Bass Management Matrix?

In response to all the questions about the 990's bass management would it be possible for those with the correct information to provide a matrix as to what happens with certain inputs when the different bass management options are selected?

Or if it already exists point out the location of that information. I've read the manual however my reading is not the best when starring at a new piece of gear...

I'm going to work on this - my review had a break-down that was as accurate as I knew to make it, and I'm going to confer with Outlaw to verify its accuracy.

Gonk, I believe your assertion of bass management using Bypass mode with analog input is incorrect.

As discovered by me and a few others, there is no bass management using this input.

That's one of the things I want to get sorted out - I did some testing at the time and had some discussion with Outlaw, but it was six or seven months ago and my current wiring arrangement makes it difficult for me to test.

Would you provide a link to the thread?

I was trying this last night using a CD player connected to the analog CD inputs using bypass mode. The only bass management setting that I could find that didn't engage the subwoofer was front large and subwoofer LFE only.

Perhaps I'm misremembering.

http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/34/t/000413.html

http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/34/t/000391.html

These are just a couple threads discussing the lack of BM on analog inputs.

Just because you got a sub signal does not mean it was managed. The sub signal you got with speakers SMALL was full range and thus not managed. Whether you get a sub signal or not does not define BM. BM is the controlled roll off of the sub output vs frequency.

Thanks for that clarification. I will go read the threads you indicated.

I was wondering whether in their effort to make bass management "simple", the designers have actually made the situation worse. I could swallow the "simple" argument for $500 5.1 systems, but for more expensive separate component equipment perhaps a different approach is warranted.

I was thinking that it would be clearer if either the speaker settings and/or the bass management setting could be configured on a per-input basis. I think this would better accommodate my expectations, and make the situation clearer as to what the 990 is actually doing.

Right now there are implicit rules with respect to the speaker settings, bass management, and which input you currently have selected. This makes it hard to figure out what is happening, and how to configure the 990 to match your wishes.

For example, one way to implement this idea would be to allow subwooofer bass to be configured as managed/fullrange/none on a per-input (eg analog CD, optical DVD, etc) basis.

A more complex alternative would be to allow both the speaker setting (large, small, etc), cross over settings and bass settings.

What do you think?

Quietdragon,

You are right on the money about how bass management should be applied. Other processors apply it in just this type of arrangement, they are notably more expensive though. That is why the 990 was so appealing to me...it is supposed to do it for a fraction of the price. Were it working as planned it would be acceptable for me as well as 95% of other HT/Music people out there.

There are very few "partial remedies" that do NOT produce problems for someone. Having full bass management control over the inputs, even in the analog domain, results in a fully customizable system that lets users tune their components to what suits THEM. Got small satellites or expensive tiny's to match your plasma?...go for it. Want your sub to play with analog sources in two channel mode?...not a problem. "Cheap" systems take that away by forcing users to conform to pre set ideas of crossovers etc.

Are you still working on this?

I know you have a bass management summary , but I think it would be very useful for everyone on this forum if that could be turned into a table showing whether bass output to the subwoofer is managed/fullrange/LFE/none, and if managed, how so (eg which cross overs matter). Some of this information can be extracted from your summary, but I believe a table will show clearly where the uncertainties are.

For example, if the front and center speakers are large, and the subwoofer is LFE-only, what part do the cross overs play? And what if the subwoofer is set to none?

I'm holding off for the moment at Scott's request - he wanted to get Outlaw's official response to the bass management bug-hunt lined up - but I will be putting something together (probably in a tabular form similar to my processor chart).

Sounds like a good thing. Will become Appendix A for the 990 manual folder

Thanks!