New Version of HDMI, 1.2, is out!

SUNNYVALE, Calif., August 23, 2005 - HDMI Licensing LLC, the agent responsible for licensing the High-Definition Multimedia Interface™ (HDMI™) specification, today announced the availability of the latest revision of the HDMI specification, version 1.2. HDMI 1.2 adds a number of important features that contribute to the ongoing evolution of this important standard for secure audio and video transmission. Additionally, HDMI Licensing, LLC is proud to announce that more than 250 vendors worldwide have adopted HDMI with over 470 different HDMI-enabled products having been announced.

HDMI has emerged as the de facto digital interface standard for HDTV and the consumer electronics market. By delivering crystal-clear, all-digital audio and video quality via a single cable, HDMI dramatically simplifies cabling and helps provide consumers with the highest-quality home theater experience.

The HDMI 1.2 specification also adds features and capabilities that increase HDMI's appeal for use in both the CE and PC industries. Specifically, the features and modifications for HDMI 1.2 include:

Support for One Bit Audio format, such as SuperAudio CD's DSD (Direct Stream Digital)
Changes to offer better support for current and future PCs with HDMI outputs, including:
Availability of the widely-used HDMI Type A connector for PC sources and displays with full support for PC video formats
Ability for PC sources to use their native RGB color-space while retaining the option to support the YCbCr CE color-space
Requirement for HDMI 1.2 and later displays to support future low-voltage (i.e., AC-coupled) sources, such as those based on PCI Express I/O technology
"HDMI 1.2 has several changes to better support the PC industry, including a minor modification to the electrical specification to ensure compatibility of current and future HDMI receivers with a low voltage, AC coupled transmitter (for example, a transmitter in an integrated graphics chip)," said Leslie Chard, President of HDMI Licensing, LLC. "The HDMI Founders also intend to define additional HDMI electrical and connector options that would allow PC vendors to more easily develop HDMI-compatible products."

Yeah I know the 990 does not have HDMI only DVI, and I wish it did. The HDMI 1.1 is the only you really want if HDMI is important to you since it supports SACD. It was probably the smart thing for the Outlaws not to included until 1.1 and 1.2 standards are intergrated. Pesonally I am holding off on the 990 till it does support HDMI, at least ver. 1.1 and waiting for the next version of amps that have balanced inputs to match those now coming out of the 990. When that happens I am gonna be first in line with my check book. Below is a little more on HDMI.

About HDMI
Becoming An Adopter
HDMI Specification
Compliance Test Specification

About HDMI

What is HDMI?
HDMI (High-Definition Multimedia Interface) is the first and only industry-supported, uncompressed, all-digital audio/video interface. HDMI provides an interface between any audio/video source, such as a set-top box, DVD player, or A/V receiver and an audio and/or video monitor, such as a digital television (DTV), over a single cable.

HDMI supports standard, enhanced, or high-definition video, plus multi-channel digital audio on a single cable. It transmits all ATSC HDTV standards and supports 8-channel digital audio, with bandwidth to spare to accommodate future enhancements and requirements.

Who supports HDMI?
The HDMI Founders include leading consumer electronics manufacturers Hitachi , Matsushita Electric Industrial (Panasonic), Philips, Sony, Thomson (RCA), Toshiba, and Silicon Image. Digital Content Protection, LLC (a subsidiary of Intel) is providing High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP) for HDMI. In addition, HDMI has the support of major motion picture producers Fox, Universal, Warner Bros. and Disney, and system operators DirecTV, EchoStar (Dish Network) as well as CableLabs.

What companies are making HDMI-enabled products?
Please refer to the list of HDMI Adopters and Test Equipment Makers.

How do consumers benefit from HDMI?
The new HDMI digital interconnect provides:

Superior, uncompressed digital video and audio quality
A simple, single cable and user-friendly connector that replaces the maze of cabling behind the entertainment center
Integrated remote control
A popular interface enabling the transmission of high-definition content. HDMI opens the floodgate of digital content from major motion picture producers

What is the life expectancy of HDMI?
HDTV uses less than 1/2 of HDMI's available 5 Gbps bandwidth. With capacity to spare, HDMI can incorporate new technology advancements and capabilities long into the foreseeable future.

What are the advantages of HDMI over existing analog interfaces such as composite, S-Video and component video?


Quality: HDMI transfers uncompressed digital audio and video for the highest, crispest image quality.
All-Digital: HDMI ensures an all-digital rendering of video without the losses associated with analog interfaces and their unnecessary digital-to-analog conversions.
Low-cost: HDMI provides the quality and functionality of a digital interface while also supporting uncompressed video formats in a simple, cost-effective manner.
Audio: HDMI supports multiple audio formats, from standard stereo to multi-channel surround-sound.
Ease-of-use: HDMI combines video and multi-channel audio into a single cable, eliminating the cost, complexity, and confusion of multiple cables currently used in A/V systems.
Intelligence: HDMI supports two-way communication between the video source (such as a DVD player) and the DTV, enabling new functionality.

Is HDMI backward-compatible with DVI (Digital Visual Interface)?
Yes, HDMI is fully backward-compatible with DVI using the CEA-861 profile for DTVs. HDMI DTVs will display video received from existing DVI-equipped products, and DVI-equipped TVs will display video from HDMI sources.

Will current HD TVs and set-top boxes using DVI-HDTV be compatible with HDMI devices?
Yes. Currently there are TVs with DVI-HDTV inputs available from a wide variety of manufacturers. These devices will be compatible with future HDMI-equipped products.

What types of video does HDMI support?
HDMI has the capacity to support existing high-definition video formats (720p, 1080i, and even 1080p). It also has the flexibility to support enhanced definition formats such as 480p, as well as standard definition formats such as NTSC or PAL.

Does HDMI support Dolby 5.1 audio and high-resolution audio formats? Yes. From the start, HDMI was defined to carry 8-channels, of 192kHz, 24-bit uncompressed audio, which exceeds all current consumer media formats. In addition, HDMI can carry any flavor of compressed audio format such as Dolby or DTS. (Such compressed formats are the only multi-channel or high-resolution audio formats that can be carried across the older S/PDIF or AES/EBU interfaces.) The fact that the vast majority of HDMI products shipped are two-channel TVs that don’t support more than two-channel audio doesn’t make this any less the case. Most existing HDMI sources can output any compressed stream, and the newer sources can output uncompressed 6-channel, 96kHz audio from a DVD-Audio disk. There are several A/V receivers on the market that can accept and process the 6- or 8-channel audio from HDMI and more are expected to be available shortly.

Will HDMI support SACD?
The HDMI Founders designed the HDMI specification to be dynamic. HDMI has plenty of extra bandwidth to accommodate future audio and video requirements, and the Founders are committed to evaluating and updating the specification to help accommodate new audio and video formats that may be introduced in the foreseeable future. As an example, since the introduction of the initial HDMI 1.0 specification, the HDMI 1.1 specification supporting DVD-Audio has already been introduced. The HDMI Founders do not comment on future revisions of the spec, however there is no technical reason why HDMI could not support SACD.

Sorry for talking to myself but... I did make an error as stated above ver 1.1 supports DVD-Audio which is not exactly SACD.
What do you guys think about HDMI? I think it is just too cool that one cable can replace 11 others(8 audio channels and three componet vid cables), and it is all digital!!!

And you felt the need to post all this here because......????

I don't see any benefit at all to HDMI other than the elimination of an audio cable. I'll happily use my standard DVI connection plus TOSlink for audio.

Cheers,

I felt the need because DVI HMDI are at the leading edge and I thought it was rather interesting, sorry if I wasted your time Ritz. You know forums are to express an opinion. Someone out there may be wondering about why the 990 does not have HDMI or what HDMI meant in the first place. Next time before I post I will be sure to see if it meets with your approval.

This is an interesting news item. HDMI will almost inevitably be a significant standard in another year or three (unless something unexpected happens), because it's going to be the best interface for audio on HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. It is not the first digital audio connection to support DVD-Audio and SACD (both Firewire and Denon's proprietary link already do both), but it is somewhat better situated to see widespread adoption.

What I'm curious about is the hardware requirements associated with going from HDMI 1.1 to HDMI 1.2. Based on this quote from Kosman's original post -

I would suspect that HDMI 1.1 devices will not be truly hardware compatible with HDMI 1.2. It seems odd also that there is no mention of HD-DVD or Blu-Ray in this announcement, since those are the two that really give HDMI's audio side some long-term value. (Not to say that support for SACD and DVD-Audio doesn't have value, but both formats have been languishing for years now and there's no sign of that changing any time soon.)

Thanks for the interest Gonk.
Check out this link!
http://www.hdforindies.com/2005/08/mikes-latest-thoughts-hollywoods-folly

Here is a small peice of it:

"The HD Analog Shutout - no HD on your HDTV

It looks like the Hollywood studios are requiring use of an HDMI connector with HDCP (hardware device copy protection) for high definition video content on next generation formats, HD DVD and Blu Ray. Toshiba's HD DVD has already been shown with HDMI and stated definitively that the component analog outputs will work in standard definition ONLY, even though there is no TECHNICAL reason to prevent them from working in high definition. Sony, the primary backer of the competing Blu Ray format, also owns movie studios, so it's unlikely that they wouldn't require HDMI with HDCP as well. So this means that only newer sets with HDMI will be viable for watching high definition content. For all those who've already plunked down for HDTVs that lack this HDMI with HDCP, they are SOL. And frankly, think about it - who are the folks most likely to want to adopt high def DVDs? Probably those early adopter types who bought an HDTV to watch their DVDs a few years ago, prior to the introduction of this HDCP stuff.

So what does this mean? Imagine you spent $2000-$5000 on an HDTV a couple of years ago. You're into all this new tech, you love it. So HD DVD and Blu Ray discs actually ship, and you plunk down $500-$1000 for one of the first players (assuming you're OK buying into one of two competing standards) and you take it home and pop it in your player. Woops, your set lacks HDMI with HDCP, you only have HD component analog connections. Even though they work with all of your other high definition gear, the player will quietly downsample your HD signal to standard definition. You watch the movie, and frankly, it doesn't look any better than your regular DVDs that play on your kids' $50 player. Box it up and return it, you don't think it's worth it. You could be watching a regular DVD on a $50 player on a $300-$800 TV and it would look pretty much just as good.

It was a common supposition for a few years that buying a set that LACKED this and other digital shutouts (like hardware honoring the broadcast flag) would be protection against the onerous security measures coming. Looks like this is wrong, to the point that folks who have been early adopters will be punished."

For Ritz,
The previouis post is why anyone with a home theater system should be concerned about HDMI!

I'm not overly concerned about HDMI in and of itself (at least until the audio side reaches a truly final form, which may or may not be HDMI 1.2), but I have been keeping track of it as it has grown. I'm more concerned about the mess that is the HD disc format war, a war that HDMI is caught up in. As Kosman's link points out, it seem almost inevitable that both competing formats will "plug the analog hole" and restrict component video output to 480i or 480p (leaving it at best comparable to a good progressive scan DVD player for the millions of HDTV owners who lack a DVI or HDMI input) - HD-DVD has already gone on record as restricting component video output to 480i, and while I haven't seen Blu-Ray do the same I will be surprised if they do anything different.

Kos:

While the formal adoption of the HDMI format is a step forward, to some ways it helps underscore the very reason why the Outlaws may have done the right thing in not putting HDMI in the 990.

Why? Becuase what is NOT stated in any of the press announcements is the point hinted to by Gonk that HDMI 1.1 products, while compatible with 1.2, will not offer the benefits of 1.2. The reason for this has to do with the Receive (Rx) and Transmit (Tx) chips that you need to have in a fully HDMI compatible product in order to not only switch HDMI sources, but also to "pick off" the audio streams so that they may be decoded and/or processed. ALmost all of the chips available now, particularly those that would have had to have been available when the Outlaws and their OEM must have had to start planning the 990 -- let's call that bout a year ago -- cannot be upgraded for a "higher" HDMI level.

HDMI sources admit that this will be 100% certain when HDMI 1.1/1.2 products look look to handle the 1.3 (or whatever) spec when it comes out a year from now or so.

Imagine if the 990 DID have HDMI and now it was unable to handle 1.2/ Would you be upset? It seems that since the main issue is to provide a link for digital video, having DVI serves the purpose just fine, since the next change to the video side of the HDMI spec won't come for another 12 to 18 months.

Thus, you can buy a 990 now, have full video compatability with HDMI sources. OK, so you have to run a audio cables, but is that the end of the world?

It's a choice that you have to make: At what point are you content to buy and enhoy something today, or wait, wait, wait since no matter what you buy, there is at least one part of it that might have a different take from newer products in a month.

I'm going to avoid HDMI as long as there is an alternative that doesn't box me into some bogus copy protection scheme....cuz that's what it's really about, not making device connections less complex.

Cheers,

Lots of good disscussion here. I'd like to make one point in regards to HDMI audio support on the new HD format DVD players. It is very possible and several insiders have hinted that the present 1.1 HDMI interface will be handle the new hi-res audio formats as it will be decoded by the first generation of players themselves. HDMI already supports multiple channels of Hi-Res PCM data. This is similar to how the first DVD players decoded audio. The players will do it instead of your Pre/Pro.

What about those of us who don't WANT our players to decode anything and would prefer to feed bits to a higher end outboard DAC? That's my current beef with SACD/DVD-A.

Cheers,

Ritz I believe you mean HDCP not HDMI as the "bogus copy protection scheme". Ignore it if you want but HDMI is a better interface then component. Why would you want to take digital sourced data (DVD, satellite, cable ect) and go through an analog stage only to have your display device convert it back to digital?

I don't like HDCP one bit but I think in order for the studios to release near bit perfect high resolution media it is not unreasonable to expect them to require encryption. What I take issue with is the shutting down or down rezing of the non-digital (component)outputs. You would need expensive equipment to copy a hi-rez analog signal and even if you had access to such gear it would not be an identical copy of the original.

Umm..thats exactly what HDMI gives you. ?????
Even in the senario above, HD-DVD outputting PCM, you would still be using your Pre/Pro DACs but not it's processor for decoding. For DVD-A and SACD over HDMI you would be using everything in your Pre/Pro.

I'm not arguing that HDMI isn't better than component....of course it is! However, it's not "better" than DVI. DVI is already here, already standardised, and it works. I see absolutely no reason to "upgrade" to HDMI other than the removal of an additional audio cable(s).

And I believe you're right about me being confused with HDCP. Studios have been whining about this issue every single time technology has introduced more advanced recording meiums. They whined about the cassette, the VCR, the CD-R, DVR-R, etc. The last time I checked, I haven't seen this massive decline in studio profits as recording media and technologies have evolved to make it easier to create high quality copies of their content. What I HAVE seen is a consolidation of the industry that has resulted in fewer choices for consumers in terms of variety of content and monopolist pricing in both the sales of content and its performance in cinemas/concert halls. But I digress.....

Ritz - I'm a little confused by what you are wishing for here, other then ranting about the big studios, which btw I'm not totally unsympathetic to your point of view.

How are you planning on using DVI for audio? I thought you were discouraged that you couldn't use your DACs with it, and yet this is exactly what HDMI gives you the ability to do. It is much more then just being able to get rid of some extra cables.

Also HDMI has the ability to carry more color space data then DVI if I’m not mistaken, who knows if this will be exploited in the future though.

He's not planning to use DVI for audio - that's why he said "I see absolutely no reason to "upgrade" to HDMI other than the removal of an additional audio cable(s)." He's doing what basically we all are (whether by choice or under duress) - using separate signal paths for audio and video.

Gonk hit the nail on the head. HDMI offers me nothing that I don't already have. So what's the point?

And sorry about the rant concerning the studios. If you knew what I did for a living, you'd probably be surprised that I take this point of view. 8-)

Cheers,

Sorry to say, in the future, 1080p will only be transmitted on HDMI interfaces. The studious will have their way and the chip manufacturers are building silicon to this effect.

As the LCD and DLP2 sets all start moving to 1080p native resolution, in 2-3 years, the HDMI 1.2 spec will be the interconnector of choice pushed by the OEM's. Just my take on it.

alphanstein:

Acutally, even HDMI 1.2 doesn't have what it takes to do 1080p/60. For that you'll need the 246 Mb/s promised by the HDMI crowd for the 1.3 spec -- but that's at least 12 to probably something along the lines of 18 or 24 months away from practical application.

Of course, dual-link DVI can do that, but most consumer displays can't deal with that anyway...

I was referring to this post maybe I misinterpreted what you were saying?

Obie,

It was in repsonse to:

"It is very possible and several insiders have hinted that the present 1.1 HDMI interface will be handle the new hi-res audio formats as it will be decoded by the first generation of players themselves. HDMI already supports multiple channels of Hi-Res PCM data. This is similar to how the first DVD players decoded audio. The players will do it instead of your Pre/Pro."

I don't think we are contesting the fact that HDMI will inevitably become the standard of choice, but Ritz's comment about not needing HDMI relates to the fact that he (like me) is already using DVI at the display and can simply continue to use the existing audio connections. Since HDMI and DVI are compatible for video, we have this confusing mess of options, alternate configurations, and assorted craziness. Eventually those of us with DVI will have to migrate to HDMI, but the most compelling need will relate to the HD disc formats (the formats best capable of making use of the new audio formats) - and that opens up a whole separate can of worms, since many of us are wary of buying into either side of a format war too early.

Podboy, I'm curious about your comment about HDMI not supporting 1080p - especially since I came across the following entry in the HDMI FAQ over the weekend:
Is there something you've read that the FAQ isn't mentioning?

Gonk:

The present HDMI standards can support 1080/24p, but not the considerably greater bandwidth required for 1080/60p.

PB

Ah-ha, that makes sense. Of course, it also leads to the question of what sources will be outputting 1080/60p. Do HD-DVD or Blu-Ray support it?

Probably not and probably not. Simlar issue: you'd need some SERIOUS compression or have to really stretch the disc's capacity.

Doesn't really matter, since the 1080P infrastructure is only just being developed AND when you think about it, film is only 24p anyway, so upconverting it to 1080/60p makes no sense. This will only be a real factor when there are thing shot in video at 60p. Some of the new cameras being purchased by CBS for Television City in Hollywood are 60P, but that's just for the future -- none of the rest of the infrastructure there is 60p.

The bottom line is that there is really no compelling reason to "upgrade" to HDMI if you've currently got a working DVI setup. I'm certainly not going to upgrade every 12-18 months as the "HDMI Licensing" people decide they need to excrete another "dot 1" increment to their current standard. I applaud the Outlaw team for sticking to a known (non-moving) standard for the 990.

The 1080p thing is really a strawman for the forseable future since there is zero content to consume in that format today and I suspect there will be vanishingly little even in a couple of years. Heck, you can't even find a consumer level display that will do it yet (though some have been announced) that's actually for sale.

Ritz:

The 1080p displays are just starting to hit from Mitsu and others, though the DLP based products use a "wobulation" to achieve 1080p. To my way of thinking, that is fine, but not "real" 1080p. The D-ILA and SXRD projectors, as well as some of the larger size direct-view LCD panels from Sharp and others are "true" 1080p.

However, I do agree with you that program material will be sparse, and besides, there is no way to deliver it via OTA or any other current conventional method without everyone having to adopt a different (or new) compression scheme such as replacing MPEG-2 with JPEG 2000 or a stepped up MPEG-4 AVC.

Yep, over the air 1080p is out of the question using mpeg-2. That's like trying to squeeze Roseanne Barr into Kate Moss' thong. Both end up being a real eyesore. 8-) Too much data to squeeze into too little bandwidth over too short a period of time (for real time delivery). Mpeg-4 could definitely get the job done though it would require a lot more processing grunt on the receiving end.

Cheers,

I guess unlike most, my main attraction to HDMI up until now has been for the Hi-Rez M/C audio, As others have said DVI is fine for present day video. I've been waiting on Firewire for what seems forever and finally have given up on it ever showing up in a decent Pre/Pro. I want to be able to use my fancy DACs and bass management in whatever Pre/Pro I end up with. I thought that was your position too Ritz but the converstion just went around in circles and I'm still not sure if we were agreeing or disagreeing.

Oh and for the record I agree Outlaw made the right choice on shipping a DVI unit vs waiting another year or two for a decent HDMI implementation. I'm hopeful the big name Pre/Pro guys will show some HDMI prototypes at CEDIA in the next week or two. Maybe by next year this time we will have some viable HDMI solutions available.

Ritz:

You hinted that you had some association with "The Biz". Have you seen any decent demonstrations of JPEG 2000, which is being touted as a compresssion scheme for digital cinema?

I tend to agree the early adopters may resist HDMI. I bought an HDTV b4 most & have component in as the only way in at 1080 besides the TV's internal HDTV tuner. I'm still very happy with the display quality & would not buy a new TV just to watch blu-ray. So that leaves this early adopter out without a component out option on the new HD-DVD's. If people like me don't buy, then it will fall flat. With regard to copy protection, not sure what their problem is, except they are stupid. Component 1080i or p would be very hard for the average consumer to record. BUT, DVD-John will likely break HDMI weeks after release and because PC's will have interfaces that support HDMI, people will be recording HDMI. Fools.

Obie,

You can have multichannel hi resolution audio today (and long before today) using DVI and plain old coax or TOSlink for audio. I don't really consider DVD-A/SACD to be high resolution because you normally have some cheesy "lowest bidder" parts doing the D/A conversion in the player rather than having a higher end outboard DAC. The "promise" of HDMI, if you can call it that, is being able to push the bits in the digital domain from the transport to the DAC without that extra D/A--A/D conversion process in the middle. Unfortunately, that convenience is going to come at the expense of all the annoying copy protection crap that I was moaning about earlier. So I'd prefer to keep the status quo. DVI + coax/TOSlink is working wonderfully for me. I can't imagine even wanting to "upgrade" for quite some time since there isn't any source material out there that my current setup can't handle. When I can wander down to the neighborhood Blockbuster video and get 1080p content, maybe I'll consider it. Until then, I consider the latest HDMI spec to be much ado about nothing.

Cheers,

Pod,

Yup, I'm in the content business, but I haven't had any personal exposure to jpeg 2000. I deal mainly with H.264/mpeg-4/mpeg-2.

Cheers,

I think stabie has touched on the underlying problem with both HD optical disc formats. They are abandoning the early adopters like stabie by crippling the component video output. On top of this, they are confusing the typical consumer with two competing formats that only offer a benefit over DVD if you have a new HDTV and a surround sound setup (preferably an even newer one that will support Dolby Digital Plus and DTS-HD). It's eerily reminscent of DVD-Audio and SACD - both offered benefits over CD if you had the receiver/processor and speakers to truly make use of them, and the competition between the has pretty much crippled both formats.

Ritz – I’ve got to admit you make my head spin trying to follow your logic. Your very reason for being anti SACD or DVD-A is the very reason I'm so interested in HDMI audio. That being a broadband digital interface into my Pre/Pro so I can use its DACs and processing without going through an extra D/A conversion. HDMI solves this problem and I don’t understand why the copy protection is such an issue in this case. It is not like the HDCP is degrading the signal, as it should be totally transparent. This is not like some of the really nasty analog video forms of CP we have endured for years. If you want to throw your self on the HDCP sword go right ahead but IMHO you will be missing out.

I’m sorry but the status quo of stereo PCM at 16/44, or lousy Dolby/DTS Multi-Channel is not Hi-rez. S/PDIF (coax /TOSLINK) just does not have the bandwidth to do what I would qualify as Hi-Rez audio. I’ve invested enough in SACDs to know that even a cheap player with “lowest bidder” parts can sound pretty impressive using the analog outputs. I can only imagine how good it would be if I could just use that cheap player as a transport and do all the processing and D/A in my Pre/Pro where I can spend more and use it for all my sources. Even if the new HD versions of Dolby and DTS are decoded in the player HDMI will still allow you to use, no, actually require you to use external DACs. I just don’t see the downside here.

Is your issue with HDCP just based on fair usage? As far as copy protection schemes go HDCP is fairly unobtrusive when it comes to audio. I guess what I’m saying is if the studios are willing to give me a quality product that is significantly better then what is out I will give up some degree of fair usage. To be honest I’d be content with HDMI 1.2 as it does pretty much everything I would want. If they want to add 1080P at 60fps let them but I’ll probably still be using my analog CRT for another 20 years.

"To be honest I’d be content with HDMI 1.2 as it does pretty much everything I would want. If they want to add 1080P at 60fps let them but I’ll probably still be using my analog CRT for another 20 years."

Given that level of frugality, I'm somewhat surprised that you are embracing a spec that will effectively force you to buy all new equipment from the source to the display. Again, as I mentioned above, I don't feel this "upgrade" will offer me anything I don't already have with the exception of a potential reduction in cabling clutter.

And yes, I've got major fair use issues with copy protection. It almost never works, causes a great deal of consumer confusion, and results in people like you and I being boxed into buying new equipment that's really not necessary in order to legally consume the content.

Best regards,

Ritz - I think you are mistaking my strong desire to keep my ceiling hanging 3 eyed monster of an analog projector for frugality. It is anything but cheap. If you want to hear me rant about HDCP ask me how I got my HDMI cable box to work with my projector. My discussion of HDCP in this thread has been limited to audio, hence the statement 1.2 offers pretty much everything I need. When it comes to video and HDCP and its repercussions on analog my love of HDCP is at about the same level as yours, maybe even less so

I don't mind upgrading when I think a technology is a worthwhile investment, it is part of the hobby. I think from an audio perspective HDMI provides a very good improvement in technology. I notice you have a jitter buster in your equipment list, in theory HDMI or Firewire should be able to all but eliminate jitter. Had Firewire ever caught on in the audio world I would have been perfectly content to have just DVI for video, but Firewire seems to be going nowhere in the Pre/Pro world.

Another aspect of your logic I don’t understand is your dislike of HDMI seems to be based solely on your mistrust of HDCP. Yet HDCP is still present on DVI. At least it is on the two DVI interfaces I have here. How do you reconcile this with your strong anti HDMI bias? I hope you don’t think I’m picking on you as I really do respect your opinion, even though I don’t necessarily agree with all of it.

Hello Gentleman and Ladies,

Often times, with discussions like these, tempers rise and quality conversation is lost. This thread is a perfect example of why the Outlaw Saloon is such a special forum. Thank you to all involved for keeping the debate so enjoyable to follow after a few bumps out of the gate!

Best,

Scott

Have tempers risen? I was rather enjoying the conversation.

Best regards,

No, quite the contrary. I was expressing my appreciation for how well opinions and preferences were presented throughout the thread!

Ahhh.

:-)

HDMI:

Don't want it.
Don't need it.
Got it anyway.
Now I gotta deal with it.


The Outlaws' decision to omit HDMI switching from the 990 is looking wiser every day. Just my opinion.

I know I've been enjoying the discussion and certainly haven't been upset. When you quit listening to other people's opinion you quit learning. Ritz any further discussion regarding my previous post?

Tekdredger - In a way Outlaw did not omit HDMI switching since it is essentially functionally equivalent to the DVI switching which they did include.

That's why I think their design decision (DVI vs HDMI) was a wise one.

I certianly have enjoyed this as well, and learned alot as well! I may have even made some new friends as well. I had no idea what I started! I am living in an apartment and will be moving in to a house next year. At that time I will be buying a 50ish HDTV, a pre/pro, and an amp. After all this discussion I see I can live with DVI but I do hope HDMI 1.2 is out and that somehow the boys at Outlaw have have worked it in to their product line. If not the 990/770 is still tough to beat!

check this out.Beta Max vs VHS replay.New format same game.
www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/unifiedhighdefinitionDVD.php

A Standard that's called DVI
Was bettered by HDMI
As HDMI changes
The sound rearranges
But Outlaws aren't left high and dry.

lol!!

Good one Mike.

Lonster