Any Negatives ???

Just looking to see if all are happy .. so far we have heard all good things ..(not that i'd expect otherwise) but i ..as most like contrast .. only bug i've heard is a few with the auto set up with mic but is user error.. for the most part .. also any new saloon members ..(im no veteran ) wont feel this is a bias place for info.. i am a audioreview member and cant wait to get a review set up in their site.. so far it seems outlaw has another great piece of equiptment on thier hands ..

Well, obviously, there is the issue of getting it into the equipment rack - it's tall and deep, so it can pose a challenge depending on your situation. I also suspect that there will be a number of folks who will end up picking up a third party universal remote (such as an MX-500 or a Harmony) since the included remote is a pretty basic universal piece.

Someone had mentioned that the 990 remote was similar to the one that shipped with the model 1050.

That may mean that the remote is JP1 compatible. Anyone know for sure ?

Mike

It is a UEI Catalyst48, the same remote as the Model 1050 used. I believe that it is JP1 compatible (at least, there was some discussion of it being feasible back when the 1050 was still in production), and I do seem to remember seeing some jumpers under the battery cover the other day. HiFi-Remote might be able to offer some more info on it.

great quick input .. hey gonk i see you recommend the harmany 500 ... do you have a price or dealer to order from ?? and i believe harmany has online codes for units ??? 990 is already on there???

sorry i didnt get my & between harmony and 500 .. i have heard good things about the harmany ..

I have a Harmony 676 that I use with my 950 and I'm really quite happy with it. My standard caveat is that it can take quite a lot of tweaking to get the setup just right, but it's very versatile and the Harmony database of devices is enormous. EVERYTHING I own was in their database (and, trust me, I have a couple of fairly esoteric items.)

thanks bobblinds very helpfull..

I did a Harmony "test drive" earlier today in anticipation of getting my 990 this weekend.

The 990 is now listed for Outlaw devices.

Does the Harmony have an extensive macro language, or are you stuck with downloads.

I have not used one, but they seem to be more popular where I live than the MX500/800.

I have the MX500 which I like. I found that it would not work with my new Philips HDTV or the Motorola 9012 HDR. I sent the MX500 back to Universal Remote Controls where they upgraded the unit with codes that would work my new components. The only charge was shipping to them. That's great service. If I had spent the extra money for a better model I could have updated it myself.

I have seen nothing but good reviews for the Harmony. I am going to get the H880 to control everything.

I had some initial issues with Harmony. Talked to the guys there, and they strightened it out in 10 minutes. Thanks to Scott for getting the 990's codes to them in advance. The harmony takes some tweaking before you get it set perfect, but it works great. I needed to adjust button speed more than anything else. (tivo was going too slow) I have the H680 which is the one used to media PC's. I don't own a media PC though... Well, it works everything I own and more. From the Arcam to the Yamakawa region free DVD player I own. Who can complain about that?

Shawn

Is there any macro capability in the Harmony? ie can you chain commands together on one button?

The only negitive that I have so far (I just got it in the rack last night) is the things is a BEAST!!! Its very large. It took me about 2 hours to get it into the rack, (cutting the back panel, removing shelves, taking other equipment out etc...)

So far so good. The auto setup worked great for me....although I have not had the chance to go back and check with my RS sound meter...

Yes, there are macros. Like if you push HDTV on the remote, it turns on the TV, switches to the HDTV input, turns on the 990, switches it to the HDTV input and the amp triggers. For my CD player, the 990 turns on, switches to CD, the Arcam has the 12 volt trigger, so it is on at that point, I set it to delay 2 seconds (lets the amp turn on enough) and then hits play on the cd player.

Shawn

Cool, sounds like the ticket for anyone not needing RF

If you crave ultimate flexibility look at the MX-700 or the Pronto line. Harmony makes great remotes, but they do lack a little in the customization department.

At twice the coin, yes..

Depends where you shop. A new MX-700 can be had for $160-$170 shipped.

Where did you "had" it for that?

I am not sure if this is against forum rules, so feel free to delete this post Outlaw. I figure it might benefit some people who want to upgrade from the 990's remote.

I have bought 6 mx-700's through Ebay. I will personally vouch for this seller, dougtheaterman, as I have bought 5 of my 6 mx-700's from him. The remotes come with a two year replacement plan and 2 day shipping. Unfortunately he has raised his shipping price by $10 so its now $180 shipped. As of now he has 28 available in this batch.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=61323&item=5773800394&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Looking to save some money? This seller that I have never used, but looks reputable based on his overwhelming positive feedback is selling them for $165 shipped.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=61323&item=5774300682&rd=1

EDIT: Just to clarify, all of these remotes are brand new.

Geez, if what you did is frowned upon, then I think I did a bad too. Never thought I was, but I will check the doc and see if I was violating some rule..

I guess I wonder what that customization is. I have been able to program any and every function into my remote. It does have 3 dedicated buttons on top, but you can change those. I also paid, after rebate, $70 for my harmony.

Among other things, customization is having the choice to have any command, macros included, on any button on the remote (not just 3), and the ability to rename up to 40 commands for each device. With the Harmonys you are letting the remote control decide how it should be used most effectively. Harmony sells their remotes on ease of programming, where Pronto and HTM sell theirs on customization. All three are absolutely great remotes, but they all have different plus and minuses. As a user you need to decide what is most important to you. For further info, go to www.remotecentral.com.

Trikos, a lot of forums don't allow links to live auctions, but I have seen it done here before so I assumed its not against the rules.

So far so good! The only complaint I have is I can't get the Auto set-up to work properly:

(taken form a sinking post)

During auto calibration it detects my Left and Right BACK Surrounds at very different distances:

LBS @ 13'
RBS @ 2'

This is consistent each time through.

As far as position from the sweet spot both are the same height and distance behind and out to the sides.

The same for my LS being a little further out due to room size. Yet for the Surrounds (L/R sides) it nails them @ 7' (LS) and 6' (RS) out from the sweet spot; dead on.

I've set the delay to match the compensation for the surrounds, bringing the LSB to 12'.

One thing to keep in mind it that there are some factors in the speaker itself that can cause slight variations in delay. No two speakers are exactly a like.

But I would not think the difference between 13 and 2 ft..

OK, here is something I find as a negative. Only one video input can be used while listening to SACD and DVD-A. I used to enjoy listening to multi channel music while watching sports on tv or while playing video games but now that is no longer the case. Sure I could go to the menu and change the input everytime I decide to watch something else, but to me that is not very user friendly. Hopefully this can be fixed with a software upgrade.

Jed,

You can create more macros on a harmony, you just scroll through them on the LCD panel. It is all about customizing. I have about 20 macros setup. I also like that the harmony is smaller. But that is just me. To each there own.

Sfox, agreed.

Tim Allen remote, or sexy, but a bit skinny remote...

Yea, I have some comments on what could be better on the 990...

1) This thing is a bit too large, almost silly large. Personally I am of the opinion that they should have ignored the DVI/HDMI situation alltogether and left it out. Seriously, if you want the best video, the fewer variables between the source and the TV the better.

2) No EQ. Bass and Treble is it, and it takes effect on all channels the same. I don't understand the thinking on this. You mean to tell me they could not implement a EQ in this? My 3 year old receiver has an EQ for each speaker zone, and that will be missed! I am really hoping that they implement a more detailed EQ through a software upgrade down the line.

3) Bass and Trebel tone goes from -6 to +6. Uhhh, you could not go -10 to +10?

4) In order to make setting changes, chances are that you will need to bring up the setting menu on the TV. They should have had the display on the unit show where you are in the menu, so you can make a change while watching something.

My 2 cents. Jury is out for me at this time... I just don't know...

I sgree with Jester about EQ-Bass-Treble.
My solution will be to place EQ between 990 & amp.
While it shouldn't be necessary the 990 (IMHO) is so good that I don't really mind.

Can't have everything

Hopefully upgrades will happen.

Jester:

Are you sure you aren't confusing "EQ" with bass management? Three years ago there were NO receivers from ANYONE with automated setup and room EQ, as the processors available at the time were not capable of handling that sort of MIPS overhead. The 990 does appear to have extensive bass management capabilities per each of the FOUR speaker groups. I know for certain that NO recevier had that three years ago.

As to the value of the various automated EQ systems, yes, it would be nice to have, but according to many, the jury is still out on that.

PodBoy,

"The 990 does appear to have extensive bass management capabilities per each of the FOUR speaker groups."

All you can do for a speaker group is set the size and crossover. That's not extensive unless I'm missing something. The other receiver that I have is a Sony 4ES. Your right, it did not do automated setup, but that was not too difficult to do.

Also, just to add to my list:

5) Manipulating Lipsync works a bit poorly and really should be fixed to work with less button pushes. Right now you have to do the following:

Sync-> up or down for delay time-> select (to hear the results.

What I think it should be is as it is in the input config:

Sync-> up or down for the delay time and you hear the results.

6) There is no Hi Crossover setting that you can adjust for the Subwoofer. I will have to use the one on the Sub unless there is a hard coded high limit in the 990, but the manual has no mention.

Question: With the 990 (Sub set to LFE), when you set the crossover for a front speaker to say 80Hz, what does it do with the signal below that level, send it to the sub? The Sony did, but this does not mention that either. If it does, then what does L/R + LFE do?

Jester:

TO be honest, you ARE missing something. First, of course, you did miss the fact that the receiver you have doens't have auto EQ.

Next, you are missing the fact that there are very few receivers and even fewer processors (name as many as you please) that offer the 4-way crossover. Thus, what the 990 has IS better than most everything out there if you exclude auto-EQ.

CHeck me on this, but I believe that when you go up or down to change the sync delay, it IS changing, and that the "Select" is to enter the setting to memory and exit the function. If that is the case, then you already have what you are looking for.

These are all rather minor issues in the way a feature is implemented, not in the presence or absence of the feature. One would hope that you could live with it and perhaps it could be changed later. In the mean time, it still looks as though you are complaining about things that other similarly priced products don't even have.

By the way, how does it SOUND?

PodBoy,

The Sony 4ES had five way crossover. 4ES Manual

I don't understand your point with the Auto-EQ statement. The 990 has none, where the Sony 4ES did for each speaker zone.

Lipsync does not change, each time you want to try a setting, you have to hit select and if that does not do it, then you have to repeat the process. It would not be painful if you could see the setting on the 990 screen, instead of the TV attached. I am fortunate that I have PIP that will allow me to see the other input while I watch in the source, but not all people do.

I think people should expect more from the software that is being given, so yes, I feel that there are some features that have been out there for years and are not in this unit, and some of the ones that are, are not as accessable when you need them as they should be.

Still have this Question: With the 990 (Sub set to LFE), when you set the crossover for a front speaker to say 80Hz, what does it do with the signal below that level, send it to the sub? The Sony did, but this does not mention that either. If it does, then what does L/R + LFE do?

i see both points .. but to the fellow wanting eq ... on home theater you have few choices .. rane or audio control .. i am a audiocontrol fan .. and i use a bijou 7 channel thx .. used to use a realto.. know these retail and sell for bijou 1000 retail and 800 true cost .. realto 700 and 400 to 500 real cost .. because constant q tech and other good things .. now if you want eq me i would rather have a quality external eq than a cheap internal in a high end prepro .. one other option is just eq you mains .. this will make a big diff in whole HT sound .. you center can sound clearer by trimming off some of the same freqs in the mains .. your vocal range .. mostly mids .. and most folks wanting to eq have much larger mains than center and surrounds .. when 5 6 or 7 of the same speaker is being used they tend to not overtake one another .. oh one trick to eq ing 101 .. always try to trim down... most folks thing example ..i want more bass .. so they take 60 80 100 up .. try goin down on the others .. many eq companies explain this in their lit.. good luck .. jester .. i have eq in my alpine in my car and yes it is nice .. buts it s my car .. yes in a reciever for my game room (xbox etc ..) it would be nice internal .. but when i'm using a $2000 dollar ATI amp and a say $1100 outlaw 990 i'm going for the audio control $800 bijou.. at this level of HT and already using seperates go for the good stuff .. oh the big deal of constant Q is one you move one freq band it does not effect any other band .. internals do not have this .. at least none ive seen or that are afordable ..

Jester:

Don't want to parse this out, but I stand corrected in that you are right, the 4ES does have EQ, but not the "Auto EQ" that I am referring to here. So to some extent we're both right. To have Auto EQ you need to have an external mic, etc.

As to the delay, you HAVE to see it on the screen, as opposed to the front panel display. Otherwise, how else would you know when the picture and sound are in sync?

Hey, it's a ball game and you can pick the side you want. No product can please everyone, every time. On the other hand, the top-level feature package of the 990: DVI switching, LipSync delay, auto setup of output level and delay times, 4-way crossover, USB and RS-232 upgradeability, playback from computer to USB in, balanced outputs, etc., for $1,099 AND the fact that as far as all reports indicate, IT SOUNDS GREAT, seem to make it a great bargain.

You're hung on implementation of a feature that, while perhaps less convenient than you might like, you only set once. Your right to do that. But you haven't told us HOW DOES IT SOUND?

PodBoy,

Yea your right, you DO HAVE to see what your doing when using Sync (though you could assume that when you press a button it does something on faith). But I don't put my two HDMI sources nor my two HD Component sources trough anything except directly to the TV (I want to make sure I get every ounce of video quality with a 70" display), so I will never see the sync delay unless I use the PIP. I would think that most would/should go directly to the TV if that were an option to them. I understand that many TVs do not have enough connections...

The thread is about the negatives of the 990, and I thought that these should be pointed out.

Great discussion so far. I hooked up the beast last night, my first negative is indeed the size. Certainly not a killer for me, but I do wish it were smaller. I still have a ways to go before I can attest to other issues, but so far, so good.

950 has double bass issue. Has this issue removed from 990?

There are two scenarios on the 950 that are capable of producing "double bass": stereo bypass when the mains are set to "small" and the 5.1 analog input when the analog bass management switch is set to "off."

The Model 990 does not have analog bass management on its 7.1 direct input. Instead, it either uses the digital bass management or (if all speakers are set to large) bypasses any bass management at all. Therefore, there is no potential for double bass on the 7.1 direct input.

I'm not entirely sure how the stereo analog bypass behaves - I thought I knew, but some recent discussion is making me reconsider that. There may still be a potential situation where the mains get a full-range signal but the sub also gets a copy of that signal that is taken from below the crossover point for those speakers - this would create a double bass condition, but it would (as with the 950) be in a frequency range where the mains are presumably dropping off severely, making it more like 1.5x bass or 1.2x bass.

I didn't realize this. I thought they were using the same analog bass management that the 950 had. Guess you learn something everyday.

Add another issue with the 990...

Sometimes the remote will not power on the 990. The only way I have found to solve this is to press a video input selection. Power button has been flakey...

EDIT: Thanks for the clarification below!

The Power button is a discrete OFF command. It will never turn the 990 on. The audio and video input selectors are combination discrete on/source commands. These (the input selectors) are the buttons that must be used to turn the Model 990 on.

And the power button thing is one of the best things about Outlaw, albeit it might be confusing for family members at first. I had an RCA satelitte receiver that did the same thing and I still miss it. To anybody who sees this as a negative, get a learning remote and try to do macros without discretes.

I don't have one, am just shopping at this point, but the biggest negative for me is the lack of a separate Rec Out circuit. I think the Zone 2 can work for this, but not sure. Definitely have to figure this out if I am to consider this an option.

Really too bad they didn't just do HDMI. Why are wire converters easy for consumers, but coping with a changing HDMI spec difficult? That just doesn't compute.

Don't get me wrong, I have chosen to keep the 990 because it sounds better than the 4ES, but if I did not have speakers that were matched, I would miss the EQ.

Unfortunately for me, I prefer my Denon 3910's audio DACs enough that I wanted it to handle my SACD/DVD-A bass management, as well as avoiding unnecessary A/D conversions. In order to do this without enabling the 990's bass management, I had to set my speakers to Large on the 990. According to the very helpful Steve, from tech support, this also disables the bass management on *every other* input as well. This should not be the case. If I want analog bypass on something designed for high-resolution sound like the 7.1 inputs, it should be a simple electronic or analog switch that toggles it for that input only. Fortunately the only sound I listen to digitally is from Xbox and DirecTV, but if/when that changes, I'll want the flexibility to easily use both bypass and the 990s bass management and assign them to whatever inputs I wish.

Rick

Spiky:

Yes, there is no reason why you can't use the Zone 2 buss as a tape out for a different input than the main room if that's what you need.

The problem with "coping with a changing HDMI spec" is just that" the spec is changing. It is now at 1.1, and about to go to 1.2. Beyond that, there is likely to be a 1.3, and there is no guarantee that a 1.2 design will be software upgradeable; it may require a hardware change. Keeping with DVI is a safer bet for now.