, it seemed like it was going that way, but it sounds like the phone call went differently.

I'm just trying to understand what Outlawnut is dealing with here, and see his side of it. My dealings with Outlaw have been very positive (although when I have had issues, they have made me prove it over and over again before handling the issue).

Outlawnut -- I, too, had the flickering OSD problem. It would sometimes flicker, sometimes work and somtimes display nothing. It got progressively worse, to the point where it would never display anything at all. I eventually got a replacement, and had no further problems with the OSD.

Yea thats about all I said, everything that went on in the phone call is here on the forum in the exact order it happened. You know if Scott had just called me back said hey were sorry etc etc here's a new unit and just never mentioned anything about my post I would probably be on here right now giving Outlaw nothing but praise. I am still lost as to what is so bad about my post? I am just a bit annoyed people other then yourself can't see this from my point of view thats all. Oh well, whatever ..

As for the OSD problem I have my fingers crossed it won't get any worse. That would chalk up 3 bad units in a row if so! I'll do some further testing with the other video outputs

I have had and still have issues with my 990 also. I want to like Outlaw, but quality seems to be an issue.

I would pay more if Outlaw manufactured its products here is the States, so quality could be controled.

Being upset is justified. I never questioned that, doubly so because we all hold Outlaw to high expectations. You did refrain from calling anyone names, but as I said before your tone did get a bit closer to the edge than the saloon typically experiences.
Let us know what you find...

Yup, I didnt know it was made in china until this stuff arrived. I wonder how that would affect cost if it was made here ?? .. But after these hassles it just boils down to, I just want it to work .. LOL At this point would I have paid 1800$ for a proc that worked and had all the features of this 990. What problems does your 990 have ?

You left my quoted text out of how your example was out of scope :p Eh, my tone was fine man trust me if you had all these hassles you would be a bit peeved too my friend! I don't want to get off on you wrong Gonk. You seem like a cool resourceful guy. I just want you to think of this from all aspects and that why would I go through all this to post my story if none were true ? I had a few people and friends I told this story to and all their reactions were about the same .. " "

Anyways thanks for the tips, I tried out your frequency cd and it sounds awesome on my Servo 15 .. Watching the woofer extended out and having my living room shaking was fun. The girlfriend didn't find it so exciting that the China in the cabinet was rattling however

Gotta say, it was never my impression that kids were on this forum (except for us grownup-type kids) and I didn't find Outlawnut's language especially offensive. If I had been "lectured" about my "tone" by a businessperson with whom I was in the middle of rectifying a botched, expensive purchase I might have been a bit, uh, peeved myself.

ditto....to NRBQLou's comments...

All of my experiences with Outlaw (and ATI for that matter) have been positive, customer service was good. However, if I had spent my money and recieved a broken product and did not get satisfaction, I too probably would have posted something and used "colorful" langauge - whether right or wrong. ID companies have to take the bad with the good. The danger ID companies face is the power of the internet. We all have searched on the internet for our "toys", that is half the fun. We look for bad and good opinions. When I read this forum I see others who are also part of AV123's, Axioms and AVR's forum Why? Probably because we go there to seek opinions from users of the equipment rather than the general overview of a magazine. There are many loyal customers to ID companies not just because of product and value but also because of the customer service. It is inevitable that a lemon will go out to a customer, but with the power of the internet, it has to be corrected almost immediately. Was this one? Or did Outlawnut sense he was getting ripped off? The response from the Boss seems a little threatening rather than empathic but that's only my opinion. Over the last few weeks this is the second customer complaint (not necessarily at Outlaw as I was referring to the HSU problem as well). Why was n't the problem taken care of before it hit the internet? Probably because two parties could not work the issue out over the phone. Customers have to be patient when dealing with ID companies and ID companies have to work quickly to resolve problems. Otherwise, we'll have to go back to shopping in the stores! (Just kidding).

If Outlaw built the 990 here,I'm sure I could have never afforded one. I'm amazed that they are able to build speakers in the Stated and stat so competitive.

I find his Jesus comment offensive, but the rest I don't because they're acronyms.

Personally I refrain from blasting a company when receiving a defective product on a public forum until I have exhausted all avenues of service and support. As an example, I ordered a Black Mac Book as a secondary computer, it was A stock. The unit worked fine but had a loud fan. I asked on MacRumors forum if this was normal in a rather normal tone. The answer was a resounding no.

I didn't buy directly from Apple and therefore I had a bit tougher time getting it fixed. If I had bought if from Apple, I could have taken it in and they would have given me a brand new unit. Anyway, they had to take my unit and send it in to get fixed. It was a bit of hassle and I had a couple weeks without a laptop, but nothing to cause me to rant on the web. I have a perfectly working computer in the end and I'm happy without any ill will or words towards the company.

The point is, Apple is know for their quality and so is Outlaw, but defects happen. It could be a factory defect or it could be dropped by a carrier on the way to your house. You just don't know where the issues occurred, but what matters is that it gets resolved in a reasonable amount of time.

So my advice to anyone is to try to resolve your issues with the company first and if you don't get anywhere, then let you opinions be known to the public. No matter how stellar a companies record is, there's always going to be problems, some more severe than others. What matters in the end is wether they take care of the customer or not.

Nice points Retep. But on another topic. Anymore "artist renderings" of the 990 successor? I enlarged yours and printed and then posted in our office. Everyone things this is a new and available product. Sorry to go off topic.

Ah... That's really cool. I haven't had much time to work on it, but perhaps I'll push one out this week. Which on did you print out?

I printed out the one with the silver trim on the display, with 4 buttons underneath and 3 additional ones. It took me awhile to figure out how to blow it up to full size, but now it is on "display". Now only if Outlaw would post some photos of the next gen 990, or maybe they 're waiting for something from you.

My $5000.00 Bryston SP2 had to go back to the factory. My $6000.00 Simaudio Supernova was exchanged by the factory. My $90,000.00 Boston Whaler had to go back to the factory. None of these are made in China by the way. So wipe your nose and stop your snivelling.
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Yikes! Sounds like it's a good thing you found Outlaw Audio, wipper snapper....but one would think that saving money might lighten one's disposition.

"So wipe your nose and stop your snivelling." So how is this helpful or an opinion? But, only if we all could be alright with spending thousands only to have to return the items. Perhaps one day I'll get there and be OK with that.

Outlawnut, has the issue been resolved completely? Does your new unit work OK? Also, and this may sound strange, but did you have to incur any costs for this issue such as shipping.

The real question here is, are we going to play stonehenge tomorrow night?

That statement doesn't help. Nobody returns a boat to the factory for replacement.. Anyways whatev.

yea it works fine other then the OSD is a bit fuzzy and has lines .. Some say thats not normal. Scott I'm sure is reading this and hasn't chimed in yet. I haven't had to pay for any shipping and I even got advanced replacement. Meaning they sent me a unit first and I have prepaid tag in the box so I can ship back the old unit.

I actually did not originally post the last quote. I was quoting someone else and was being a little sarcastic. Probably should not have sarcastic, but to me it is not ok that someone spends thier money only to be disappointed.

Glad to hear that you are not out shipping costs.