automatically setting the pre/pro to Dolby Digital when available

One thing my old reciever did that I wish my 990 did was that it would automatically set to Dolby Digital when that format was available. Now that I can't use the On screen display, it would be real nice if I could set it to automatically go to dolby digital instead of having to turn around and look at the face of the 990 in the back of my room. I always figured that the 990 would be able to do it and I just had to enable that feature. I can't seem to do it. Every time I watch something that just has two channel sound, my Outlaw obviously switches to pro logic ll. Then when I watch something in DD, it stays with pro logic instead of switching to DD. It would be even better if I could have it always set to DD EX because I have a 7.1 setup.

Instead of turning around you might want to (if you have the space and wife will let you) have a secondary tv or a small monitor for OSD. I use mine when just listening to audio and the big tv is off.
my .02

I have a small T.V. in the bottom of my gear rack to use OSD. I just want the 990 to automatically switch to DD when it gets a digital signal. My old A/V reciever could do it. I thought the 990 would be able to as well.

Me too

It was a nice feature on my previous AVR.

When you get a DD signal, the 990 has to apply Dolby Digital. When it shows Pro Logic on the front panel in those cases, it is applying Pro Logic in addition to Dolby Digital to achieve either 5.1 or 7.1 (Once the planned firmware update arrives, we'll hopefully have a way to push a button on the remote and display the current mode, but for now the most surefire way is to hit the "SURR MODE" button on the front panel.)

I've not had any trouble with this with my unit, but it may be due to a combination of personal preference and some two-channel setup. My DVD and cable sources have all been "taught" to use my preferred method of getting 7.1 sound: DD 2.0 through 5.1 use a combination of Dolby Digital and Pro Logic IIx-C to get 7.1, DTS 5.1 uses DTS+PLIIx-C (I've also used DTS+Neo:6, which is what used to be called DTS-ES Discrete), and PCM sources use Pro Logic IIx-C. My two-channel listening is done with the same source device (typically my Yamaha DVD player, but sometimes the OPPO as well) through an audio source configured to use upsampling with PCM stereo inputs. This saves me from having to switch back and forth from upsample to PLIIx for PCM sources (on the rare instances where I get a video disc with PCM audio on it).

Hmm. Thanks as always Gonk. I usually make the 990 go on DD EX even if it is only regular 5.1 DD. Would I be better off going with DD with pro logic llx for the rear surrounds? Or should I continue to force the 990 to DD EX? Thanks.

I'd suggest trying both, but in general I suspect that PLIIx will do a better job - not only is it a more recent matrix processing mode, but it also capable of generating "discrete" left and right surround back channels rather than the mono signal generated for both surround back speakers by Dolby EX.

Thanks Gonk. I will try it.

I assume that if a DVD has Dolby Digital EX like the Star Wars movies, it is better to use DD EX. Tell me if I'm wrong. I'm assuming that Pro logic llx is better for programs with standard DD.

Actually I suspect that PLIIx would still work well for Dolby EX tracks too, since all EX is doing is matrixing the back channel into the surrounds. Be aware, though, that some EX-encoded discs will use a more aggressive form of the EX flag that will force the 990 (or any other properly-programmed Dolby Digital processor) to use EX whether you asked for PLIIx or not. Case on point: I have found that the Lord of the Rings EE discs use the more aggressive EX flag, so the 990 will use EX (and changing it manually will be overridden if the 990 is forced to re-acquire the signal because I changed inputs or went into the DVD menu and returned to the program), but the Revenge of the Sith disc is EX encoded without using the flag (so the 990 automatically treats it as a Dolby Digital track and applies PLIIx for me).

Now I see why it does that.

With LOTR I usually use DTS ES Discrete. Usually DTS sounds much better than DD however I have heard that with LOTR, the DD track is much more aggressive than the DTS. Usually I find the opposite to be true.

For what it's worth, DTS ES Discrete is something of a special case - ES discrete must be decoded that way. DTS 5.1 can be decoded as straight DTS, DTS+Neo:6 (formerly called DTS-ES matrix), or DTS+PLIIx.

Yeah DTS-ES is the best format out there. Too bad more DVDs don't have DTS-ES. I would be happy if HDD or BD would have this format.

Blu-ray and HD-DVD will both support DTS-ES, but I doubt they'll use it much - DD+ and DTS-HD should both be superior formats. Of course, we can use DTS-ES now (happily decoding that SPDIF bitstream) without having to jump through hoops and stand on one leg just so like we're being asked to do to use the new formats...

I know this is kind of an old thread, sorry to resurrect it But this still occurs to me and is kind of annoying. I’ll be watching a high-def program and I’ll set the 990 to “Dolby Digital”. Then somewhere down the road, I’ll be watching another high-def program (with Dolby Digital) and just for the heck of it I’ll hit the “Dolby Modes” button to display on the front of the 990 what the current processing mode is and it’ll say “Dolby Pro Logic”. I can then hit the “Dolby Modes” button again and it easily switches to “Dolby Digital”.
I never specifically ask the 990 to use “Dolby Pro Logic” ever, when watching TV if “Dolby Digital” is an available surround mode. So why does it sometimes revert to “Dolby Pro Logic” and I constantly have to keep flipping it back?
The annoying part is that every channel I flip to I have to check the surround mode on the 990 to ensure I’m processing in “Dolby Digital”.

Here's something to keep in mind: not all HD material broadcasts in Dolby Digital 5.1. In fact, a surprisingly large amount of it broadcasts in Dolby Digital 2.0 - plain old stereo, just using Dolby Digital encoding. The 990 treats these two as distinctly different entities and remembers different decoding modes for them.

If the display only says "Dolby Pro Logic," then it is applying Pro Logic processing to a Dolby 2.0 signal. Applying Pro Logic to a 5.1 signal would require 7.1 speakers and would show up as "Dolby Digital+Pro Logic IIx." Based on that, it sounds to me like the 990 is doing what it should: decoding Dolby 5.1 as it should (with no additional processing) and applying additional processing to Dolby 2.0 (likely based on the "default mode" specified in the input menu).

Here's a trick I use to tell Dolby 5.1 sources from Dolby 2.0 sources. The front panel of the 990 has separate indicator lights for "SUB" and "LFE" near the bottom middle of the speaker cluster on the left. If the LFE indicator is lit up, then I've got a ".1" signal. If it isn't lit up, then I've got a ".0" signal that is probably only 2.0.

Yeah, I understand the defaults based upon the source signal (5.1, 2.0, whatever). I guess I don't understand why I constantly have to re-switch it to "Dolby Digital" when it is available. The key is that "Dolby Digital" is available, just not set to it. I was under the impression that the 990 would remember my last selection for a given source signal (5.1, 2.0, whatever). I have done it over and over and over for months, and still flip to some channels and it is back on "Pro Logic Movie" and I know "Dolby Digital" is available because if I select "Dolby Modes", I can cycle it to "Dolby Digital". It seems like at some point I will have set all defaults to "Dolby Digital" when it is available (and Pro Logic Movie when not), but I've never reached that point.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

"Dolby Digital" would be available with a Dolby 2.0 source because it is still a Dolby Digital signal, but it's going to be treated different from a Dolby 5.1 signal because people are likely to want different modes applied to each. As to why it keeps reverting to Pro Logic for Dolby 2.0, my only guess is that it is using whatever the input menu's default mode is set to.

For TV viewing, you may will be happiest letting Pro Logic II help out with Dolby 2.0 sources - many will contain matrix cues that are specifically intended for Pro Logic II to decode. That may be my personal preferences prodding at my keyboard, though, as that is what I prefer to do.

So maybe it is a Dolby 2.0 source and defaulting to Pro Logic. Gotcha.
If that is the case, and I then flip the 990 to "Dolby Digital", I guess the 990 doesn't automatically retain that default? In other words, it won't remember that I want Dolby 2.0 sources processed as "Dolby Digital" rather than Pro Logic?
I'll try checking the input menu's defaults. I just never did before as I thought selecting a decoding option automatically updated the default for that input.

If I understand correctly, my 990 behaves the same way as jrlouie's. Here's an example. ESPN-HD broadcasts in DD 5.1. ABC-HD usually broadcasts college football games in DD 2.0. I start off on ESPN-HD and the 990 correctly goes to Dolby Digital mode. I then flip to ABC-HD and the 990 stays in DD mode. Wanting surround sound, I select DD+PLIIx. I then switch back to ESPN-HD and the 990 stays in DD+PLIIx mode instead of going back to just DD. I change the setting then have the same issue when I change to ABC-HD.

Watch that LFE indicator on the front panel - if it's not lit when you have a Dolby Digital source (which would be indicated by the "Dolby Digital" segment on the front panel), then odds are you have a Dolby 2.0 input.

Darn it!
I can't consistently replicate it. But just now I was watching a standard-def movie channel and processing PL II Movie. I flipped to a high-def channel and the LFE indicator illuminated. I hit Dolby Modes to check what the surround setting was on and it was PL II Movie. I then hit Dolby Modes once again and it properly switched to "Dolby Digital". I don't understand why it didn't originally default to Dolby Digital.
If I flipped back to the original standard-def channel and then back again to the high-def channel, everything defaulted properly. Shoot.
I'll keep trying

Do you have surround back speakers enabled? Also, did it only say Pro Logic II Movie or did it say Dolby Digital+Pro Logic II Movie?

I have a 5.1 setup and never disable my surrounds. Whenever this occurs, it always says "Pro Logic II Movie" only.

When you changed it to "Dolby Digital" did it still show all five speakers and the LFE as being active? (That would confirm that it was a Dolby 5.1 source, in which case there may be a bug with the way the 990 is reporting the current processing mode...) Ooh! Are you running the latest firmware? If you are still running the firmware that you had back in the spring (3.07) rather than the newer firmware (3.11), pressing the surround mode button once actually changes the processing mode...

I have the newer firmware where if you hit Dolby Modes or Stereo Modes it displays the current setting and if you hit it again, it then starts cycling. I loved this in the new firmware.
I do remember that it for sure showed the LFE as being active when it changed to Dolby Digital. I didn't pay much attention to the other channels on the display.
Here is something I just now noticed. There is some defaulting-action that goes on and I wonder if it has something to do with my situation. I'm watching PBS right now and it seems to be a non-dolby digital broadcast (i.e. - I get Pro Logic II). If I switch it to "Dolby Digital + Dolby Digital vs 5-SP wide" just for the heck of it and then flip from PBS to another channel that is in dolby digital the processing is properly set to "Dolby Digital". Then if I immediately flip back to PBS the processing is Pro Logic II Movie. I think I read something about this in the manual on page 25. It lost my previous setting.
I guess I see the note in the manual and it sort of makes sense. But to me that dosn't mean things in dolby digital shouldn't default to "Dolby Digital". So that's what still baffles me.
I'll let ya know if I notice any more patterns

Darn! It for sure even happens with DVDs. I thought before it was doing it with DVDs too but couldn't remember for sure. Yep, had the 990 on watching TV, I put a DVD in, the previews started up, eventually I got tired of the previews and hit menu and chose “Play Movie”. The movie started and sure enough it was in “Pro Logic II Movie”. I hit Dolby Modes once and it flipped to Dolby Digital. And from that point on it is stuck/forced to remain on Dolby Digital (even if I hit Dolby Modes again). Dolby Digital is correct, but why was it ever on Pro Logic II Movie.

I tried to replicate it by powering down everything, starting out watching TV and then going through all the steps. Now it always goes right to Dolby Digital.

So frustrating that a pattern can’t be found. I highly recommend everyone to check the processing mode when you think it should be on Dolby Digital (it might not be).

So now I can confirm it is doing it on both my DVD player and my digital set top box. Just can’t replicate it consistently. And this is not a defaulting situation like the manual states occurs for Dolby Digital 2.0 or PCM sources. DVD, LFE indicator is illuminated, etc.

Annoying.

Another example, I'm watching the Zippo 200 nascar race right now. I just turned it on and the 990 went to Pro Logic II Movie. LFE indicator is lit and the dobly digital indicator is lit. If I hit Dolby Modes it goes to "Dolby Digital". If I change channels and come back it still goes to Dolby Digital (as it should). If I turn off the 990 and back on, it goes to Dolby Digital (as it should).
I have no clue why it was on Pro Logic II Movie before. I can't even get it to that now (not that I want to).
Think I should send the 990 into Outlaw? Sure is a pain, I'd hate too. This would be the 2nd time.

This is curious... If the "Dolby Digital" and "LFE" indicators are both on, then the 990 would appear to be properly recognizing and decoding the Dolby Digital bitstream, which makes me wonder if the displayed "Pro Logic II" is perhaps a bug in the way the active mode is reported (in other words, not a bug in the processing mode actually being employed). After all, the simple fact that you have audio at all suggests that it is properly applying Dolby Digital decoding, and the status of the front panel indicators seems to support that reasoning.

I don't think this is a case where returning your 990 to Outlaw is going to do you any good, unless the mode problem is accompanied by an actual loss of audio output somehow (which it appears is not the case). It may be that you've found an intermittent display bug?

Yeah, I see what you're saying there. But, I can say, that when I flip it from Pro Logic II Movie to Dolby Digital, there is a significant change in sound. So, sound processing is changing. I don't think it is just a display issue.

I've noticed before when watching stuff in Pro Logic II Movie that the center channel sounds different (even maybe louder) than items in Dolby Digital and that for example is what I notice when I change this to Dolby Digital (front soundstage is smoother across the board and center is less pronounced).

Yeah, I've never experienced audio dropout, so that is good. But I'm thinking it is more of a bug with the 990 not auto-switching to the proper processing mode. It almost seems like it can see the Dolby Digital signal coming in, but doesn't switch to Dolby Digital.

Too bad I didn't have another 990 I could plug in and use for a week or something and see if it does it also.

Well, I very well might have stumbled upon something. Possibly a bug/issue (whatever you want to call it) in the 990.
I thought for the heck of it I would unplug the left/right analog connection from my digital set top box to my 990, leaving only the coax cable hooked up. Well, it has been 2 days so far, and not once has it errantly defaulted to Pro Logic II Movie. Every single Dolby Digital broadcast has correctly set the 990 to Dolby Digital. I'm gonna give it a week before I completely make up my mind that I found the issue.
Unfortunately this sucks (if this is in fact the issue), because my zone two setup can't receive audio unless the analog connections are connected. If this proves to be the issue, it almost seems like the 990 isn't properly automatically making use of the supplied digital signal.

Now that is an interesting discovery, jrlouie - and one that can potentially be resolved with a firmware change, I suspect. In the meanwhile, if you have any spare inputs you could move the analog connection there and use that input for zone 2.

Interesting indeed - if a firmware change can allow digital signals to be sent to zone 2 - maybe after conversion to analog - maybe we can hope for a similar improvement for the Tape Out signals; i.e., letting them also include stuff from digital audio inputs, after being DACed, of course. Or would this require a hardware change, maybe a wiring split-off just before the volume control? That would fix one of the 990's few shortcomings.

My thinking regarding jrlouie's discovery was that it might be possible to isolate the analog stereo input from the DSP entirely when a digital input is specified for active input, so that the DSP wouldn't get confused and do something odd. In that case, though, the analog connection would still be present and available for the record output and second zone. I doubt that a firmware change can allow digital signals to reach the second zone or the record outputs - that gets into some signal management issues that quickly involve hardware issues. Producing a digital stereo signal could potentially be done in parallel with the main zone's signal (which is often multichannel), but converting that separate signal to analog would require an extra DAC. On the other hand, intercepting the signal downstream of the main zone DAC's would require either an analog circuit to downmix multichannel audio to stereo (if that is even possible, something that I'm not qualified to speak on) or a willingness to discard center and surround channels in the second zone when the main zone is operating with a multichannel source. And all of that is just for the record outputs, when the signal in question is the same one going to the main zone - for the second zone, it gets more complex.

I wonder if the 990 has a given timeframe it tries to detect both analog and digital signals and maybe that timeframe isn't long enough. Maybe the analog signal hits the 990 sooner and the digital detection "times out" so-to-speak. So, it grabs the analog signal and miliseconds later the digital signal finally is received by the 990 and it is too late by then.
I really don't know enough about the internal workings of processors. All speculation on my behalf.


3 days and not a single issue with the analog unplugged, and still counting

I haven't submitted a ticket yet. Figured I'd wait a day or two more.

Man, what clock does the forum go by. I just posted this around I'm guessing 8:43 PM and it says 1:43 AM. I figured the greatest it could be was 1 hour for Eastern time since I'm in Central.

Your speculation isn't far removed from mine. It's what led me to theorize that since there isn't a true "auto polling" feature similar to what the 1070 and 970 have, it would be appropriate to simply allow the 990 to ignore the very existence of the stereo analog input when a digital input is connected.

The clock's been a bit odd since a software update a while back to help deal with some spamming. I think that it has itself confused between Eastern and Greenwich time somehow.