Is anyone else waiting for a matching amp before getting the 990?

I have been spending way too much time at work reading here on the 990. Gonk and Jeff's review on AV123 has me sold.

My biggest problem is that the current selection of outlaw amps don't match. I am usually not a petty person but this is something that is going to bug me. Is anyone else in the same boat?

At this point I am even considering buying a diffent brand amp, something that looks simular. Or I may just wait till the new amp is out.

I work nights and will probably call outlaw on my days off to try and get some info on the up coming amp.

You could pick up a 7100 for now and enjoy the tunes and sell it on eBay later. There will be lots of buyers I would think.

Also, No one knows how long the wait will be. It appears the 790 is next up on the amp block, which may have a matching power button.. [and 300watts per channel]

I'm in the same boat and called Outlaw to get an idea when the matching faceplates would be available for their current amps - their response: no idea. Maybe you'll have better luck when you call...

-SM

By all means give 'em a call. They may be able to give you some insight that hasn't popped up yet.

Personally, I already had my amps (one benefit of separates once you get into it is that the amp can last through multiple generations of processor), so I sort of don't count in this debate. My four-year-old Model 750 isn't likely to match any processor or source component that will pass through my equipment rack in the years to come. Besides, you can't even see my big amp unless you open the equipment rack door. Even though it won't affect me any, I do hope that the interest in updated faceplates will lead to some product revisions before too much time passes.

This is the sole reason I went for the 950/770, so I could upgrade either unit and not be left wanting.

Sure, the 790 will look like a the 990 (my 770 is tucked away...well hidden by my SVS ) and when and if I ever need 300w per channel, or that I can convince my wife at a later date that I need 'cleaner' power, I'll get one (she asked me why I didn't buy the matching amp...*sniffle* window closing...

Thanks for the replys

Is it even possible to replace the face of the current outlaw amps?

Respectfully... Matching faceplate designs are the least important reason I would wait. The balanced inputs on the 790 amp would seem to be a better reason for myself and others who are not seriously concerned about the negative commentary generated in the balanced vs. unbalanced debate. The 300 watts of continuous full frequency range power might also come into play for larger speaker systems and/or the head bangers out there.

Also, I am interested in the 990 / 790 combo, and the price break Outlaw will give on the pair.

As my heavy amps are down at the bottom of the racks (low center of gravity and no button pushing required), and the Pre-Pro is up top to save my back, the aesthetic argument becomes almost moot. And for those of us with balanced EQ gear, which are located just above the amps in my case, the balanced signal path will be most welcome and worth waiting for.

Nevertheless, I would like to send a big and indebted thank you to all of those who have bought the 990, as your pioneering spirit gives all of us a more informed basis for making purchases and conquering our fear of the unknown. The beachhead belongs to you.

Allan

Petty as it sounds,

I also would like my equipment to match. If I already had it I wouldnt care. But if you are getting all your equipment from one manufacturer and it is new well, you sort of expect it to look the same, the esthetics is one of the reasons to get everything from one supplier. Its not only the power button, its the logo, the text, the colors..

I did not act on the 990 email notification order due to not having a matching amp to go with the 990. I have an older Denon receiver now, so when I upgrade, I want to do it right and with a similar look. The 790 is just too much amp (over kill) for me.

I have a gut feeling that based on previous mention in the “Call for Beta Testers” announcement that we may see some new replacement amps with a matching 990 face plates later this year. Here is what caught my attention from that announcement:

"As those of you who follow all things Outlaw know, the past year has been one where we spent a great deal of time working on new product design and development. While we only introduced one new product (the LFM-1) in 2004, we may bring as many as eight new products to market before 2005 comes to a close. Some, such as the Model 1070 Surround Receiver, the RR 2150 "RetroReceiver" and the Model 790 Amplifier, have been previewed at the Home Entertainment Shows, while others are still brewing in the development labs deep within the Outlaw's Hideout".

The key point being: “as many as EIGHT NEW PRODUCTS to the market BEFORE 2005 comes to a CLOSE”. It seems Outlaw has only confirmed 5 of the 8 product to date that have/will be released in 2005 (990, LFM-2, 1070, RR2150, and 790). What will the next 3 products be? My guess is new amps in the 100 – 200 wpc range with balanced inputs and looks to match the 990. I cannot believe Outlaw would introduce a new pre/pro with balanced outputs that only matches up with a 300 wpc killer amp. They would be missing a large segment of their market for the 100 – 200 wpc range if balanced inputs were not offered. My 2 cents.

Maybe you need some black spray paint for the amp, then they will match..

If you're inclined to put any significance to model numbers, you might ask why Outlaw skipped model 970 for 990, or is the 990 just coming earlier than a model 970?

That sounds like a touch of class. I may try that out.

Maybe I could make a silver power button and make millions selling them to the group!

Just Kidding.. No offense intended..

well I called outlaw and they were very nice in telling me that they aren't going to be telling me anything.

Basicly that they have new products in the works but when they will be avaliable is not something they can talk about.

Oh well maybe I'll see about a different amp....I thgoutht the old outlaw look was kind of cool but I think that is the problem with something that looks different..it doesn't always go with everything.

That is was I like about the new 990 and 790 look is that it is very classic and it till match other brands nicely, if I ever upgrade

Before I get too concerned about the look of my pre/pro and amp being the same for aesthetic reasons, Outlaw will also have to have made my DirecTV/Tivo, DVD player, CD changer, VHS, game console, etc. so that everything will match. Right now the 990 and the 770 are separated by enough dissimilar looking stuff that they do kind of match in that wierd hodgepodge way.

Back to the first sentence, well Outlaw, are you up to the challenge? I need to upgrade everything to match the quality of my 990/770 combo anyway.

Jeff

Just buy everything in black, and then they all match..

Besides, you don't want reflections of your movie in your silver faceplate on your CD player..

I am also waiting to see what happens. While I can't get too excited about getting seperates to match, it would, however, be nice to have at some point in time.

300 watts per channel would be nice to have, but don't know how often I would use that much power.

I remain undecided as to whether balanced outputs will do much for me. I would only have a cable run of a foot or two.

Any other features that may be introduced with the 790?

Two plugins!

What do you mean by two plugins?

I think it needs two circuits and has two outlets in the back, or am I thinking of another amp..

The 790 (at least the one we saw in New York last year, and I presume this hasn't changed) had two separate power connections - the only way to get 2100W of output is to have more than 2100W of input, and a single 15A circuit only offers 1800W. You should be able to connect a 790 to a single circuit, but you won't be able to max out all seven channels at once without two dedicated 15A circuits.

gonk: needing two seperate circuits is sort of a "sporty" proposition for most of us. You would either have to wire an additional circuit to your listening room or run one of the plugs to a different circuit in another room. Neither of these options appeal very much to me.

Of course, with audio, you are looking at peaks not continuous duty. I went and looked at the manual for the 770 to see if I could tell what the fuze in the input line was. I did not see it specified. How big is the fuze in the 750 that you have?

Like I said, you don't have to have it - the 790 would still work if fed from a single 15A circuit, it just wouldn't be able to produce the full 300W from all seven channels at once (which would be an improbably demand anyway). And no matter whose amps you buy, if you want to have seven channels with 300W each and the ability to push them all tho that level, you've going to need those two separate circuits anyway since a single 15A circuit can't provide that much power.

I've never messed with my 750's fuse, so I don't know what size it is.

gonk: my house wiring for the plugs are all 20 amp circuits, so I have a little more "juice" for the equipment.

I strongly suspect that it would be very difficult to drive all seven channels to 300 watts for more than a couple of seconds, with HT. If I am correct, the capacitor banks should be more than adequate to handle the surge.

Is the fuze on you amp internal or external where you could look at it? On the pictures, I did not see an external one. I am really interested in what Outlaw uses for there fuze size.

What say the rest of the tribe. Anyone know what size fuze is in the 775 or 770.

All of your receptacles are 20A circuits? That's unusual - 15A is the standard in most homes, at least in my area. It would certainly be handy, though.

I agree that it is difficult if not impossible to conceive of a scenario where you could drive all seven channels of a home theater to 300W simultaneously, but an amp manufacturer still needs to provide at least the physical capability of generating the rated output. I suspect that very few 790's will ever get two dedicated circuits.

I believe that the fuse in my 750 is internal, and my equipment rack is not conducive to getting to the rear panel without an hour or two of wire wrestling. You might give Outlaw a call or try their support site to find out about the fuses - I bet they could give you all the info you want pretty readily.

Hope those 20amp circuits are running 12/2 wire or better..

trikos: all the 20 amp circuits have 12/3, 2 conductor plus ground. The overhead lights are on seperate 15 amp circuits, 14/3, 2 conductor plus ground. Its all to "code."

gonk: here is what Outlaw said about the fuze.

"The Models 770 and 755 amplifiers do not use a fuse at the AC inlet. Instead, they use a dedicated 15 amp circuit breaker which doubles as a master power switch."

Interesting! I like that design.

ratpack

Good man! Just didn't want anyone burning up a perfectly good 790..

parts express has good price on good power wire .. i have 2 dedicated 20 a breaker i came off from panel and ran the wiring direct to my 2 monster hts 2500 's no plugs i put a junction box in and spliced and soldered all connects.. your system is only as strong as your weakest link,,,

oh if wondering why 2 20a... i ve tried all sources on one and amps on other and split across also .. found that to best of liking.. one has the ATI 1506 and some source equipt other has 2 powered subs and prepro etc ..

I'm also interested in upgrading my amp once I receive my 990. Does anyone have any additional specs for the 790, like what its output is at 4 Ohms, etc.?

ratpack, just a note: 2 conductors (white/black) + ground is actually 12/2, as odd as it sounds. 12/3 is actually 4 total conductors (often white/black/red) + ground.

it would be nice to get the amp too, but you can always use what you already have and wait to upgrade to the 790. though there will probably be a package deal for the 2.

We don't have much on the 790 at this point, and it may be a while before we do (the impression I got from reports coming out of the HE Show in New York back in late April made it sound like they were making some significant changes to the design). You might consider contacting Outlaw and asking if they would honor the package pricing (whatever it ends up being) if you bought the 990 now and the 790 when it came out later?

Question:
I have not seen the 990 in person but understand it is actually black and not charcoal as it appears on-line. If it is black, will it not match the M200s?

Thanks,
Ed

It is black, and it is a pretty decent match to the M200's - the only real differences are that the model number on the 200's is silkscreened in green while the 990's is silkscreened in white and that the 990's faceplate has rounded corners in lieu of the M200's squared off corners (although rounded corners on something as shallow as an M200 would have to be very carefully done so as to not look odd). My 990 is visible through the glass of a cabinet door (at least the front display is, since the rest pretty much disappears behind the slightly tinted glass), while the pair of M200's are in plain sight on a shelf below the TV, so they aren't particularly close together in my setup. If they were all stacked together in a single open-front rack, I doubt the difference in corners or text color would elicit much comment.

Martha Stewart visits....

"Nice sound, but the edges and lettering on all your components doesn't look exactly the same, and is a different color than your carpet. You should upgrade."

- great post, Spiky. Maybe Outlaw could develop a booklet of arts and crafts projects for making replacement equipment faceplates out of common household items so that your amps, processor, DVD player, cable or satellite box, media server, game console, TV, and ten-year-old VCR are all properly coordinated with each other, the room they are located in, and the current holiday season. Instead of THX certification, it could come with Martha's personal seal of approval.

The Martha Stewart Seal of Approval... would that be the MSSA? Sounds a lot like RIAA or MPAA

Sounds like you need a license to power this beast up. All the neighbors lights are going to dim when I turn this thing on:)

Just pinging this old thread so that the Outlaws know that this is still an important issue for some of us...

Aren't we about overdue for an updated newsletter anyway? Fingers crossed that new faceplates on their amps is one of the newsworthy items...

-SM

I agree. Right now I am on the fence between a mismatched Outlaw combo and the matching and in my opinion better finished Sherwood P-965/A-965 combo. If the Outlaw combo at least matched I wouldnt mind the more plasticky (my new word) build. But to have a cheaper build (mind you I mean cosmentic not internal) combined with mismatching components is an oversight! Whats the news Outlaw????

:rolleyes: I’m sorry if this post offends some folks, but here goes. The subject of this thread is one of the greatest non-issues I have ever seen on this forum. Components don’t always match, even from the same manufacturer, but it doesn’t matter. All of you should be happy that all of the Outlaw components are at least black. The thing that matters most is performance, and for the money the Outlaw’s win, hands down. If the aesthetics are a problem than there are a number of options available to you. Audio furniture with frosted glass doors, perforated metal doors, or place the components in a closet. If those options are not good enough, buy something else. Most audio racks contain components from various companies, and they don’t match. Sometimes there not even the same color, let alone the fact that graphically they are different. As the Don Henley song goes, “ Get over it”. :rolleyes:

I have all 20 amp service in my house also, i think it's an older house thing, before the code changed to 15a standard outlets. So if i'm calculating right then would a 20amp outlet be able to produce 2400w ??

I'm just curious how these people buy dvd players or allow cable boxes into their home. I haven't seen any that match a pre/pro and amp combo. Color is all that is important unless you can match every single piece of gear in your rack.

Readster, your math and mine are in agreement. A 120V, 20A circuit should be able to provide 2400W.

Obviously components from different vendors will not match. And saying performance is what matters is so obvious and such a cliche its not worth answering. But, someone who is buying everything from ONE company, brand new, and spending a singificant money, probably expects it to match and also look good. If I already had an amp and was upgrading my preamp I would not care (other than at least try to get the same color like black or silver, and even that is hard with cable boxes and such). But if I am buying everything brand spanking new, from the same company, well at best it would be a wierd quirk the consumer doesnt care about or at worse its a lost sale.

Some people like their audio/video electronics setup to look good ( I would say many to most but It would just be a guess). Why would you see so many pics of setups in magazines if this were not the case, and why would this topic exist, why such expensive furniture (like bello)to display the eqpuipment (instead of enclosed racks)? To pretend people are being ridiculous because they are aware of or give weight to aesthetics is in my opinion a mistake. They made a significant investment and would prefer it if it looks as good as it sounds.

Every company knows a products looks matters. Thats why they hire industrial design firms, graphics artists, sculptures, etc. to design the look and feel for their products and convey an image. Why is it so strange we expect Brand X to have a consistent look and feel across their product line?

If looks are such a non issue in a product line, ask yourself this: Do you really think Outlaw will continue to produce a line without a consistent look and feel, each product on its own path with no relation to the others? Or do you think they are selling whats left of the old line before releasing the new revisions?

All we are saying is, some people are waiting for this to happen before purchasing.

elikd: a very well thought out and reasoned post!!!

readster: it is highly unlikely that you would EVER use 300 watts in all 7 channels at the same time. My speakers are rated at 91 dB SPL for 1 watt. 300 watts would be about 25 dB more. I find anything over 87 dB to just be too loud. I would not be playing anything in my house at 116 DB SPL!! If you can get or borrow a sound meter, make a few measurements. I think that you would be surprised.

There is nothing wrong with having an amp that runs 300 for each of 7 channels. I may get one myself. But, I would be surprised if your 20 amp circuit is not sufficient for your listening pleasure.

I'm running 2,520 watts on 4 amps, a Sammy 50" DLP, Denon 3910 DVD player and the 990 on one dedicated 20 amp circuit and have never tripped the breaker. I listen at peaks exceeding 100dB when no one else is in the house.

I'm another who is waiting to see if they even announce a matching 790 (or whatever they may call it) or even if they'll honor the package pricing as others have suggest. I would be happy with just that so I could order the 990.

Oil Can, I'm not offended by your post but my wife sure is!

-SM

Sorry, Mrs. merkls.

"Do you really think Outlaw will continue to produce a line without a consistent look and feel, each product on its own path with no relation to the others?"

They do have a consistent look, and feel. They are all designed, and sold by Outlaw, and they are all black. Please tell me how you intend to have all of your components match if they are not all made by the same company. I don't remember seeing cable set top boxes, CD players, tuners, turntables, DVD players etc. made by Outlaw.

Well its rather interesting how I do that... I dedicate all day to creating tiny imitation Outlaw logos (with green construction paper and scissors), peel the original non Outlaw logo off the equipment and stick on my home made Outlaw Logos (using Crazy Glue). In addition, if its a different color, I go over the entire case with a permanent black marker unti it is Outlaw Black. I also scan the entire manuals and remove any reference to the original brand replacing it with Outlaw.

Since they DO have a consistent look and feel then I guess we will not see a refresh of the outlaw line that will make them similar to the 990 (since none is necessary) and the new 790 will look just like the 770. I guess we agree to disagree and we shall have to wait and see.

barnabas: I suspect that 100 dB SPL is plenty loud. LOL!!! But, if your speakers are about as efficient as mine, that's only about 10 watts averaged among ALL of your channels.

Enjoy your audio gear.

I'm waiting to see what the new Sammy 6168 looks like. I just heard that their market entry will be delayed until about the middle of next month.

Oh, well, guess that I will just wait.

Well the only visible parts of our system will be the pre/pro and amp, so there isn't much need to try to match our other components, which will all be tucked away behind closed doors. And since my wife has been especially tolerant of my recent HT spending, I really have no problem indulging her one HT requirement: aesthetics.

So, get with the program, Outlaws - stamp out some faceplates and let's move on. Those of us waiting for them will be happy and those of us that don't care will continue not to care.

-SM

First your probably right. I guess I may just be a little more shallow then I thought. But to say aesthetic shouldn’t matter is a stretch. Would you buy a outlaw amp if they sold them in bright pink?

The problem is that the amp maybe around longer then the 990. I almost want to be more happy with the amp then with the pre/pro.

As much as I kind of dug the original design of the 950 and the outlaw amps, I have to be honest.
The green button and green writing is something I find less then attractive (ducking under my desk). Especially since I saw the new amp design and the 990. It not a matter of matching as much as I really like the new design.

Besides Outlaw themselves are changing their designs, not me.