990 Firmware Upgrade

Just wondering if there's any news on when one will be available...

Haven't heard anything, but I've assumed the first official word will be when they post the update on the site and invite us to download it.

I was just wondering if there was any news...no big deal.

Great minds think alike:-) I was just stopping buy the forum this morning to ask this same question.

I have to say that while I understand that software takes time to perfect, etc., I am starting to think they dropped the ball on this one. It has been almost four months since Scott left the post about this.

Scott, if you are listening, could you give us an update please?

We are in final beta testing of the Model 990 software update and expect to release it to you within the next 10 business days. At that time, we will also release the details of the update including a bass management matrix.

For prospective buyers:

Units currently in inventory will not receive the software update before they are shipped. These will need to be user installed via the USB or RS-232 port.

Best,

Scott

In the next two weeks, eh? Cool deal - thanks for the status report, Scott.

Great news Scott! I look forward to hearing more info.

Cool! I can't wait to see what will be fixed/changed.

Scott

I was going to be buying the 990/7125/LFM-1 combo next week, but might hold off to get a 990 with the newer S/W on it (than me having to flash it).
Once the S/W is released, will new 990's ordered come with it?

Sweet! I'm glad I asked. Of course now I'll be anxious about it...

Hurray! Yes! That is some great news!

wonderful... can't wait!

I think that is very nice but have no qualms about how long it has taken.

Too many times companies are pressured to issues upgrades and do so without thourough testing resulting in more bugs than when a person started. I have had that experience with one company in particular.

Even though I have alot of faith in Outlaw I will not be one of the first to upgrade my 990. I'll let a few of you guys test it out first.

mzpro5: I'm sure or should I say they hopefully will supply the original firmware on the site for those who upgrade and experience problems and want to revert back to the old code.

Jeff

Okay, anybody care to share a bit about what's going to be in the update? Perhaps a beta tester might divulge a bit? Maybe just a hint please?

It's more of a hurry up and wait thing. I really can't imagine why it is taking so long unless there is some hardware-related show stopper. In spite of what's been posted here, I can't imagine the firmware being terribly complex for a simple text based menuing system to talk to the various support chips. I suspect there just isn't a dedicated person working on this. I doubt that badgering them about it is going to make any difference since that approach has been tried (grin) to no effect. 8-)

Cheers,

Beta testers presumably aren't able to say anything due to NDA - if they could, I'm sure they would have.

Scott has gone so far as to say that we'll have an update by the end of next week. They've been very conservative in giving firm information like that since the days of the Model 950 development, so I suspect they're very close to the end.

I can understand the reasoning for beta testers not wanting to post and Outlaw not wanting to ID them. As I understand the 950 beta testers took a real beating. However if real beta testing was performed, all of the conditions(flaws) that have been ID'd by purchasers of 990 were known prior to the first unit shippment. If they were not found on the orignal beta test, I hope new testers were used this go-around.

I have not used the USB port on my 990, but will probably use it for the upgrade. What type USB cable will I need from my laptop to 990?

When I connected my wife's laptop to the 990 for trying out the audio connection, I used a standard A/B USB cable similar to this one . It worked for the audio connection, and I plan to use it for the data connection as well.

Thanks Gonk, I have a bunch of those cables laying around. I think I will get into my rack system and connect the USB cable, in order to use it soon!

- Good plan. Mine's been sitting there since last year, just in case the need arises.

According to the Outlaw FAQ, the 990 is a semi-clone of the Sherwood P-965. Is the patch delayed because Outlaw is working on something like SNAP? After this much TIME, it seems like a distinct possibility... On the one hand it would be a great selling point. On the other hand, it seems odd that they made current customers wait so long for simple bug fixes while they added in that huge update, instead of separating them. By the way, an internet search shows that the first version of SNAP went off like a lead balloon for some people. For propaganda and specifics, the P-965 had this SNAP firmware update recently (info below is from the Sherwood website):
"Sherwood America has added a new breakthrough feature to its Newcastle line. The feature, Sherwood Newcastle Automatic Parametric EQ or “SNAP” for short, adds 7 bands of parametric EQ to each of the channels, including the subwoofer channel, for its Newcastle R-965 and R-865 receivers and its P-965 tuner/preamp/processor.
An extension of the Automatic Speaker Setup routine that was added to these models late in 2004 as part of Newcastle’s Field Upgrade program, SNAP first measures the frequency response of each of the 7.1 channels using sophisticated 1/12 octave amplitude mapping. According to Jeffrey Hipps, Sherwood's Sr. VP for Marketing and Product Planning, "1/12 octave measurements allow us to concentrate the highest accuracy on the frequency bands that can most benefit from equalization.” For example, there are 24 measurement points in the bass area between 20 and 80 Hz. SNAP then uses up to 7 bands of parametric EQ per channel with both adjustable center frequency and “Q” to improve in-room system response.
“The results”, according to Hipps, “are outstanding. My personal system, with its mix of di-pole and direct radiating speakers has never sounded better. Dialogue intelligibility is improved and surround effects, no matter where they are panned, sound realistic.”
Upgraded ’65 series SNAP models will be available in mid-August. Sherwood believes the benefits of SNAP are so great that it is enacting a program whereby owners of these three Newcastle models, the R-865, R-965 and P-965, can add SNAP to their own units for a nominal charge of only $100.00."

Perhaps, but Outlaw's said several times that they weren't satisfied with the performance of the SNAP implementation being used by Sherwood (that's why they started selling Velodyne's SMS-1) - if they do implement some form of EQ, it'll probably be modified a good bit.

I asked this a few days ago, but didn't get a reply.
Once the new S/W is released, will new 990s ordered come with it installed, or will it have to be done at home?

FAUguy,

Scott already answered your question, before you asked it. If you go up to Scott's information it quite clearly states that in stock units will not have this firmware upgrade installed.

Of course, I surmise that eventually the firmware upgrade will be de facto on new units, the question is just when that would start to occur.

Ah ok. With Final Exams going on, I'm losing my mind.

OK, only two working days left of that 10 working days in which we will see the update. I was really hoping it was going on the early end of 10 days, but I have this feeling it is going to be more than 10 days.

Not bashing the Outlaws, I just want that update with the bass fix. I am also hoping it has some other fixes like being able to configure the setup with only one rear speaker like I believe the 950 would do.

The 19th will be 10 business days, but I don't think people will be upset if it's a bit longer.

We've waited this long, what's another week or so?!?!

I dont't even have my 990 yet!

I hope it allows me to xover my center to the mains at 160 hz, (maggie cc2 and 20r mains) as they are large for sure. And, I want to be able to send 80 and 100 hz from rears and surronds to the sub. That is how this is supposed to work, right? The multiple xover was one of the main reasons for buying this, thing is, I hope it is at least as good as the cheaper 970 (in that it has line by line xover)...
Of course I could slide along with my 2 ICBMs (one is magnapan version), but I am really hoping to put them up for sale soon...

I don't know if they'll add 160Hz, but they've got 150Hz and 200Hz available. If you set the center to small and have a subwoofer in the system, I believe that the low-passed data will go to the subwoofer rather than the mains (even if the mains are set to large) - same for the side and rear surrounds.

Do you have two subwoofers located close to the main speakers? If not, you definetely don't want to go as high as 160Hz. Human ear starts detecting low frequency directionality above 80Hz, so at 160Hz you'll hear your subwoofer play nice and clean, but right there in the corner...

The CC2 center does not play below 160hz, and sounds really bad xovered right to a sub at so high a freq. However it does sound great xovered to the mains.
The mains go down to about 27hz on thier own, but they are tri amped w/ a external xover, w/ a pair of HSU TN1220s at 45hz. Right now, I use the ICBM magnapan version (doubles the xover freq for the center) set at 160, though 200 would work as well, in recombine mode. I run the bass signal from my mains xover into the ICBM, as well as center signal. The info above 160 goes to the center, and below gets mixed with the stereo bass info, and appears at the mains bass panel. No center info actually goes to the subs. I have a third sub just for rears and/or LFE.
What I would like is to have the 990 send the center bass to the large mains (I had a sony 90es that would do this), so the ICBM can be removed, and the tube subs will work along with the bass panels of the 20s.
Even better, but not absolutly needed, would be to have the surround/rears xovered to there own sub (at 80 and 100hz), and not go to the mains. Though they certainly would be xovered there as well. Of course now I have a extra unused sub. Hence the need for the 2nd ICBM that I want to remove from the mix.
BTW, I think today is the 19th! (pacing back and forth)

A quick update on the Model 990 software upgrade:

Work has been completed on the upgrade itself, and the performance is great. The software itself is fully tested and will bring you the following:

* A revised bass management system
* The ability to view lip sync delay time on the front panel display so that you may set the delay while using the DVI inputs or while viewing a 720p or 1080i component video input
* Ability to rename the audio, as well as video inputs in the OSD
* Other minor internal software adjustments

Unfortunately, while the software is done, a minor glitch has popped up in the process to download it. We're on the case and will have it available for you before the end of the weekend.

Sorry for the delay, but please bear with is just another few days. It's very much worth the wait!

Regards

The Outlaws

Scott,
Thanks for the update.

Thanks for the status report, Scott!

Good news on the update. One of the features several folks requested was the ability to set speaker trims unique to each input versus the current global settings. Scott did not mention this specific change. Do folks think it is a "minor software adjustment"?

I guess we will see how revised the BM is in a few days.
Hope we can get to the 7.1 direct from the frount panel, and not have the machine revert to PL2 everytime it is fed a PCM signal to DD then back to PCM (in this case it ALWAYS goes to PL2)

Of course, the 990 sounds great, and really performs on the balanced outputs. Otherwise it would have gone back before the 30 days. But I really hope at least these issues are fixed. It just makes me feel a little like the 990 software feature set was not though out as well as the 970. And some things about my 950 I liked a lot (like being able to see the signal type and sample rate) that the 990 doesn't do.
I say this because it sounds like they didn't give us these things that I/we had hoped/asked for. At least it wasn't listed. Anyhow, some revisions are sure better than none
Thanks for the update, I do appriciate the efforts of all involved.

is the sample rate not viewable currently? If it is.. i can't find it anywhere. Not that that's a huge deal.. but when the web page lists this as a feature.. and I can't find it.. was it ommited in place for another feature instead?

AvFan, I'm not sure what you mean by "speaker trim unique to each input"? does that mean that I can set my fronts to large for 5.1 and then small fronts for 2 channel listening?

Skyblazer,

You've described a cool feature, but I was referring to the speaker calibration setup. Sorry for the confusion. I have noticed that I when I listen to 2 channel music I like different settings for the right speaker than determined by the test tones for my 5.1 setup. The difference is consistently 2 or 3db. I kept reaching for an imaginary balance control when listening to music.

I'm listening to much more music than watching movies so I left the speaker calibration set for 2 channel music and it has not been distracting when watching movies. The ability to set different speaker calibrations for different inputs would solve the difference I've observed and I'd get all speakers working appropriately for each input type.

I'm not clear on the point of why the speaker calibration would be any different from the two channel setup (R/L) to 5.1 or any other mode! Maybe the level would be different, but if you set the channel calibration with a SPL meter and they are all at the same reference level, what does it matter?
If the sound field seems out of balance, wouldn't you raise the calibration level of either the right or left speaker to compensate for this? I have a left front speaker that has to be raised 2db more than the right one to match it in ouput, I don't know why, but all my speakers match in level, which would seem to be the most important thing.

Yea! Looks like it's up.
Since my 990 isn't here yet, who's going to try the upgrade first?
http://www.outlawaudio.com/support/990.html

Here's the new bass info:
Analog: http://www.outlawaudio.com/support/990_analog_bm.html
Digital: http://www.outlawaudio.com/support/990_digital_bm.html

i have noticed my right front speaker is always lower volume than my left.. i just attribute it to the right amp channel having a problem. I've had it serviced and set back to factory specs.. but one never knows. It's a Adcom GFA 5400

Before I sold all my stuff I had a 950 with an Adcom GFA-545II and 7400.
I never had a problem with any speaker being louder than another.
The 950 you could raise or lower the db for each channel. Doesn't the 990 do this?

FAU, yes the 990 you can do the same thing... i have mine raised on the right either +1 or +2 usually to balance out the fronts.

ok so now in bypass with analog inputs the crossover is not active on the main speakers.
if you use analog inputs and use the stereo setting will the outlaw DAC's manipulate the signal? if so the only way to use the DAC's in the CD player and have the speakers crossed over is to use a digital input and bypass setting?

I don't know Relentless. I'll wait till someone can explain it to me like i'm a 10 yr old. ha ha ha.

i don't quite understand that whole bass management thing.. and how this will "fix" the bass issue.

so i'm all ears guys.

In bypass with analog inputs, there is no crossover applied because the signal never enters the digital domain. If the mains are set to small, the 990 will make a summed copy of the left and right channels which will then be sent to the sub.

In stereo mode with analog inputs, the 990 converts the signal to digital, applied bass management, and converts the signal back to analog.

If you use a digital input to the 990, you are by definition not using the player's DAC. Bypass mode with a digital input still uses the digital input, leaving the player's DAC out of the equation. I'm not an expert on what digital input/bypass mode really skips and what it still passes through, but I know at least that much about it.

I was under the impression that with the original firmware in bypass with analog inputs and the speakers set to small the fronts would be crossed at the settings and you would have to use the subs crossover or an SMS or some other external crossover for the full range signal that is sent to the subs.with the new firmware that seems to have changed or I was wrong and it is the same as it was before.

I'm basing my statements on the old firmware (haven't got the new firmware installed yet to see what it does), and as I understand it the analog bypass mode was already bug-free. It's a somewhat unusual approach to the issue of getting a signal to the sub when small speakers and an analog bypass mode are put together, but there's an argument that can be made for it.

Darn....I really wish they would've just dropped the sub output on 2-channel analog bypass. I love the L/R getting the full range, but it is a pain to turn off the sub each time. I enjoy 2 channel analog listening with full range towers only (no sub).
I would like...
Analog/Fronts=SM/Sub=Yes
bypass = full range fronts with sub off

Looks like I'll have to stick with setting my mains to large rather than something like - small at 40hz. I understand you can't please everyone

just listen to your fronts on large.. in bypass. no sub that way. or did this change with the update?

I was kind of hoping the full range to the sub during bypass would go away too. I could live with it if there was a way to easily change the fronts from small to large. A remote discreet code or from the front panel would be nice. I have an HDMI projector so getting to the setup menu or OSD is a pain, especially when I just want to listen to a CD.

i thought the stereo button, right above the sleep button.. lets you scroll thru stereo, bypass, then upsample, 5.1 etc..? Without having to enter the on screen menu. that's how it works for me.

AFAIK there is no way to change the speaker size from the front panel. With the 950, if I remember correctly you could. Stereo Bypass and 7.1 analog is the only time I would want them Large the rest of the time I'd like them crossed over at 40hz.

My fronts can handle most music sources down low but unfortunately many DVD soundtracks have low bass mixed into the mains. I use stereo bypass for CDs because I have an external DAC. I run 7.1 analog for DVD-A and SACDs and prefer to have no A/D - D/A which is only possible by setting everything Large AFAIK. The only time I'd run the mains small is DVD for reasons mentioned above.

That nailed it on the head. An easy way when you pop in a CD to set that baby to remove as much processing as possible and just have good 'ole 2-channel full range (i.e. - bypass). To me, bypass should do nothing to the signal whatsoever, including not introducing a sub signal.
Or, the discrete code would've worked for me too. Or if the 7.1 direct didn't apply a crossover (or a setting to make it so) with the assumption that the 7.1 player had its own bass management, that could've worked too (could've just hooked CDP to 7.1 inputs).
They moved one step closer from the original firmware in the sense that bypass now sends a full range signal to the mains (even if set to small), but still left the sub on. This was really the only firmware update I cared about. Guess I'll just stick to leaving my mains on large, same as before the update.
Oh well, different strokes for different folks.

Does anyone know if the online 990 manual has been updated for the firmware upgrade?

I got the update installed and I have to admit I'm kind of disappointed. The lip synch display is nice other then that I don't "see or hear" much difference.

Stereo Bypass is still unusable unless you turn your sub off IMHO. I switched my mains from large to small just to check and almost blew my sub up. How can this method possibly work for anyone?
This was after I calibrated my sub down too.

Can't rename the 7.1 analog inputs and as far as I can tell the BM hasn't changed on it. No easy way to bypass the A/D-D/A or to use the players BM.

I can no longer dim my front panel, did this get left out or am I doing it wrong?

Auto-Cal still doesn't work in my system. It still insists my dipoles are bigger them my mains which have six drivers and a powered woofer.

Does anybody has problem installing firmware update program into the computer once it downloaded? For some reason, my labtop computer refuses to intall the program. I am going to try it again later as I have more time. Meanwhile if anybody has same problem and able to find out why, I will appreciate your help. Thanks.

I spent all morning with this, but keep getting a device restart error...no matter what I have tried, I can't get this to work with usb.

BTW, I checked, and there is nothing in the FIRMWARE folder in the Program Files Outlaw folder. Does anyone have something in that folder?

I noticed the firmware *.bin file didn't get moved to the firmware folder, I had to browse to the folder I installed from.

i for one like my sub on when using bypass , so please dont change it, switching your mains from small to large is no big deal for those who just want the mains on with no sub. Harmony remotes are very easy to customize perhaps one of these with a macro that switches the mains from small to large would satisfy this person

Obie, I somewhat agree with you. I applaud the Outlaws for providing updates, but frankly I don't think I will download it. Now that I only use HDMI sources and have no way of running an analog cable cleanly to my projector the lack of not being able to do the most basic of things on the front panel is discouraging. If I did install the new software I would either have to buy a small tv or a 40ft s-video/composite cable just so I could set it up again. Too much of a hassle for what the upgrade includes. Hopefully they can do more than lip sync next time for the front display. I would like to be able to rename the audio inputs, but that really isn't a pressing matter for me.

zest - Do you have to re-adjust your sub level when you switch to any other mode? When I go to bypass with the mains small my sub is about twice as loud as the mains and will literally blow me out of the room.

Bypass mode bypasses all bass management and I think that is the way it should work. In Stereo or Upsample the 990 is able to control the bass. If you set your Fronts to “Large” and the Sub to “LFE Only” the sub will be off in all 2-channel modes including Bypass. That is one option. Another option that I have taken is to connect the sub via the speaker level inputs and setting the Sub to “None”. This way you can use bypass mode or any other mode and you would not need to change any settings even when listening to Dolby Digital or DTS. These are just some ideas. I will probably continue to experiment as I have for years now.

I was unable to update with my laptop using the USB connection. Pulled a PC out of mothballs, and was unable to update over the serial connection but it did work using the USB. So if you have access to more than one PC, give another a try. During the entire ordeal, I was able to turn the 990 into a brick. The thing didn't work until I completed the update. So beware, things may go wrong.

Pain in the ass and this is why I've used Macs for the last two years.

So only your Mac could perfrom the upgrade? Do they still make computers?

Does Bentley still make cars?

Reads as if he got it to work using a PC via the USB connection.

I suspect the only way you can do the upgrade with a Mac is via VirtualPC. I haven't downloaded up upgrade yet, as I am hesistant to attempt it via VPC.

My upgrade went very smooth using a laptop PC and USB cable. Didn't do much for me, Large Mains and LFE Only did not change. I would have liked to seen the digitalization on the 7.1 optional, without having to set all speakers to Large.

I agree Bypass should bypass the BM but what it is doing is summing the L&R when the L&R speakers are small, when IMHO it should be (L+R)/2, at least in my system it appears to work that way. Can anyone actually use the summed bass without cutting the sub level down by about half? Maybe it is just my system? The problem with hooking the sub directly to the player LFE is you lose any re-directed bass from any speaker set to small.

The problem is I don't want to have to be switching speaker sizes around continuously. Many of us are using projectors with digital inputs so we don’t have easy access to the on screen displays. I would like to cross my mains at 40hz and the rest at 80hz and leave it at that. I can’t do that unless I want my stereo Bypass bass to be about two times hotter then it should be. I also can’t use the BM in my universal player unless I set everything to large or go through an extra A/D-D/A, which amazes me since Outlaw kind of pioneered the whole analog bass management thing in their other products.. At a minimum I’d like to be able to easily switch speaker sizes front the front panel like on the 950. Better yet a couple of discrete remote codes would do the trick.

amen!
my previous AVR that I was using as a pre-pro did it. with the push of one button, 2-channel bliss set to large and no sub. to me, subs add something artificial to music. guess i got used to something and i'll just have to get used to not having it. mostly likely i'll be putting my 2-channel rig to a little more use

i'm not sure i will even do the firmware upgrade.. seems like very few upgrades to be had.. and used actually.

Can anyone confirm that current firmware with fronts set to large and sub set to l/r+lfe that the l/r did not get through, and the new firmware fixed this? My question relates to getting the proper sub signal when using vhs tapes (prologic) going into one of the analog inputs.

Also, has anyone had success with a "matrixed" DTS 6.1 going into the 7.1 analog inputs, or through coax?

One interesting finding with the new firmware: the 7.1 Direct input cannot be renamed. Also, I am not certain of this but I think that the menu display stays up a bit longer than before, giving the user more time to make any changes.

I'm not sure about the first item, but you might be interested in looking at the analog and digital bass management matrix that Outlaw posted along with the firmware update.

As for the second item, I'm game to do some experimenting, but I'm not sure what the question is. A DTS 5.1 soundtrack routed to the 7.1 analog input is purely 5.1, with no processing possible. A DTS 5.1 track delivered through digital coax can get straight DTS processing, DTS+PLIIx processing, or DTS+NEO:6 processing applied. DTS-ES is restricted to discrete DTS-ES soundtracks; the former DTS-ES Matrix mode has been officially phased out by DTS in lieu of DTS+NEO:6 (a case of semantics alone, since DTS-ES Matrix always used the NEO:6 matrix processing to get a surround back signal).

Who?

Thanks Gonk. Scratch the analog thing. I wasn't thinking when I wrote that. My question concerning 6.1 was directed at DTS-ES. Forgive my ignorance, but I thought there were some dvd soundtracks (i.e. Lord of the Rings and Star Wars 1) that were recorded with 6.1, and dvd players that could encode to DTS-ES would matrix the 6th channel into channels 4&5, as opposed to a matrixed stereo output. Is this correct? If so, would the 990 auto detect this or is this really NEO:6. I thought NEO:6 was a 2-channel signal only, with other channels matrixed within. That would appear to be more bandwidth limited.

Anyone been able to dim the front panel display with the new firmware? I've resorted to having the display turn off but it kind of freaks me out to look over and see everything off.

There is a nasty bug in the sub trim which people need to be aware of if they value their subwoofer. Otto actually found it and I have verified it. See this thread for the details. This explains why my bass was so far off when I was testing the stereo bypass above.

off all the processors I've ever used.. the 990 is the toughest to correctly dial in the subwoofer to proper levels.

Once set up... it's ok. But i've spent more time dailing in the sub than i ever have before.

NEO:6 used to be limited to two-channel sources, but it wasn't able to compete well with Pro Logic IIx that way (since PLIIx can extend 5.1 material to 6.1/7.1) and it was being used in the background anyway as "DTS ES Matrix." By the time Outlaw shipped the 990, DTS had changed their standard for DTS ES and NEO:6 so that NEO:6 can be applied to multichannel sources to generate a surround back signal. There are some DTS-ES Discrete discs (Lord of the Rings EE being very notable examples along with Gladiator; Star Wars only uses Dolby Digital EX); those discs contain flags that automatically enable DTS-ES decoding to properly extract the surround back signal. Since no DVD players have offered 7.1 analog outputs (even the new HD-DVD players don't, although they should), DVD players have never included DTS ES or Dolby EX decoders - you must pass the digital bitstream unaltered to your receiver or processor.

The 990 will auto-detect any flagged DTS-ES or Dolby Digital EX content and process it as required by the flag. DTS has been pretty consistent about this from the beginning of DTS-ES's life, while Dolby's approach to the mastering of EX flags in soundtracks has been a slow evolution - early EX discs weren't even identified as such in software or on the packaging, and there are still newer discs that don't use the flag. Most Dolby EX discs and all DTS ES discs (at least all the ES discs I've seen) are flagged, and the 990 will obey those flags automatically. For unflagged Dolby Digital EX discs, the 990 will assume it is a Dolby Digital 5.1 soundtrack and treat it just as it would any other track - which in my case means applying Pro Logic IIx processing. Star Wars discs typically don't seem to include the flags, since I haven't had Dolby EX override my PLIIx preference with them.

Was this even promised? I'd like the feature as well, but I thought it was ruled out for the hardware.

Maybe I'm on crack but I could have sworn the previous FW let you have three levels of brightness.

There's a display time out setting (which has always been there), but there still isn't (and wasn't as far as I can tell) a way to change the brightness.

I'm on crack then I could have sworn you could dim the display using the up and down buttons on the front panel. Did the 950 have this?

The only time the display dims for me is when I set the sleep timer. It worked the same way before the update unless I just didn't know how.

Thanks Gonk. I understand fully now. So the trick I suppose is to set the dvd player so that is passes through the bitstream unaltered, and let the 990 work with the DTS-ES. I'll try this as soon as I'm back up and running (redoing the theatre room right now).

Back onto this firmware update - Scott can you tell us if the latest firmware - 1 is available, in case I load in the latest and wish to roll back to what I had before?

Is there a way to revert or reload the older version of the the firmware if you are not satisfied with the upgrade?

I don't yet have a 990, but am very seriously considering getting one. I think I have a simple question, but these bass management bugs are so complex, I'm having trouble knowing if my question is simple or not.

If I set my fronts and center to large and my surrounds to small and my sub to LFE, will I be happy with the 990's bass managment?

My criteria for happiness are: 1) movies sound right with the sub doing it's thing on explosions, passing jet planes, exhaling dinosaurs, etc., 2) when I switch to 2-channel stereo to listen to CDs, there is no sub, and 3) I don't have to continually reconfigure anything as I jump between DVDs, 2-channel stereo, 7-channel stereo, ProLogic IIx, etc.

Looking at the bass management matrices, I think I won't encounter any problems. But since I don't know precisely what was wrong with bass management before the upgrade and how things have changed now, I can't tell for sure.

Thanks for the input.

In the scenario of fronts and center large, surrounds small, and sub LFE only, your sub will pick up low frequency load from the surrounds (which will not be significant) along with the .1 LFE track that is intended for it. I wouldn't see any problem with that.

Jeff
I have Martin Logan mains and center, Spica TC50 side & rear and 2 LFM-1 subs. I set my mains to large everything else to small and subs to LFE. I have not notices any problems. With this setup the bass can be suttle to shake everything off the walls, it depends what you want. If I use the 990 for 2-channel music I use bypass which only uses the mains (I believe). The bass has never been a problem in having it over powering with any of the settings you are asking about. Even with all of the problems some people seem to be having. I would not hesitate to purchase a 990. I don't think you will be unhappy. Give it a try the worst that happens is you send it back at 30 day. But I doubt you will.

Oh my, the firmware upgrade has arrived. I guess that means they're passing out ice scrapers in the netherworld. 8-)

I'll have to give this a try.

Cheers,

I think the term large or small when selecting speaker size can be somewhat misleading. I think of the Rocket 750's as being a large speaker, but have set it as small and have the crossover at 60hz. AV123 as well recommends setting the speakers to small and using a 60 or 80hz crossover. This seems to work will for movies and multichannel music. For two channel, I would like to be able to set them as large , bypass the subwoofer and just use the left and right speakers.

With the new firmware, how are you guys handling prologic analog signals from a vhs? Does the sub setting l/r+sub work in this mode if front speakers are set to large? The matrix states in Dolby mode "Sm spkr bass + LR bass". Does this mean that even though the fronts are set to large, that anything below the crossover setting for the fronts also goes to the sub?

In other words:

Front: full range
Sub: front (below crossover) + "small spkrs" below crossover.

Analog sources that are processed with Pro Logic follow the same bass management logic as digital sources. That means that for large mains and the sub set to l/r+sub, the mains get a full range signal and the sub gets low frequency data from any small speakers plus the low frequency data from the fronts - exactly as you describe it. Even though the fronts are set to large, the sub gets low frequency data from those channels, as is intended for the subwoofer setting of L/R+Sub. Setting the subwoofer to LFE in that case would prevent this (the sub would only get low frequency data from small speakers in this case).

Sorry for repeating my post but does anyone know if the older version of the firmware is available if you are not pleased with the new version? I have not installed the new version but would like to know what my options are if I do.

Ok Gonk that makes sense. Doesn't this solve the issue then for those guys with analog stereo, such as from a cd, that want some of the lower frequencies from large fronts passed off to the sub? This is of course assuming that there is little noticeable loss in the adc-dac conversion in the 990 when moving from the bypass mode to the stereo mode.

MZpro5, I think the answer would be no. However, I am very critical, perhaps even cynical. But, I like what they have done with 990 firmware. Sure I would like more stuff addressed, but it sure is nice to be able to see the current mode without changing it. Also, being able to get to 7.1 direct from the panel is great too...

Oh, wait a sec, someone had posted about the "uninstall option" I didn't notice it, but then again I wasn't looking for it either. The interface is a multi step process to install, and the graphic that comes up on the PC had a few buttons grayed out, perhaps after software install they become active. But again, I am "happy" with the update.

blaineh

Thanks. I had no issues with my 990 previous to the new firmware so am hesitant to install per the number of problems people have reported plus "if it ain't broke . . ." The fact that an uninstall might not be possible makes me even more hesitant.

Thanks again.

mzpro5,

If one truly wanted to roll back to the previous version we would help them with that. However, this software update adds requested features and fixes some bass management issues.

There would be no reason to roll back, but again, if you wanted to do that we would provide you with the means to do so.

Best,

Scott

mzpro5 - Unless you are talking about problems with the actual install the new FW is definitely a step up from the old one. For me the 7.1 front panel select and the delay readout alone make it worth while. I’m only aware of one problem with the new FW and that is with the 2 channel sub offset that only manifests itself when you have a large (negative) attenuation on the sub channel. Sure there are lots of features we would still like to see implemented but this FW is a step in the right direction.

Scott, obie

Thanks for the info. The 7.1 front panel select is of no real interest to me the remote control is fine.

obie, not sure what you mean about the "delay readout" feature, could you elaborate?

From the installation description:

"The ability to view the Lip Sync delay time on the front panel display so that you may use this important feature even when an HDTV signal is in use through the component video or DVI inputs."

Very handy for those of us with projectors and digital interface.

Thanks again obie. Not quite at that point in my display technology and have had no lip synch problems so far.

I have just (I think) installed the new firmware into my 990.

Excuse my ignorance but what is the most obvious indicator that I have the new software installed?

To me, it appears nothing has changed. For instance, activating the 7.1 direct input from the front panel-how is this done?, by cycling thru- pushing the input button? I have tried this and I can't seem to input 7.1. This leads me to believe that the install failed. Same with renaming the audio inputs and also the surround modes on the front display. It all seems to work the same way as before.

Thanks in advance for any input

Did all of your previous settings get erased?

I know something was different when the lip synch delay numbers were displayed on the screen!

Press "Select" (center of the navigation buttons) and "Input" on the front panel while the unit is in standby. The firmware version will be displayed on the front panel. The new version shows up as "3.10 04".

Thanks for the replies.

Gonk, Yes indeed, I pressed the select and input buttons on the front panel and I still have the old version installed-3.07.04.

Hmmm!-Obviously I will have to try the install once again-not sure where I went wrong. All the steps seemed to work out exactly like they were explained in the instructions.

Any tricks or pointers to this?

Thanks in advance

Yep, no new firmware there. Are you using RS-232 or USB?

Did you follow the step below after you sent the firmware to the 990?

18. Reset the unit by pressing the front panel “Enter” (center of circular key pad) and “Menu” buttons simultaneously and holding them unit SYSTEM RESET appears in the front panel display. Release the buttons when the message appears and note that the Model 990 will turn off and return to the standby mode after a few seconds.

I forgot to do this step and the device came up with the old firmware. When I reread the instructions, I realized that I missed this part...

Yes! You must read the directions very closely. I missed one step and messed the whole thing up! was up to 2am in the morning figuring it out. If I would have paid attention, it would have gone smoothly!

Does everyone who updated the firmware get "3.10 04" as gonk reported above? I got 3.10 03.

Thanks for all your help fellow Outlaws!

Gonk, I finally got the new firmware installed via USB cable. Took a couple of tries and a bit of fiddling, got error codes, rebooted 990 then finally the loader program was recognized and the new firmware installed.

Cappra, Andrew. S, your right, you do have to follow the instructions very carefully, I actually missed a step the first go around as well and thats what caused the problem. Then when I retried, the part where you plug the USB cable in and the install window is supposed to pop up, it wouldn't. I tried several methods to get my laptop to recognize the new hardware (990) but to no avail.

I talked with Steve at Outlaw helpdesk and we thought the easiest way was to redownload the program on a fresh computer and try again ...very carefully. Seems you get one crack at it (probably is another way but my CPU skills are limited)- I ended up redownloading the firmware on my wife's laptop. Again after a couple of tries, voila - new firmware installed successfully.

Now to spend some time and see exactly what the new feature set includes and if there is a change in the way PL IIX Music sounds as I believe was previously reported on this thread .

Have a great weekend

GreenGrass

I had the same version # as Gonk. You may just have to try again. The problem I had was separating the loader from the actual upgrade. The folder and content was there but when I tried to open it, it would not create a new folder with the loader in it.
Fortunately our computer tech was coming to the house to work on the network and he was able to find the information. I took him about 5 minutes and going through about 12 different windows to get to all of the icons in one window. I am sure this was not the way it was suppose to work. I am not that knowledgeable about computers and would never have found it on my own.
At the end when you hold down the select and menu button the 990 the display would go dark but not come back with the message. The down load did take so I decided not to worry about it.

After I finally got the firmware updated I tried this morning to verify the version number per Gonk's post above. All I ended up doing was reseting the system so I had to go back in and adjust/calibrate again. No big deal, just curious what I am doing wrong. I have noticed a couple of minor issues:

I renamed the audio "AUX" input to "SAT". However the third letter defaults to lower case. Is there some way to toggle from upper to lower case on the system? Also in order to check the BM on an analog input I cycled my cd player from coax to analog while playing. When it switches to analog the first time there is no bass coming out of the subwoofer. If I cycle the input switch to a couple of different inputs and then go back to analog I then get bass output from the supwoofer. Very odd. No big deal as it appears my system is handling the BM in analog and digital the same way (small speakers set all the way around and sub set to yes)

I just did the upgrade with no problems. One note, the instructions say to "push the button" to service mode. Since I can not see the back up the unit, it took a few tries to figure out it is a slide switch that should you need to "slide down" rather then push.

Use W2K/usb and the upgrade worked fine. W2K did however say after I was complete, I needed to reboot for the new device driver to take effect. Ooops.. Oh well it worked anyway...

Nice job on the bass matrix and the new PLII processing.

Bernie, if you are at lower case letters, scroll back to "a" and keep going until you get into the capital letters - the character options are something along the lines of "numbers, symbols, capital letters, lowercase letters," and I suspect that you scrolled down from X to Z and then on into the lower case set. Also, the key strokes for resetting and for checking firmware are very similar. "SELECT" and "MENU" resets the unit, while "SELECT" and "INPUT" displays version number.

I just did the upgrade today; I wound up combining a couple of USB printer cords so I could use my main computer without moving anything around (besides untangling the printer cords). I didn't have any problems except trying to move the small SVC switch back and forth. I didn't have the right screwdriver and my hands are a tad large and clumsy. I did finally get it though. Everything worked as advertised. I didn't use the PLII music mode enough before the firmware to compare, but it sounds good now. Are there any advantages to using the USB connection over an optical cable (my motherboard has an optical connection)? I can't think of any.

Actually, the optical may have benefits depending on what you are playing back - the 990's USB input doesn't support Dolby Digital or DTS bitstreams (it's limited to PCM).

i did the upgrade today... and it went very smooth.. had a friend help me.. but it's really not very tough at all. The step by step instructions posted on this web site.. helps and walks you thru it all the way.

Anyhoo, i LOVE the DPLII movie and music smoothness now. before my front (LCR) soundstage was never very smooth when music or a movie would have left to right action.. or right to left action in it. You could always pick out each speaker. Now the front soundstage is very smooth and even. Panning from left to right or vice versa is where it should be.

The lip sync readout on the front wasn't a big upgrade for me really.. for those people who needed that feature, i can see where it would be helpful. In my case, I was able to see in on my TV (OSD).. and adjust it that way. So very minor upgrade there IMHO.

The problem I have encountered now is that when I do the Auto Set Up.. it will not complete it anymore.. it goes thru all the speakers and sets the delay.. and then trys to set the levels.. but once finished.. it says I because I have small fronts (which I don't, I have large towers) and large surrounds (here again, I have small surrounds).. it can't complete the set up process. and recommends I power it off and set the fronts and surround manually.. which i do. and try again. and still get that error message.

So i'm confused why it is saying I have small fronts and large surrounds.... which is wrong. I wonder if it's in the subwoofer I have choosen? I have FT+LFE

I will probably have to set up the levels manually i guess with the SPL meter.

Skyblazer,
I had the same issue with auto-speaker setup after installing the upgrade. I even tried switching mic's and still received a message that my fronts and backs were reversed, which they're not. My fronts are quite large in fact, and everything is wired properly. I ended up doing it manually.

I've been without my HT now for 6 month's (for some reason my wife decided we needed to sell 2 months after I completed a dedicated HT in our old house. Coincidence?....I think not). The place we've been renting was just big enough for a 20" tv and nothing else (rental options are limited with a dog). We're just now moved into our new place, and the timing of the FW update couldn't have been better.
I finally got everything hooked up, and loaded the firmware Sunday night, no problems. The first thing I did was Auto Calibrate. I could never get this to work correctly before, but no problems this time. I've noticed that others have experienced just the opposite. I figured it was my prior room conditions, but was the Auto Setup modified at all with this update? I did a quick check with an SPL, and the settings were just about perfect.
Next I renamed all my inputs....nice. I then threw in a CD and listened through the various setings. Hey, where did all the extra bass go???
Next came the Master and Commander DVD (one of my personal favorites) for a little movie demo. Awesome!
While I was not able to play around much more due to the holiday, my initial impression of this FW update is extremely positive. The limited listening I have done was very satisfying, with the music sounding much more natural. It was much easier to compare the various formats without having to make numerous adjustments each time. I found the FW install itself to be relatively straightforward and painless.
All in all, an excellent job by the Outlaws!

I don't think auto-setup was changed - like you, I've been under the impression that the most common source of trouble was room effects (which would also make sense with your changed experience between the old location and the new one). Oh, and congrats on getting the system back up and running!

Jim K that's what i ended up doing.... it's not a pain in the ass to set it up manually.. i'm used to doing that anyway. Just suprised that the auto calibrate won't work anymore.

FYI, Another Auto-setup causalty.

From the 990 - the settings are:
Pre-software up date:
Mains = small
surrounds = large

Post software up date:
Mains = small
surronds = large

manual setup:
mains, surrounds, center = small

Note: Mains could run large.

Bring on the Video Essential DVD and the sound meter. I love to tweak - so no big deal.

Mine couldn't have been better. Pre software the auto update set everything to large with no subwoofer and the delays were all screwy. Post update everything is perfect. Small all around, sub adjusted perfectly, and distances are spot on.

The only thing was that it added like 250ms of lip sync which was not needed at all so I just had to set them back to zero. So along with the bass management being much better I love the update!

Another auto failure here. My fronts are Paradigm Mini-Monitors with CC-370 center. The surrounds and backs are all Atoms. Sub is an SVS 20-39PC Plus. All speakers are set to Small.

Auto Setup incorrectly reports the rears are actually Large and I should make the appropriate change and redo Auto Setup.

I upgraded my 3.00.03 unit to what looks like 3.10.06 yesterday (instead of 3.10.07). The six doesn't really look like a 6, but has the bottom circle with the center dot above it, and the left upper dot also. However, I noticed a definite soundstage and presence improvement in PLII movie mode from my DirecTV source, and an improved 5.1 from the tuner. It also seems like the rears have more contribution. I didn't have time to go through a bunch of material, but really look forward to it now. I originally thought the 990 was great, now it's like it went another step up.

By the way, the first time trying to do the update, I got the error message about checking the cable, etc, and didn't do anything except try it again (after a power plug removal, instead of using the master power switch), when it worked fine through the 'success' just like in the detailed directions.

Anybody have the code for the DirecTV H10 HDTV satellite receiver?

Did you reset your 990 when you were done, Bobbski?

Yep--I got the message on the 990 display saying 'system reset' and the unit turned off, then in standby, and the default FM radio station came on.

Late last night I was going to re-check the version number, and hit the system reset combination instead. After that, the version read 3.10.03. (And of course the wife wasn't too happy when I had to redo the speaker autosetup cause all the settings were cleared).

Like Andrew S on page 2, I've been unable to complete the upgrade - just getting the "Device Restart" window over and over, whether I reset the Master Power switch in the back or actually unplug and then reinsert the power cord. The error happens during the Erase phase. So now I have a 28 pound brick and no stereo or HT system.

If Steve emails me some useful instructions I'll pass them on.

I also received multiple "Device Restart" messages (using a USB cable) when trying to do the upgrade. I followed the instuctions for turning the 990 off and on within the 1 second etc, but kept getting the same message. Then I disconnnected the cable, rebooted my laptop (which I hadn't done since downloading the software) and then it ran fine. It seems the reboot did the trick.

For those who seem to be having trouble with the upgrade, a silly question: If you've been using USB and getting a failure, have you tried using the serial connection for the upgrade, or ht eother way around if you are having trouble getting it to take via RS-232?

Thanks for the advice, Jim K. However my wife turns her laptop off every night and that's at least 5 reboots since I downloaded the software, so it would be a wonderful surprise if your advice worked.

Re PodBoy's question, is there a special term for a male-male RS-232 cable that has 15 pins at the end that attaches to the computer and 9 pins at the end attached to the 990? I couldn't find such a cable at Radio Shack.

If your computer has the older style 15 pin serial connector the best thing is to get a standard serial cable with the nine pin connectors on each end and then get an adaptor. Radio Shack should be able to hook you up with that combo.

I had the same device error message using the usb. The problem was from not following the directions. After a couple of failed retrys I disconnected the usd cable (like it would be if you were doing the install the first time) before doing the one second power reset and the rest is as they say history. New version is up and running. Maybe this will help.

Wipper snapper, I wish my experience matched yours. I'm just trying it again, and when the "Device Restart" message came up I (1) clicked the OK button in the popup, (2) disconnected the USB cable from the 990, (3) clicked the Master Power button off and then on again, (4) reconnected the USB cable to the 990. The "Device Restart" message hasn't reappeared, but the upgrade loader window now shows "Erasing" and the progress bar has disappeared, and that's the way it has been for the last fifteen minutes. Just like so many times before.
Have I done it the way you suggested?
About the only other thing I can think of now is to check the local RS to see if the RS232 adapters I need have come in yet (I have a 9-pin female-to-female cable).
This is either depressing or infuriating, depending on one's temperament.

psyprof1,

I just upgraded my 990 this evening and also got the device restart error.

I did the following in these exact steps...
1)Clicked OK button on the software loader
2)Quickly depressed the Master power switch off and on
3)Clicked the upgrade button on the software loader screen

All worked fine after these 3 steps.

Thanks, Petey B, maybe I'll try this tomorrow. But frankly, as long as I continue to run a purely stereo system without a subwoofer, I don't think the upgrade is any use to me anyway. Right now I'd be happy to get the 990 back on line in its original version. So how do I do that?

psy,
Don't know the answer to that.
Sorry.

I haven't had a lot of time to listen since the update...but I will say that Stereo performance has definitely improved.
There is no longer that big volume difference between Stereo, Bypass, Upsample, & 5 Ch Stereo.

I browsed through most of the messages here and I have successfully upgraded my 990 after repeated failures. One issue I have (and maybe it's me) but the audio performance now seems to be flat since the upgrade when listening to regular audio cd's. It appears that there is too much Midrange and the Highs and Bass seem to be lacking the punch they had before the upgrade. All my original settings were restored to the way I had them prior to the upgrade. Also, it seems that I need to raise the volume more than before. Is anyone else experiencing this problem. Also, is there a way to reverse the upgrade?

Apparently it can't be done, Petey B. Steve says I should do the upgrade via the serial RS232 cable but my wife's Compaq Presario 700 laptop has no serial output. At this point I seem to be stuck.

Frankly I never noticed any "big volume difference between Stereo, Bypass, Upsample", and I have (had!) no reason to use 5 channel stereo anyway. I hope I will hear some stereo again soon.

Woj - if you set all the trim levels exactly the same as before, you may want to re-calibrate. Several folks have found that the subwoofer levels differ from before.

Gonk - I've tried adjusting the calibrations, but still am missing something. I also tried adding more Bass and Treble to offset the Mid, but ends up sounding muddied. I have found that there seems to be more LFE as I had to lower the amp on my buttkicker.

psyprof1,
Try what Petey said. Do NOT disconnect your USB cable.

Hello psyprof1,

With both your computer and Model 990 powered down, disconnect your USB cable. One of the tricks for not running into the "device restart" message is to plug your RS-232 cable or USB cable in with the master power switch on the rear panel set to "OFF". Follow the exact sequence below:

1) Press the master power switch on the rear panel of the Model 990 to the "OFF" position.

2) Insert either your USB or RS-232 cable into the back of the Model 990.

3) Switch from "opr" to "srv".

4) Connect the RS-232 or USB cable to the PC.

5) Turn on your PC and wait for it to fully power up.

6) Press the master power switch on the rear panel of the Model 990 to the "ON" position.

7) You are now ready to run the installer.

The questions of others re the differences in version numbers, ie, 3.10.03 vs. 3.10.04 has not to my knowledge been answered as yet.

Scott, is there a difference in the two versions other than the number?

Would it perhaps relate to when the firmware was downloaded from the Outlaw site (ie how recently), or, as others have stated, to the serial number of the particluar 900 being updated, or to some other factor(s)?

ADDENDUM: Just spoke with Steve at tech, and he was able (as usual!) to clarify the issue. The last two digits have nothing to do with the firmware, but rather, reflect the build date of the particular 990 being updated.

Gonk, I am too lazy to check former emails, but ask you the followings (which appears that you had answered before):-

1/. How to dim the front pannel of the 990?

2/. How to read the version of 990 from the front pannel?

Tks.

Kwok

1. I believe the technical answer is "no" - there's been some discussion lately that this would be a good feature to add (and the display appears to support it, as it dims when in sleep mode).

2. When the unit is in standby, hold down the "ENTER" button (middle of the navigation pad) and the "INPUT" button together. The unit will display the version number on the front panel for about 10 seconds. (And remember, don't press "ENTER" and "MENU" at once unless you want to reset the unit to factory defaults.)

Gonk: Tks. You are the best and I don't care what others say about you. Hee heeeeeeeee
(Just joking, nobody says bad words on you, man!)

Have a nice day.

Kwok

Heh-heh. I'm an engineer, Kwok - contractors and architects are required by law to say bad words about me at least a few times per project (or a few times a day).

Glad I could help...

Scott and Gonk,

Thanks for your advice messages. I've tried them both - with no success. The upgrade loader still freezes at either the erasing or the data setting step. This time it's data setting - been stuck there for over 15 minutes now. On both attempts today there were "device restart" messages. I have followed Scott's instructions (sent earlier today) exactly both times, and this last time I also cycled the Master Power switch several times, per Gonk's private message to me. To no avail.

I sure wish I could say "Thanks and congratulations - your idea worked!"

Psyprof1, I ran into exactly the same problem as you. What seemed to solve it for me was doing both of the following:

1. Disable ALL background programs running on your computer.

2. Push the master power switch as many as 6 or 7 times in rapid succession.

Hope this helps...it worked for me.

Just wondering what is a null modem cable, I bought a serial extension cable {belkin} from the local Staples store, can this be used for the firmware upgrade, psypro1 I hope you got your 990 working, I first bought a usb cable but saw the trouble you and others have had and am going to go the serial cable route.

DON'T use a null modem cable. It is an old configuration that will not work. If you use a serial cable, make certain it is a "straight through" cable.

Gonk, my firmware version is 3.10.3. Do you have 3.10.4?

Kwok

you can download the new version 3.10.4 right from here on the forums.

There are several people reporting that they're getting 3.10 03 reported rather than 3.10 04. We're not sure yet why, but if you've got 3.10 then your update worked.

Might be the most "senior" outlaws got a better version.....as you are! Hee Heeeeeeeeeee, something unfair and need to be picked.

Kwok

This was from CI in another thread.

ADDENDUM: Just spoke with Steve at tech, and he was able (as usual!) to clarify the issue. The last two digits have nothing to do with the firmware, but rather, reflect the build date of the particular 990 being updated.

Well, it makes sense if my 990 is older than Gonk's on......i.e. 3.10.4 vis 3.10.4

As long as the upgrade works, why care much. Well said man.

Kwok

Sorry, wrong typo. I said 3.10.3 vs 3.10.4 in above message.

yes, I am assuming it is a straight thru cable , it says on the package serial extension cable, seems to be for extending a mouse or other devices with a DB9 connection, so will this work for the upgrade?

My 990 is upgraded at last. Thanks to all for encouragement and advice, and especially to Steve who talked me through it on the phone. Removing and replacing the power cable after the Device Restart message instead of just clicking the master power switch seemed to make the difference, thought I thought that had been one of the things I'd tried before. Anyway it worked this time.

Was anybody else surprised at having to name all the audio inputs from scratch (i.e., blanks on the display and menu) when you went to reconfigure after upgrading?

I wasn't surprised at all. it cleared out and reset all my settings too after the upgrade. it's a PITA, but once it's done, it's done.

At least - it's done until the next upgrade. Maybe to minimize future upgrade PITA's we ought to make a note of which line of the configuration menu screen each of the audio inputs is on. TUNER is on the first line, but the blanks on the other lines caused me some guesswork, and my first guesses weren't all correct. Did any of you have a better strategy?

nope. but after the upgrade.. i was no longer able to run the auto calibration. to this day it still won't work anymore. before the upgrade it worked.. after the upgrade.. no worky anymore.

I just got back from a long-ish trip and decided to throw caution to the wind and try the firmware upgrade via USB (it didn't work). Fortunately, I had a serial cable and my notebook seems to be one of the dying breed with a functioning serial port. Using the serial port, it updated just fine.

I get the same error on the autocalibration. It claims my rears are large and my mains are small and suggests I switch them. You'd think someone would have stumbled on that bug during testing...

Otherwise, the upgrade went without a hitch. I'm going to have to get around to calibrating things manually with a sound pressure meter.

In spite of those nuissance items, the bass management does seem to be a lot better now.

Perhaps they'll release a firmware fix for the new firmware so that autocalibrate will work again and USB upgrading will work properly.

I'll play with it over the next few days and see how things go.

Cheers,

There have always been cases of this happening, although in some cases people have been able to resolve it by adjusting the placement of the microphone. Some folks have had autosetup work better in their systems with the new firmware. Mine behaved the same (although I used a camera tripod in both cases to get the microphone up to ear level - and above the back of the couch). There have also been several reports such as yours in which the autosetup claimed small mains and large surrounds with the new firmware. I'm not sure if there even was a change to the autosetup in the firmware. Of course, it would be cool if the autosetup could be refined in a future firmware release.

It has to be a firmware issue since nothing else in the system or the environment was changed and autocalibration has always worked in the past (though it never quite got things right).

I've just tried listening to some 5.1 music programming and there is definitely an audible improvement. So in spite of the glitches, it seems to be a worthwhile endeavor to upgrade.

Out of curiosity, I wonder if Sherwood firmware would work in our units or if Outlaw firmware would work in a Sherwood?

Cheers,

I have heard that Sherwood firmware works on the Boston Acoustics units, but the 990's DVI switching isn't supported by the Sherwood firmware and I wonder what else might be squirrelly.

Got the upgrade done yesterday. I did this with a friend of mine helping. Both of us are technically oriented, and not novices with electronics/computers. I can't say how many device restart errors we saw, following all instructions step-by-step. At one point, the original firmware was erased prior to the error, leaving me in a very precarious position. THIS SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN!!! This is a firmware upgrade, and if it fails, you've got a very expensive brick. I don't know why or how we finally got it to work (tried various USB and RS-232 options, but no idea why the one that worked actually did). While the majority of people appear to have gotten things working, there are way too many errors in the installer, as evidenced in this thread, for it to have come out in that form. A firmware installer needs to work, first time, every time, as long as the instructions are followed exactly. This one does not have that level of reliability, and should not have been released until it did IMO.

I have been following this thread since it started (as well as the other threads).
I would like to do the upgrade, but there are more mis-installs than there are first time successes (or second or third). I can live with my 990 the way it is, but why?
Why can't we get a reliable firmware upgrade?
Scott? Are you guys looking into why there are soo many attempted/failures with this?
I had planed on doing my upgrade in the next 2 weeks, as I will be rearranging my entire system, but am just so leery about having the same problems that others are having. If it goes wrong, my entire system, audio and video, will be worthless and unusable until it could be fixed. Everything relies on the 990 to work right. I don't want to have to deal with that scenario.

Lonster

Since I was pretty much in Dybbuk's position, except worse because I really had a "very expensive brick" for several days, plus all the time and stress the whole procedure cost me, I have to agree with his conclusion that the upgrade was released prematurely. That doesn't lessen my appreciation of Steve for staying on the phone with me until we knew the upgrade was successful, but the point is that it shouldn't have been necessary. I guess the "learning curve" Steve mentioned to me just turned out to be steeper, with more twists and turns, than anyone anticipated. So what can be done to prevent a repetition on the next upgrade? - more beta testing with Steve or Scott on the phone maybe?

From scanning these posts, it seems that people experienced more issues when using the USB cable.

Did anyone have a successful update with this cable?

Cheers.

I had a successful update using USB. Totally without problems. Only issue was I neglected to write down my setup before I did the upgrade. Took about half an hour to figure out which device went to which input. It is written down now. Again, no problems with update process.

But then I have no problems with my Dish 622, and if you read the Dish forums, I have the only unit in existence that works as specified.

Yeah, re-inputting all the setup parameters is a pain. Rather than writing it down, I just put my digital camera on a tripod and took pictures of every screen that I cared about. Then, after the FW install, I had all my settings on my camera and could just flip right through them. I ended up saving them on my PC in case I lose them on the 990, for whatever reason.

--Otto

I upgraded mine with a USB cable and it worked perfectly the first time. The only difficulty I had was getting to the OPR/SVC switch in among the mass of cables.

I don't know if it's within the realm of possibility but it would be nice if the updater had a settings import/export feature so you could reload your settings after an upgrade.

I updated mine via USB. It didn't work the first time for me but after re-reading the instructions, I discovered I had not followed them exactly. Followed instructions - successful update.

I don't believe the handful of people who have posted to this board with problems is a true representation of the viability of the update. There are 100's of us who don't post that have successfully updated.

I used a USB and had a successful update also.
my auto calibrate worked the same as befor and came up with the exact same settings.

Followed the directions to the letter, used a USB cable (came from my media card reader!) updated the firmware with no problem whatsoever. I would imagine that the people that updated their firmware without any problems would not be posting thier success, only the people that had problems. I wonder what percentage of people had this problem.

I recently purchased a 990, and had to to the upgrade. Used a USB cable, got an error. I turned the pwr switch off and on, then completed the upgrade w/out trouble.

it took me two trys using a USB cable for my upgrade.

I'm totally with you on this. I had said in earlier posts before the upgrade came out that I would wait as my experience with many upgrades in different products taught me to be cautious and patient. Plus there never was an indication you could revert to the old firmware if you weren't pleased witht he upgrade.

I am very pleased with the performance of my 990 with the old firmware but would like to try the new one particularly because of reports of improvement in sonic performance. I still can't bring myself to try it though due to the problems a number of people have indicated. I am also a bit disappointed by what seems to be a lack of response from the Outlaw gang in speaking to the problems people have encountered. C'mon guys you produce great products and we all have sung the praises of your customer service don't let us down now.

And I'm willing to listen if someone can convince me to try the upgrade.

I think cappra summed it up well.
There have been several cases where people had an excessively difficult time getting the firmware installed, and I've told Outlaw directly that I'd be strongly in favor of them trying to work with Etronics on a better firmware loader (the one being used by the 990 is the same one used by Sherwood), but there have been a lot of 990's shipped out and a great many of those have been updated painlessly.

I did my upgrade (via USB) with some confidence that it would go okay, but also knowing that the Outlaws would be there if things went down the tubes. Luckily my upgrade went fine, and IMHO the improvements to bass management alone outweigh any risks involved.

lets just hope that this was only the first of the upgrades... and that more will be released in the future.

I think with minor improvements in another upgrade... the 990 would be killer. The one everyone seems to agree on is the display dimmer on the face of the 990. With that and clearning up the problem that some of us are having with being able to use the auto calibrate... and i'd be very happy.

Ok, now it looks like there is a newer update to fix the sub trim problem a few people were having.

http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/34/t/000785.html

When I get my 990 delivered next week, would I have to install both S/W upgrades or just the one released today?

If I read Scott's post correctly, you should only have to install the new one. He indicates that it is otherwise identical to the last release.

NRBQLou is correct - just install the latest and you'll be fine.

I did the upgrade with the USB cable. You have to read the instructions carefully. I took my time to make sure I didn't miss a step. The instructions aren't completely accurate in all cases but it should be easy to work through the small vagaries. My laptop is a very current XP Professional setup.

I agree with the earlier comments that loader should be easier to use and be more reliable. I also think it should be fairly simple to read the old config and restore it afterwards. Being able to store more than one firmware image would be a plus also.

C'mon Mzpro5 let'er rip.

Upgrade the latest firmware last night using USB cable (to fix the sub-trim level bug). One "device restart" but successful second time attempt, I just used main power switch backpanel on/off during the process without actually unplugging the power cord. Since I didn't deleted the first firmware file, I have two version of firmware files in my laptop. BTW, this firmware upgrade did fix the sub-trim level bug for me. Even if there is some potential firmware upgrade problems, I will continue to upgrade the firmware as they become available.

I installed it last night, as well - and updated the firmware update portion of my 990 review today. It went smoothly, and I also verified that the sub trim bug was no longer present.

Has anyone noticed that with the new firmware, that in addition to the inability to rename the 7.1 input, that the Tuner input also cannot be renamed (eg, to AM/FM, or something else)?

Yep - although I only mentioned the 7.1 Direct part in my review's update notes . I didn't think much about the tuner's name being fixed - you can't assign a digital input to the tuner, so it'll always be the tuner - but I did find it interesting that the 7.1 Direct's name wasn't editable.

Thanks Gonk for giving closure on this!

I got my 990 today and I downloaded the newest S/W. I followed all the steps, but got about 5 "Device Restart" errors. (I am using USB).
It finally worked and did the master reset.
I checked the S/W ver on the front display and it says "3.11.04".
Does this mean that it did not install the 3.11.06?

Update: I just did the upgrade again. This time I got no "Device Restart" messages. After I got done, the FM tuner showed 87.50 like the directions said. I checked the S/W ver again, and still says 3.11.04.

Update 2: Ok nevermind. I was looking at the darn date the update was posted! So the update did go through oK.

I just did the upgrade. I write software for a living so I consider myself relatively good at such stuff. I got many many device restart errors. I used a USB cable. Suddenly, and I don't know why this time it worked versus others, after pushing the master on/off button and retrying the update, it worked. Pretty nerve-racking and agree that the software definitely needs to be more reliable. Maybe this time around I pushed the master on/off faster than before, who knows. I don't know if that could even make a difference.
I also just ran the auto-setup. I can guarantee my microphone is in the same exact position as before and the room has not changed. I too am getting the fronts-small surrounds-large error. Pretty annoying when a firmware updated introduces new issues.
Maybe Outlaw will make another firmware update to fix this issue. The auto-setup feature was something I really liked and was even a selling-point to me for the 990, now it's useless.

It is very important to make sure the master power switch is powered "OFF" when switching the unit from "opr" to "srv" mode.

Also, if your surrounds are being recognized as "large", than the crossover setting is too high. If there is too much activity below the selected crossover point for an individual speaker, the auto setup system will inform you that that speaker is "large". The correct course of action is to lower the x-over setting before running the auto setup.

Very interesting. Thanks for the info Scott! I will try this as soon as I get a chance. I had assumed that pre-existing crossover settings had no effect on the auto-setup process since my assumption was that the auto-setup was supposed to determine and set the best crossover setting itself.

That's some handy info, Scott - I wonder if modifying the default crossovers to be 80Hz instead of 100Hz would help alleviate this for folks who jump straight to the auto setup without making a first pass through the speaker size/crossover screens.

Cool, I am getting much better results now. No error messages. I just set all my speakers to large and then ran the auto-setup. Maybe the defaults should be set to start with the all speakers to large (or better yet don't use existing settings when re-running the auto-setup).
Oddly though, the delays are all correct in distance except the center. It is reading 15 feet for the left and right which is correct, but it is setting the center to 3 feet. Maybe I have some weird reflections going on or something. It didn't seem like it ever did this before. I'll keep experimenting to see if I can get the auto-set right.

You might also check the polarity of the connections to the center channel - reflections shouldn't shave time off the sound, but I don't know what having the phase flipped might do. I wouldn't expect it to cause this, but off the top of my head I can't rule it out, either.

Yeah, double-checked, polarity is fine. Not sure why it's setting it to 3 feet. Prior to the upgrade it didn't, but I'm not necessarily saying it was the upgrade. Just not sure why now.
Makes me wonder if I should leave it. I mean, if the software is computing it to 3 feet, maybe due to the room it does meet at your ears much faster than the other speakers.
I might try moving the microphone around (even though not in the listening position) just to see if it effects the computation.

I tried the latest firmware update today (the one that fixes the sub bug). I tried the USB connection instead of the serial (which I had to use last time). I kept getting the "device restart" error and was about to give up and switch to serial when....

My 6 year old son walked over and powered down the power strip servicing the 990. I grumbled, powered it back on and walked over to my laptop and clicked on the update button again one last time AND IT WORKED! So for those having that error, you might try a power cycle of the 990 and immediately try loading the update and see if that helps.

Cheers,

Nice move by the younger Ritz!

I too got about 6 "Device Restart" errors.
What I did was turned off the PC and 990. Then turned on the 990 and then turned on the PC.
After XP loaded up, I was able to install the S/W with no "Device Restart" messages.

I think that between Step 8 and Step 9, they should say to turn the 990 and computer off and then turn back on.
http://www.outlawaudio.com/support/990.html

Can I borrow your 6 yr old son? LOL :p

Heh. He's available for rental for all you firmware upgraders out there. :-) I'm going to market his services as Klever Little Kid. He will mystically improve your firmware upgrade experience as long as he's in the room where the 990 is being upgraded.

Cheers,

I'll also add that I found a loose nail in the wall (which was holding up a picture) when the autosetup initiated the subwoofer test tone. :p

Well, kind of weird. I moved my center channel from the below-TV shelf to on top of the TV. Now it calcs the distance fine. Must have some sort of weird reflection I guess. Not sure why I never noticed this situation running the auto-setup before though.

I too got a Device Restart error. On the restart the now completely anoying Windows Firewall Block/Unblock window appeared. Natrually I unblocked and the install went fine. Perhaps the dev restart errors have something to do with the users security settings. Either way, mine is done and still works. I'm leaving it alone.

Has anyone had no success with the USB whatsoever ?

Well, psyprof had a great deal of difficulty with the USB, although he did eventually get it to go through.

Yeah, with Steve holding his hand. What made the difference, as far as I can remember, was how to restart the 990 in the Device Restart situation. Clicking the master power switch off and on quickly as described in the instructions didn't do it, but leaving the MP switch alone and quickly pulling and reinserting the AC plug made the difference.
I think.
Good luck.

Just a thought....

I think Scala may be onto something. When I disabled my VCOM Systemsuite Pro firewall on my HP XP Pro system, AND all other background programs, the upgrade via usb finally went through after many hours of trying. It may be the thing that helps, that others haven't mentioned. Prior to trying that, I pretty much had the identical experience as PSYPROF1 did.

Hope this suggestion helps others.

I don't remember having to unblock the firewall on my wife's laptop during the process. As I mentioned earlier during this Update Saga, there seem to have been a lot of variables lurking in the field that the Outlaws didn't anticipate - part of the "learning curve" Steve mentioned to me. May the next update go much more smoothly for everybody.

How about an outline of the steps needed, inclusive of suggestions found to be helpful (or at least not cause any worsening of the problem), to help others install the firmware.

To get things started....


1. TURN OFF THE 990 AND THE COMPUTER
2. SWITCH THE USB TO SVC
3. CONNECT THE USB CABLE TO THE COMPUTER & 990
4. TURN ON THE 990
5. TURN ON THE COMPUTER
6. CLOSE ALL OPEN PROGRAMS ON THE COMPUTER

etc. etc.....

Maybe others can contribute to this outline of EXACT steps, in this simple "cookbook" form....

Maybe this is a silly question...but I'm stuck here.

The directions tell me to:
When the file listing pop-up opens, navigate to the folder where you have saved the installation files and click through the files to locate “outlaw.inf”. Click “OPEN” to continue.

The problem for me, though, is that I am only allowed to choose a folder - not the actual file. I cannot drill down any further than the folder.

What am I doing wrong??

Thanks

Nothing...

This is exactly what is supposed to happen with XP, and is, I believe, an error in the instructions. XP will pick out the proper file automatically from this folder.

That is why I am trying to get an outline started (see my post above) in a simple format, for new users to follow.

Maybe other outlawa will contribute to it!

So if I'm reading the chart right, the analog inputs have bass management. Does that mean that the multi channel inputs also have bass management, or do we have to still count on the source to provide that ?

The multichannel inputs do have bass management.

Wow I guess I got lucky my upgrade went perfect the first time without a hitch. After reading all the problems people were having I was about to take the unit to a friends house because my laptop only has USB and no RS232 ports. I followed the directions using usb, I did see why it could be confusing about the outlaw.inf file that kgt refered to, but once I opened the folder it was easy. I had no problems at all, but maybe the instructions should be rewritten or at least an XP version would be in order since that seems to be were most are having trouble.

Finally took the firmware plunge - 3 frustrating hours later it worked! The turning on/off of the 990 multiple times combines with one more on/off power cycle after yet another "Device Restart!" message is what it took. This after trying 2 different laptops and even RS232 mode. The Outlaws have got to make this easier for future releases.

Nothing - the instructions are not very accurate. The folder is fine. If it contains the inf file the "OK" button in the selection window will work. Also note that I ALWAYS had to also click the "Update" button to begin th upload process. That too is NOT mentioned at step 13. It IS mentioned at step 14 in the "Important Note" section that mentions the error message many of us received. The key for me was several rapid turn on/off cycles of the Main power switch after first clicking "OK" to the "Device Restart!" error. Good luck with the update - hopefully yours goes smoothly.

Gonk:

When I enter the menu, there is no bass management option for the 7.1 input. Where would it be ?

It's not an option there. The 990 automatically applies the same settings to the 7.1 input as to every other source.

About SAME SETTINGS:

I suggested to outlaw that since the level settings (speaker cal.) for one surround or stereo setup might differ from another NEO vs. 5 ch vs. 2 ch stereo, vs DD, for example, that it would be preferable if one's setting would be remembered, as are the surround settings per input.

7.1's could differ also.
Any thoughts?

Great.

Thanks

hell yeah. i was talking about this shortly after i got my 990 in March this year. I was surprised that the 990 didn't remember different settings for DD, DTS, PLIIx, etc. it applies the same settings for all different decode modes.

My old Marantz 5.1 receiver would remember the different settings for each decoded format. Some folks don't understand how useful this feature would be.

I use a set up DVD and a SPL meter.. and the settings are different when i set it up for DD over DTS.

Finally got the upgrade installed. Actually, my biggest error was user error. I used USB and skipped down too far in the directions (where I thought they only pertained to serial). Turns out I skipped down way too far.

Once I realized what happened, I got 1 Device Restart error before it went through.

Wasn't too painful, but wasn't too intuitive either.

I didn't really use the 990 at all before the upgrade, so I can't really comment on the performance enhancement. Everything seems to work fine now.

I still am confused by the subwoofer settings. What is LFE Only? I have large floor standing f/l/c and large bookshelf rears (which I set to small in the 990), but I don't know what to choose for the sub.

Still trying to understand all of the different surround options...dialogue sounds quite soft through my center channel compared to the rest of the system, even though I turned it up about 10db (I've been using primarily PLII Movie, I believe - maybe this is wrong as it looks like that is for 2 channel source material??). The speaker is in a cabinet (Axis 8024) and even though I pulled it out as far as I could, I think the cabinet and the strange design of the tweeter - speaker is B&W HTM3S - might be the culprits. Any ideas?

Cheers.

If the mains are set to large, the default is for the sub to be set to LFE (at which point it'll get the LFE track on 5.1 sources as well as bass redirected from small speakers in the system). The other option for the sub is L/R+Sub, which does the same thing except it sends a copy of the left and right channels below the left/right crossover to the sub (so you get that bass signal twice).

Thanks Gonk,
Per the 990 manual, I have the f/l/c crossover set to 40 and the rears set to 80. Also, per the manual, I have set the sub to LFE.

Here are the specs for my l/r (I don't really know what the range means):

Freq. Response 38Hz - 22kHz ±3dB on reference axis
Freq. Range -6dB at 30Hz and 50kHz

Center:
Freq. Response 42Hz - 22kHz ±3dB on reference axis
Freq. Range -6dB at 35Hz and 50kHz

Rears:
Freq. Response 49Hz - 22kHz ± 3dB on reference axis
Freq. Range -6dB at 40Hz and 42kHz

Would you say I have the correct crossover settings? Perhaps I should raise the center and lower the rears?

Also, during DVD playback, should I not be using PLII Movie? What should I be using?

Thanks again.

Actually, for those speakers, I'd set all speakers to small - unless you can get down close to 20Hz (or at least below 30Hz) at the -3dB point, it's technically not a full range speaker. Keep in mind that the crossover matters if you have the speaker set to "small." I'd suggest setting all speakers small, with crossovers of 60Hz for the mains (although you could try 40Hz to see how the two compare), 60Hz for the center, and 80Hz for the surrounds.

During DVD playback, the 990 will automatically engage Dolby Digital or DTS as needed. In addition to that, you can use Pro Logic II to achieve 5.1 from discs that contain only a Dolby 2.0 soundtrack. In my 7.1 system, I use Pro Logic IIx to get 7.1 sound from any DVD or TV program I'm watching. Granted, for some sources there is very little surround activity to be had even with PLII/IIx, but by and large I've been very happy with Pro Logic IIx.

Thanks Gonk - I'll try that when I get home this weekend and let you know if it helps.

Cheers.

Is there a way to turn off bass management for the 7.1 multi channel input ? my HD DVD player has bass management.

If the speakers are set to large, there's no bass management. You may also want to try disabling your player's bass management - it's limited to a single fixed crossover that may not be as good a fit for your system.

The player cannot be disable in terms of bass management. The only option it has is to set all the speakers to large and the crossover to 120. If that is the case, I would have to set my 990 to large speakers every time I use the 7.1 inputs? What would be the downside of using the player just as I said and leaving the 990 in my current configuration (speakers small all around, crossed at 60hz, with sub) ?

If the speakers are all set to large in the player, then the bass management is disabled (the crossover would not be applied).

great. Thanks Gonk.

KGT
I would set all of those to small and use 80hz xo for all.
My speakers are pretty much have the same mfr given FR response, and when I used 60hz setting, they did get some bass notes that they couldn't handle[HT]

The Hun,
Thanks for the advice. I changed the size to small and set the cross over for 60 for now. I'm going to play with it more, but because my sub is not anything spectacular (B&W's entry level ASW 300), I'm hesitant to send too much to it. I don't want it to dilute the sound of the 804s. Not sure if that makes any sense...

I'll continue to play with it to see what works best.

I downloaded the firmware upgrade for my newly acquired 990.
Guys, do you think it will pe possible installing it may lead to a non working unit?
In that case I'd rather refrain from it, as returning it to the USA is almost out of the question...
Now, I once had an Arcam AVR300 which was a notorious difficult upgrader, but whatever happened it always reverted to the in-unit software stored in ROM, after a few resets that was.
Daresay that'd happen for the 990 as well?

@kgt
I did play around a lot with the sub settings on my (now to be replaced) Marantz SR9600.
As often advised, I've set the crossover to 60Hz and my center and rears to small, although these went down to 45 Hz.
But I didn't like the sound (bit mushy and thin) so I stuck with 80 Hz, all bass to the speakers PLUS to the sub.
This sounds best, and I guess it'll be even better because I believe I can set the 990 to different level for the sub in stereo mode.

It is possible for a hiccup at a certain stage of the process to leave the unit with no firmware loaded, but you can retry the update process after that and finish loading the new firmware.

You are exactly correct that you can adjust the sub gain for stereo mode - it's the setting called "2 channel sub offset."

Gonk:

How do you access this screen to adjust the sub trim for 2 channel analog ?

Go into the 990's setup menu, select "Surround Config" (about half-way down the screen), and go to the option "2CH Sub Offset" near the bottom. You can adjust it so that the sub runs up to 8dB lower in two-channel modes than it does in surround modes.

Gonk:

You are a wealth of information. Thanks again.

PS. Just out of curiosity, how did you come up with the name "gonk", gonk ?

"Gonk" was a droid in Star Wars, and my PC in college (a big heavy tower with more steel in it's chassis than four or five modern PC's) bore an all-too-close resemblance to that droid - as a result, we ended up naming it "gonk" at some point. When I needed a user name for an online forum account (ShackNews, although back then it was still ShugaShack), I borrowed my old (by then long gone) PC.

Great story..

I read a lot of rewiews from guys on the update, is there a list of all the updates somewhere?

yes click on the Model 990 link. and the top two threads are about the updates.

The "Updates" link in my sig (next to the 990) has a summary of the two firmware updates and what was added in each (the second was basically a fix for one bug that cropped up in the first update).

Was this every resolved by anyone? If so how did you do it? I still am getting the calibration error.. saying it did not complete because I have small fronts and large surrounds. which i don't.

I also have not installed the last software update.. does that solve this problem? I hope so. i like using the auto calibrate.. it sounds better then when i set it up manually.

I don't know if you saw it, but back in June Scott posted this guidance on the auto-setup:
If you're still having trouble with auto-setup, you may want to lower all your crossover points from the default of 100Hz to something closer to 60Hz or 80Hz before running it.

my crossovers are set to 80Hz respectively... and i'm still getting the error.

I think i will do a reset today.. and see if maybe that will solve it.. then try the auto calibrate again. worth a shot anyways.

I use 80Hz also. I temporarily set my four surrounds to 60Mz and the auto setup worked correctly. Afterward I switched back to 80Hz.

I will try that too. I reset the 990 today.. now it's still not successfully completing the auto calibration.. very odd. because it worked before the software upgrade.

Now after the reset.. i've got a horrible lip sync delay problem. it's not adjustable with the lip sync offset.. it needs to go the other way.. -negative lip sync, not + lip sync.

I too followed the instructions step by step (being extra careful to remove the power cord before moving the selector switch to the SVC mode. I am completely dead now...MANY device restart errors and two PCs, two USB cables, and still no success - only more devise restart errors. Any help would be appreciated. I plan on calling Outlaw tech support on Monday morning - hopefully they can help get me back to the original firmware.

Thanks

No sooner than I posted my cry for help did my upgrade successfully completed...I have no idea what made it work after 17-20 attempts. All appears to be working fine now.

congrats neo.

my problem is small in compairson to other problems other people have mentioned. but most find a solution to their problem.

I did make some headway in my lip sync problem. I turned off the Pioneer DVD player for about 5 mins. that seems to help the lip sync problem so it's almost solved.. but still a slight offset on the audio and video.

Ok I am about to go through all of these setups as well but I found a great overview of bass management on the audioholics site. This is a good overview from a newbie like myself but it also has some good detailed info.

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/setup/loudspeakers/bassmanagementbasics.php

Sorry if it is off topic.