990 and other amps

What other amps besides the outlaw are you guys using with the 990 ? Any hits and misses ?

Interesting question. Not surprisingly, a lot of 990\'s seem to end up paired up with Outlaw amps (combo pricing may have something to do with that), but other amps do seem to get mentioned around here. ATI, Parasound, Adcom, and Rotel are probably the most common non-Outlaw amps. There are a number of other brands represented in the speakers/amps thread (see my link above), including Bryston, Odyssey, and Sunfire to name a few, and even at least one person in that thread running Mackie powered monitors. I don't recall hearing of any "problem child" combinations of 990 and amp yet, but will be curious to see what thoughts crop up here.

I had never heard of ATI amps until someone here mentioned that they share production facilities with Outlaw.

I'm soon going to switch over my Maggies to a Lyngdorf SA2175 (formerly TACT Audio) and put the 755 to use on the center/surrounds.

Cheers,

I've got Sunfire (processor too, sorry) on my short list of candidates for "Charlie HT 2.0" in the next 12 months. The Signature 400 seven looks damn good really - 800x7 into 4 ohms. Decent, I doubt clipping would be an issue.

Yike! - it would seem like the power supply is going to impose a limit at some point (manual recommends a single 15A circuit), but it's certainly impressive looking.

I'm still in stereo and using a pair of nOrh Le Amp 2 monoblocks to power my Maggie 1.6QRs. The combination sounds terrific to me but I haven't heard any others so can't compare them.
For the benefit of the curious, you can find out about the company at nOrh.com. It's in Thailand and run by an American expat named Michael Barnes. His monthly newsletter is often fun to read. The Le Amp 2 uses a switching power supply and runs Class A at lower power levels. 200w into 8 ohms and 400 into 4 ohms which is where the Maggies live. Absolutely no hum but they run hot. $300 each including shipping from Thailand. How they compare with the Outlaw 220 would be interesting to find out.

with my 990 i had a pair of m200s running my mains and i upgraded to a anthem statement p2.it was an improvement in the highs and better control of the midbass.on meterial i was fimaliar with i would be able to pick out the anthem over the m200s every time but they were not that far apart.is the p2 worth 4 times a pair of m200s???? hard to say but i have to believe it is because i payed it.if i wasnt into 2 channel music and only used my system for HT the m200s would of done the job nicely.

i use a ATI 1506 with my 990 and is a great match .. tannoy DC's all around .. 5.1 .. very happy .. ATI amps are rock solid .. way better than others ive owned .. carver 505, HK sig 2.1,
newer adcom multi and stereo .. i still have older adcom that are great gfa545 gfa1a etc.. .but their new gear just isnt like the old ..

DOJ .. i'll bet your emo mps-1 would be a great match up as well .. if your emo pre pro ever vanished .. which i'm sure will not after hearing it .. very nice ... have you bought a 2 set of 750's for your rears in your HT room being they are on sale at a unbelievable $$ ..

My original plan was to pair a 990 with the EMO MPS-1. Then the plan changed to an EMO DMC-1/MPS-1 Combo. After trying the DMC-1 and waiting 2 months for the backordered MPS-1, I went back to the 990 and paired it with the 7125 and am extremely pleased with the performance. The short version is that I spent a lot of time researching the MPS-1/990 combo and think that it would be a very solid matchup...

Just my .02

-Dogwizard

I'm not going to mention my age, but I started accumulating hi-fi gear back when Julian Hirsch was writing equipment reviews for what was then called "Hi-Fi and Stereo Review" (now "Sound and Vision"). I'm driving a pair of Bose 901's, Boston Acoustics center channel, side surrounds, and an unpowered B. A. subwoofer with 3 Dynaco Stereo 120's that I built back in the 60's. My equipment spans the ages, right up to the 990, a Sharp front projector, and LG LS-3410A HDTV tuner/hard drive and a Mitsubishi digital VCR. I'd like to hear if anybody out there has still got any older equipment still in active service.

Until a few years ago, I had a mostly tube system based on a Dynaco PAS pre-amp and VTL compact 100 monoblocks feeding into a pair of Dahlquist DQ-20i mains.

Unfortunately, the "fire bottle" amps were just too much of an attractive nuissance for my toddlers (lots of heat + lots of high voltage + occasional power tube flame out = annoyed wife). So I went through a series of "mid-fi" Sony ES gear with an outboard Adcom GFA-5802 amp. A few months ago, I just decided life was too short to spend it using cheesy equipment and mediocre sound so I put together the system you see below. I went with an Outlaw amp/pre-amp as buying more Adcom GFA-5802s + Lexicon processor seemed both expensive and overkill for my child-filled environment.

So back to vintage....I'd love to find a way to continue using the Dahlquists, but I think the woofers are just tired (had them reconed a few years ago, but I think the motors are just too long in the tooth to do the kind of bass that I like without bottoming out). If I could find a source for a suitable replacement woofer, I'd probably set up a separate listening area for 2-channel audio, get some VTL Wotan monoblocks and enjoy my new space heaters. 8-)

One of these days I've got to dig the Dynaco gear out of the attic....I have to say though...I don't really miss the days when I'd have to spend a couple hours a month re-biasing the output tubes on all my amps. 8-)

Cheers,

psyprof1,

I checked the site for the Nohr equipment. It's long on hyperbole and short on specifications. Are you in Thailland? I'd never heard of this company before. Seems a bit odd that a computer manufacturer is also making loudspeakers and amps. It sounds like they are working great with your maggies though. So far, the 755 has been driving mine with nary a whimper.

Cheers,

Ritz,

No, I'm in Santa Barbara. I read a review of a nOrh (note the spelling) speaker in The Absolute Sound a couple of years back, looked them up on the Web, and liked what Barnes seemed to be doing in Thailand and his rather iconoclastic approach to audio. The first Le Amp got good reviews from high end writers in the alternative online press. When he announced Le Amp 2 the idea of a switching power supply intrigued me - no transformer at all. So I decided to try them. There were a couple of problems with the first ones but they exchanged them with no problems and no charge. Apart from a little noise in the first 30 seconds when they're turned on after being off all night, the sound is impeccable. There's an interesting post about them at http://audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?t=18751&sid=7dd37e98cd3ef1f6ad8ef36932140752 which unfortunately says there have been too many problems with them and they're being discontinued, but the writer describes their sound in pretty much the language I'd use. As I said mine work fine and I'm going to hold on to them. But it looks like I'll need another make of monoblock for my center channel when I go HT. My old-but-still-good-enough Adcom GFA535 will do the surround duty.

I also use norh's speakers and monoblocks, the original le Amps. They are driving 2 marble 9.0's and 3 marble 4.0's. There is plenty of power to drive them to deafening levels. Michael started norh as a hobby, to provide jobs for the local craftsmen, and to provide hifi gear at reasonable prices. He started the computer co a few years ago. I for one wish he would devote more time back to the audio side.

John,

What do you think of the VMPS sub? I've been eyeing the "New Larger Subwoofer" since I'm about to free up 2 channels on my 755.

Cheers,

Don't know if it's older, but of an approximately equal vintage are my Dual 1219 turntable and my Allison One speakers. The Dual has been refurbished and the Allisons are just as they first came out of the boxes.

Boy, do I wish I hadn't put the 1219 in a garage sale a few years back! Junior just found that we have a closet full of "things that look like your old laser discs, but they are black and have grooves in them -- and they have killer music on them...gee, Dad, were you a hippie?"

Well, Mike-in-Virginia, the Dyna Stereo 70 that I made back in '62 is still with me but not in use, though every so often I think of putting in one of Van Alstine's mod kits and firing it up again. I wonder how it would sound against the nOrhs - aside from the 12-dbw output level difference, and assuming the 990's output has the impedance to drive it. (Steve, can the 990 drive tube amps?) And the 990's phono input (which is why I bought it) works fine with my AR XA turntable, now 43 years old and running fine, though I mounted a Mayware Formula V unipivot arm on it only 20 years ago. Any other good old stuff out there? Lowther speakers maybe?

Oops - it was Bill B. who first asked about old equipment. Memories - the articles actually about music in High Fidelity magazine; Julian Hirsch's reviews in the Audio League Report; Hartley Boffle speakers, which I never got to hear - the days of yore.

I like them fine. I haven't compared them to any other subs though, they are the only subs I've owned. But IMHO, they blended in nicely with the 9.0's and bring out the lower octaves of music and move plenty of air with movies. I'm using a pair of them as stands for the LF/RF 9.0's.

The New Larger Sub is a monster of a sub, I'm sure you will be pleased with it if you decide to purchase. VMPS's ribbon speakers are a good buy for the money for those looking for ribbon speakers, they may be the next speakers I buy but I will never sell the 9.0's or 4.0's.

John are you enjoying the LE monoblocks? Do you have the 100 watt monos or the 200's? I have been eyeing the 200's the price point is very low. I am also looking at the Nuforce referance 9's.

I'm still running a pair of 40 year old Aztec monitors in my excercise room. The sound's still very pleasing.

I'm running the 100 watt version, the original Le Amp's, and I still enjoy them. I don't feel the need to replace them any time soon.

I'm using a Lexicon CX7 with my 990. Rack space was a concern since the 990 took up so much space. The Lexicon is compact and has balanced inputs. Visually it's probably not the best matchup but it sounds great.

I'm using a Sunfire Signature 5-channel amp with my 990 and it sounds great.

A bryston 6b and 4b sounds very sweet

I have my 990 connected to two Parasound Halo JC-1 mono amps for the front and a Halo A51 for the rest.

Awesome sound is all I can say. My set-up includes:

Outlaw 990 (Pre/Pro)
Two Halo JC-1's (Mono Amps)
Halo A51 (5-channel Amp)
Two Bohlender-Graebener (BG) 520i (Front Speakers)
One BG 220i (Center Speaker)
Two BG X3 (Side Speakers)
Two NHT ? (In-Ceiling Rear Speakers)
HSU VTF-3 Mk 2 (Subwoofer)
Sony SCD-XA9000ES (SACD Player)
Denon DVD-2200 (Video Source)
Monster Cable AVS-2000 (Regulated Power Supply)
Monster Cable HTPS-7000 (AC Filter)
Sony 60" LCD Projection HD
JVC DVR-921 (HD DVR)
Various High End interconnects and speaker wires

I have a seperate analog set-up in another room that I enjuoy as well.

I'm thinking of pairing the 990 with the Emotiva MPS-1 . I like what I've read about this Pre/Pro and think it will be a great match .

I use 7 IRD 100MB'S. They power Paradigm Studio 60's,CC,20's and studio ADP's. They were used with a 950 and now a 990.

Sherbourn 5/1500A (not the most recent model). Not prohibitively expensive - has balanced inputs - has plenty of sack to push what the 990 feeds it. It's a monoblock design so it's like 5 separate amps in the same chassis.

I got it with my B&K Ref31 but so far it sounds even better with the 990.

Fantastic match - I'd highly recommend it. If you can find an older 5/1500A that works. The latest model is the 5/5210A which you can actually add the extra two channels later to make it a full 7 channel amp.

I think you'd really enjoy the 990, DOJ - and you've already had experience with the MPS-1.

I have the 990 paired with an ATI 2005. I was waiting for the 7500 and I was pretty sure after talking to Outlaw that it was going to be built by ATI. I got a very good deal on the ATI 2005 just two days before the 7500 showed up on the website. I really like the 990/2005 combo. No regrets here. After the announcement and a one-to-one comparison between the spec sheets you could tell the 7500 was the cousin of the ATI 2005. I feel like I'm still in the Outlaw family with the 2005. I tried five 2200 monoblocks, but for several reasons sent them back. Outlaw provided great customer service.

AndrewS: I looked for a Sherbourn 5/1500A for a few months but none showed up on e-bay or Audiogon. Five mono-blocks in a single box is a pretty cool concept. It would be interesting to do an A-B test on the 7500 vs. the 5/1500A.

DOJ, I agree with Gonk; you'd like the 990.

Thanks gonk and Avfan . I think I will call on Monday and order a new 990 .

Do you guys use balanced cables ? And do you use the ones from this sight ? If so how do you feel about the quality ?

Thanks, Kurt

DOJ,

Let us know if you get the 990. It works well for me!

I use Outlaw balanced cables and they are well made. Just one caution: the balanced cables are pretty stiff. The 0.5 meter ones were not long enough so I went with the 1.2 meter ones. Now I have cable length I don't need taking up space behind my equipment cabinet. No big deal, though. Enjoy!

None of my amps have balanced inputs, so my choice was obvious. I've got a fair assortment of Outlaw cables, though, and they are all very well made. The Outlaw balanced cables are of the same quality, and from what I've seen they are more affordable than most of the alternatives - if I were going to get balanced cables, I'd get the PCB's.

AVFan,

I agree with you that the 2005 seems to share a number of things with the 7500. It's hard to sort out exactly what the relationship is between ATI and Outlaw with any degree of certainty, though they do seem to share key personnel and production facilities.

If I had to guess, I'd say that ATI invested quite a lot in their production facility, but they didn't sell enough volume to amortize that cost in a reasonable time frame. The solution may have been to create a secondary "value" brand using the same parts, the same plant, the same personnel, and have different costmetics for the different brands, even though the internals are similar/(or possibly even the same). They had to rebrand the "value brand" so as not to alienate their existing dealer network who are selling the similar ATI gear at substantially higher price points. Outlaw doesn't show internal pics of the new 7500/7700 internals, so it's hard to say for sure unless someone wants to open up their 7500/7700 and post the pics.

Cheers,

Ritz,

I have found that many HT brands offer similar, if not the same, products as their competitors. For example the Outlaw 950 was rebadged by two (Sherbourn and ??) other companies and the 990 shares so much with the Sherwood. When researching plasma TVs three years ago, the Hitachi I bought had the same glass as Sony. Outlaw and ATI's relationship may very well be as you have surmised.

This caused me to look a little deeper into the products I found interesting. Was there an alternative to a piece of gear that would cost less but provide identical or similar features? What other factors should I consider (e.g customer service, warranty,)? I chose Outlaw for their products, customer service and 30 day return policy. I like my 990 and their customer service has been very good, plus I did take advantage of the 30-day return policy. Outlaw has more than met my expectations.

Back to this thread...I'm comfortable that Outlaw, if asked, would say that the 2005 is a good match for the 990 given the similarities with the 7500.

Its all good, now back to the movie...

My 990 just arrived yesterday. I'll be driving 7 channels of Krell, recently purchased used on AudiogoN -- KAV-250a for R/L, KAV-500 for the others.

This is a step up to separates from a 9 year old Denon AVR-5600/Definitive Tech system. Until the 990 came I was driving the Krells with the pre-outs on the Denon, so I'll be able to compare just the Denon/990 swap.

Let us know how they compare. Also, are you still running DT's or do you have different speakers?

Magnepan 3.6's for L/R, waiting on Maggie CC4 release for center (took out the Def Tech CC as it was just too different in timbre and am using a phantom center at the moment). Still have the DT surrounds, which didn't seem like too much of a mismatch using the Denon, but the surrounds get so much more action with the 990 that I can't stand listening to crystal in front with mud from the sides. I'm going to have to accelerate the purchase of MC1's to replace them, which I wasn't planning to do until after I move in April due to wall mounting considerations.

So with the speaker situation clouding the surround evaluation, the only meaningful comparison I can make is for stereo and the concise review is "awesome". I wasn't expecting much more from the 990 vs. the Denon in stereo but the difference is readily apparent, for both SACD/analog in bypass mode and for CD/optical in upsample mode. I guess that says that for SACD the Denon digital path must have been mucking up the signal, as the 990 in bypass isn't doing anything much to it, except maybe simple amplification.

For surround, even though I can't do a meaningful comparison of sound quality, the 990 is certainly sending more content to the surrounds than was the Denon (both in DD 5.1 mode), even though both were calibrated for equal SPL level using the Denon and 990 manual calibration modes.

Hi DOJ,

Wow - I think this is my first post here. Let us know how you like the 990 with the MPS-1. If I were going to buy new electronics today, that's what I'd do. I think getting a top notch amp is important, and I havent heard a discouraging word about the MPS-1. I want the pre/pro to sound good as a minimum, which the Emo UL does, but for another few hundred the 990 has a great feature set. With that, I dont think I'd need to spend the extra cash on the big dog pre/pro.

I use a Cinenova Grande 5 Amp with my 990
Nice Amp not many people have heard of them.


CineNova Grande Five (5)

Number of channels:
Five discrete monaural blocks.

Power rating per channel:
(8-ohm load), all channels driven: 300 watts.
(4-ohm load), all channels driven: 600 watts.
(2-ohm load), all channels driven: 1000 watts.
Freq. Response (@1 W w/ ±0.1dB: 20 Hz to 20 kHz.

Channel separation: greater than 95 dB.

Max. input voltage: 1.9 volts.

Input impedance: 27,000 ohms.

Total harmonic distortion -THD:
1 kHz, 8-ohm load: 0.001%.
20 kHz, 8-ohm load: 0.003%.
20 kHz, 4-ohm load: 0.006%.
1 kHz, 2-ohm load: 0.005%.
20 kHz, 2-ohm load: 0.006%.

Signal to noise ratio:
@ 1 kHz, 112 dB.
@ 5 kHz, 111 dB.
@ 10 kHz, 110 dB.

High-pass / low pass variable filter,
range 20 Hz to 5 kHz (one/ channel).

High-pass/Full range/Low pass
operation via 3-way switches (one switch per channel).

Dimensions: 9.25" x 18" x 21" (H x W x D).

Gross Weight : 141 lbs.


Scott

I have an Adcom GFA-770 (200w X7) paired with the 990 and I'm very happy with it. It does require a 20 amp circuit, which wasn't no problem for me, just replaced the wall outlet as I was already wired for 20 Amps.

One thing I'm sure you've been keeping in mind is how the sensitivity of your speakers, ohm and power rating of your amp. More power is a good thing as long as it's clean.

Good Luck

My 990 is paired with a NAD T973 (7X140W) driving a system of mostly Axiom speakers (6.1 setup with two center channels). I am very happy with the sound/setup. In my case the balanced connection to the subwoofer was probably worth the price of the 990 in itself for the noise and hum it eliminated.
The T973 seems to be a little out of favor because it has three fans that are fairly loud, but that is good for me because the noise is behind a wall and inaudible (all of my equipment that doesn't need to be exposed is behind a wall).

My gear:

Associated Audio / Video gear feeding the 990, with the 990's outputs feeding (via its balanced sends for all):

(3) DB Systems DB-6M (monaural) for front, center, and right channels (modified by DB Systems to include differential XLR input, additional power supply capacitance etc). Great amps...had some of these since 1980, others more recently obtained via eBay. The folks at DB Systems remind me of the Outlaws in terms of their customer service - they'll modify new, modify old...great folks to deal with.

(1) DB Systems DB-6 (two-channel) for surrounds (modified by DB Systems to include two differential XLR inputs).

(1) Velodyne F1200 servo sub (has balanced to single-ended (RCA) conversion box (Audio Control BLR-10) attached to subwoofer back). Balanced send provided by the 990's balanced subwoofer output.

Speakers are B&W Matrix 805's (not Nautilus) all around (4) with HTM centre channel (1).

All in all, I'm pretty pleased.

Mark