990 vs. Pioneer Elite VSX-84TXSi

Well Outlaw members, haven't posted in a while but as you can tell by my title, I'm up to no good This week I purchased pratically a brand new Pioneer Elite VSX-84TXSi receiver for next to nothing price wise to possibly serve as a pre/amp in place of the 990 till Outlaw releases the updated model 990. I was hoping to get the unit before the weekend to do a side-by-side compairison but doesn't look like it will arrive till Monday.

I've been very pleased with my 990/7700 combo since day one but with the lack of HDMI switching, I just have way to many switches in my setup which gets annoying even with macros programmed into my URC. As I stated before, if I decide to keep the Elite this is without a doubt only a temporary solution until Outlaw releases the new 990. I already made up my mind that Outlaw has a customer for life when I first received my 990/7700 combo but at the price I paid for the Elite, I figured I'd give it a test run. I HAVE NOT sold my 990 yet for the simple fact that I've grown to love the unit so much I'm almost scared to sell it until I can compair the two units.

Long story short, I will be doing a review of the two units as soon as I can get them in place so stay tuned. For all I know, may be re-selling the Elite and keeping the 990, only "listening" time will tell.

What, no comments, lol.

I had an Elite receiver (VSX-43TX) before getting my 990 and five M2200s. I tried out the Elite as a pre/pro with the monoblocks and then I put the 990 with the amps. There was a big improvement with the Elite combined with separate amps over the internal Elite amp section but the M2200s with the 990 was so much better than the Elite alone or the Elite with the monoblocks I knew the Elite was headed to eBay. Now, the 43TX is not the 84TX but I'm betting your 990/7700 will smoke the 84TX or the 84TX with the 7700. I'd look for another way to switch HDMI sources versus replacing the 990 with an Elite receiver. Just my two cents.

Oh, I returned the M2200s and just before the Outlaw 7500 came out I got a great deal on the ATI 2005 which is essentially the same as the 7500.

I'll be curious to hear what your findings are, grimster.

Did you get it for the extra HDMI inputs, or for the HDMI v1.x audio support? I ask in part because I have been experimenting with ways to augment the 990's DVI/HDMI switching lately (see my HM-31 notes )...

Gonk, basically purchased the unit for the v1.2 audio support as well as the switching abilities. I have way to many switches in my setup and just looking to simplify things a little. With audio quality being my main goal, if the Elite doesn't step up to the plate like the 990, it will be re-sold within a week. I should be receiving the Elite today, Monday, Oct. 22nd. and the unit will have a week to stand up to its name.

Well guys, received my VSX-84TXSi Elite receiver Monday and after close inspection, the unit is flawless minus some of the flaps missing on the fiber optic connectors which apparently is an overall problem for Pioneer. As far as the flaps go, the seller contacted Pioneer and the seller is sending me the replacement parts and I should be receiving them this week.

Anyways, you would not believe the cabling I've eliminated just swapping units out. Here is the problem I've run into since hooking the unit up which I'm still not finished doing yet. Once I hooked up all cables I have a really, really bad buzzing sound coming out of the speakers. I think I've narrowed it down but I need some help just to make sure. When powering up the receiver and amp, IF the HDMI cable is disconnected, I do not get the buzzing sound, as soon as I reconnect the HDMI cable, it comes back. I've tried 3 different HDMI cables with the same results. Now here is where it gets interesting, instead of running my HDMI cable from the receiver to my wall plate, which then runs to the projector, I tried running direct from the receiver to the projector and get the same thing. This is what I tried next and I'm not sure what made me think of it but I grabbed one of those heavy duty extension cords and plugged my projector into a totally different outlet instead of the one installed at the projector and with all the HDMI cables connected like they should be (from the receiver, to the wall plate then to the projector) the buzzing was gone.

I know very little about electricity other than the fact that it tingles when it bites but now I’m a little confused. When I was running the 990/7700 combo, I believe I had a similar problem with analog connections from the 990 to the amp but when I changed over to the balanced connections, the problem went away. I tried numerous analog connections from the Elite to the 7700 and still had the buzzing sound so I know it’s not bad cables. The other thing I noticed yesterday was if my satellite box was connected to the Elite via HDMI, the buzzing was worse. What I don’t understand is, when I ran my HDMI cables to the Monoprice switcher, then to the wall plate, I had no buzzing sounds either.

I’m at a loss here as to what could be causing the problem. Is it that the receptacle to the projector could be causing my problem? I believe the electrician that ran the line for the receptacle in my ceiling used the same line that’s attached to my recessed lighting. Is it that my satellite box is causing the electrical buzzing sound, I just don’t know. I want to say it’s probably going to be a combination of both but I’m just not sure how to eliminate it. The other thing I did was run my speaker wires directly to the Elite to see if I still get the buzzing without even connecting the amp and I do still get the buzzing sound just not as loud. So, with everything said, what other help can anyone offer? What other configurations can I try to try and narrow it down to what is causing the buzzing sound. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Your description of changing where the projector was plugged in suggests that the projector is on a different circuit than the rest of the equipment, which matches the electrician borrowing from a lighting circuit. Is that recessed lighting on a dimmer? Does the buzzing happen when the lights are turned off entirely? It's possible that the noise typically dumped onto a circuit by a dimmer could be traveling from projector to the Elite and producing the hum - and having a separate switcher in front of the wall plate might have provided a buffer (although I'm not sure exactly how).

Hey Gonk, the buzz is there whether the lights are ON or OFF. The recessed lighting front and rear are both on Lutron dimmers. Should I try and run the extension cord from the projector to the same spot the receiver is plugged into? If I still get the buzzing sound, what does this prove? When I get home from work this afternoon I'm going to take the Elite upstairs to see if I can reproduce the same problems on the upstairs rig, try and rule out the receivers HDMI inputs being the problem.

You've already proven that the projector is at fault here. Apparently, it's a ground loop caused by the projector's electrical circuit not being at the same ground potential as the rest of your equipment.

When I go home at lunch time I'll run the power of the projector to the same outlet as the Elite receiver to see if this eliminates the buzzing sound. I'll report back my findings after lunch. Thanks guys.

Okay, so when I got home for lunch I reconnected the Elite with the 7700 (just the fronts), ran the extension cord over to the Monster Power HTS 5100 and powered everything up, dead quite. Okay, lets plug in the HDMI cable, low and behold, a very faint HISS now, not a BUZZ like before. The hiss is only there when the Elite is set in "tuner" mode, when I switch over to DVD, dead quite. Thanks a million Lee Bailey and the rest of the guys that helped out.

Now, here is my next question, other than running an extension cord across the ceiling and down the wall to get to the HTS 5100, not sure how to get power to the receptacle easily. I will have to completely unload the built-in media cabinet to remove the built-in shelves to get behind the cabinet where all the cables are run. Once that is done, do I (a) tap into the dedicated 120 amp circuit to run power to the projector, which is the same outlet the HTS 5100 is plugged into or should I (b) run basically a long heavy duty extension cord basically the same way (threw the wall) but come threw the wall so I can plug directly into the HTS 5100. Like I said, I know very little about electricity so I'm not sure if option (a)basically does the same thing as option (b).

Now that I think about it, with the projector being like this the whole time, do you guys think it's had a negative effect on picture quality?

The HTS 5100 might be the saving grace for preventing ground loops. By plugging directly into another outlet you might have the same problem again but there is only one way to find out.

I was talking about running another 12/2 line from the dedicated 120 amp (daisy chaining) to the receptacle mounted in the ceiling at the projector, not plugging into the same receptacle. Correct me if I'm wrong, like I said before, I know nothing about electrical work but if I run another line off of the dedicated 120A line to get power at the receptacle at the projector, wouldn't the projector and the HTS 5100 share the same ground then? I just think this would be a much cleaner install compaired to running an extension cord threw the ceiling then out the wall and plugged into the HTS 5100.

If you put the projector's receptacle on the same circuit as the rest of your equipment, that would give you a shared ground. It would also get you off of a circuit that has dimmers on it - granted, Lutron makes some decent stuff (I've got one of theirs in my den), but any dimmer, especially a residential grade one, is not an appealing thing to have on a circuit with electronics.

You have the right idea about using the same circuit for the ceiling receptacle.

What kind of house do you have? If it's a ranch it would be easier to do.

Depending on how the wire is run it would be easier to shut the power off cut the wire in the basement, add a splice box, run a 12-2 from the new box up beside the stink pipe to the attic and then to the ceiling outlet. You'd have to remove the wire from the lighting circuit.

Feel free to ask any questions. Jim

Well, looks like the trusty 990 is back in it's place until I can get an electrician to come out to the house. I did exactly like I said I was going to do, went home and instead of hooking up one peice of gear at a time I ended up hooking all the gear up and then ran the extension cord from the projector to the HTS5100 which is where the rest of the gear is hooked up and low and behold, the buzz/hum is back. The noise doesn't seem to be as loud as before but it's there and it drives me crazy, it seemed to be more noticable when the Elite was set to "tuner" mode, but it's there. My father has a neighbor that he's been friends with for 20+ years which is a master electrician so I'm hoping to get in touch with him to see if I can't get him to come by the house and take a look at what I have going on. On another note, I did however deal with the buzz/hum long enough to fire up Casino Royale on Blu-Ray and run threw some chapters for about 15 minutes or more to see if the Elite would even be something I may be interested inn and I must say, I definately need to get the buzz/hum fixed so I can do some more critical listening, from what I heard, the Elite/7700 combo sounded pretty impressive.

I had a Pioneer Elite receiver in my setup (using as a pre-pro) prior to the Outlaw 990 purchase. It wasn't the 84 (it was a 27), but replacing it with the Outlaw significantly improved the sound in my system. The noise floor is lower with the Outlaw.

I imagine when I finally get around to upgrading my speakers, the improvement will be even more noticable between the two in direct comparison. My existing NHTs aren't nearly as revealing as their replacements will be (Thiel CS2.4s, if all goes well... which means, most likely, an amplifier upgrade soon thereafter ).

Well, got in touch with my father's neighbor which is the electrician and he said he's going to try and get by the house Sunday morning to have a look at things. He said he could very well be able to correct the issue by checking the wiring on the receptacle itself, not quit sure what he meant by it but if thats the case, hopefully it will be an easy fix. I'll keep ya posted on the outcome.

Well, looks like I'm going to be keeping my beloved 990. The electrician came by today to take a look at things and gave me a temporary solution so I could atleast give the Elite a chance. After getting things hooked up and dialed in, I must say, maybe the 990's sound has grown on me but I much prefer the sound of the 990. Don't get me wrong, the Elite did sound very good but the 990 just seemed to have more effect to the surrounds as well as more punch to the fronts. I gave it a shot but it looks like the 990 won overall. If anyone's interested in the Elite let me know.

Well, the Elite has been "sold". Now it's time for me to just sit back, relax, and enjoy my 990 some more until the new Outlaw pre/pros come out, it's probaly what I should have done in the first place, lesson learned.

It was an interesting experiment, at least...