990 New Owner Help w/ Volume

Posted by: Kele

990 New Owner Help w/ Volume - 06/10/11 09:14 PM

New to me 990. Sounds good. But I'm stumped about why the volume on video sources (optical and a composite) are so low! Compared to CD (composite) which is good and loud at -20 db, the video sources require max +8 to be that loud. Something isn't right. With this oddness, if I switch from DVD to CD you can imagine how alarming and loud that is. The on-board tuner (FM) is about as loud as the CD player (normal). I did change video media just to make sure; it's consistant, the two video sources' volume is low. I havn't found the reason for this; please help.

My first day with 990. Just created an account; my first post to ask this question.
Posted by: KOYAAN

Re: 990 New Owner Help w/ Volume - 06/10/11 09:40 PM

I've never encountered anything like that with the 990. Have you tried CD via optical ? What processing modes are you using ?
Posted by: Kele

Re: 990 New Owner Help w/ Volume - 06/10/11 11:55 PM

I struggled with that issue a big part of the day. I put the mic auto set-up and ran that... not that I figured my issue would be fixed by that, but it's all I hadn't tried. I thought you guys were going to tell me it's normal. I was worried. After the mic calibration thing, guess what! Who knew it was mandatory to use the mic calibration!? I have a feeling I'll come back here to the forum... it's a heck of a preamp that I still no nearly nothing about. Talk at you later.
Posted by: gonk

Re: 990 New Owner Help w/ Volume - 06/11/11 12:07 AM

DVD is normally at least somewhat quieter than CD (doubly so with most recent CD releases) and broadcast TV. This is intentional, as it helps provide more dynamics. A difference of 28dB seems excessive, though. For that matter, a +8dB setting is very high.

A few things come to mind. First, have you calibrated your 990 yet? If not, I'd recommend using the automatic or manual setup options (described in the manual) to get the 990 configured for your speakers and room. Also, I'd check to see what processing modes are in use for each input. Combining 5 Stereo or 7 Stereo with a CD could increase the difference between sources.
Posted by: Kele

Re: 990 New Owner Help w/ Volume - 06/12/11 02:28 PM

After a little more time with the 990 (an entire day so far!), Dolby & DTS (surround) modes are quieter than non-surround modes... The speaker volume level calibration helped a little. But I can play movies at -11 db no problem, where as in five channel/stereo modes, -11 db is VERY loud. I think I know why this is, assuming mine is not defective. I noticed that Channel calibration, I can set individual speakers up to as much as +15 db. It’s helpful to have that flexibility - something my Adcom didn't; it could only attenuate Ctr/LR/RR channels, not boost.

Because there is this +db headroom built into surround modes, +15 is actually 0 db (in non-surround mode equivalent). That would be about the difference I experience between surround and non-surround mode volumes. This is my theory anyway.

After using the auto mic, I see the individual speaker’s volumes are nearly all zero, +2 / -1 at the most. What I’ll probably end up doing is add 10 db to each & all of the individual speaker’s level settings. They will all maintain their proportion with each other, but surround modes will more closely match non-surround volume levels… so if I switch sources, the disparity in volume won’t be as great.

Thank you responders! Is this forum moderated by Outlaw to “approve” my intention (above) with the 990? I don’t want to make a trouble ticket for this type of question. I did make an official trouble ticket two days ago before hooking up anything… to ask if I could use a three pronged non-OEM power cord… They replied quick and said ok if gauge appropriate.
Posted by: gonk

Re: 990 New Owner Help w/ Volume - 06/12/11 08:17 PM

Did the auto setup select trim settings yield the near-zero levels? If so, my advice is to make any changes equally to all channels - so if you add +10 on one channel, add the same to all. It sounds like that is what you have in mind.

The five channel stereo mode is going to be the loudest, in a way that can be a bit misleading, so it's best to leave it out of the mix when comparing behavior of different modes. Surround modes (Dolby, DTS, and even Pro Logic IIx) and true stereo should all be quieter, and are a more useful basis for comparison.

Originally Posted By: Kele
Thank you responders! Is this forum moderated by Outlaw to “approve” my intention (above) with the 990? I don’t want to make a trouble ticket for this type of question. I did make an official trouble ticket two days ago before hooking up anything… to ask if I could use a three pronged non-OEM power cord… They replied quick and said ok if gauge appropriate.

The Outlaws provide the forum and do a bare minimum moderation - as long as we behave ourselves, they leave us be, although they also drop in some and will chime in from time to time. if you need tech support from them, the most sure-fire way to get it is to use their support site or call them.
Posted by: KOYAAN

Re: 990 New Owner Help w/ Volume - 06/12/11 09:10 PM

What your describing now seems more normal. I generally play music sources around -20 to -16 but often need to go to @ -12 for movies.
Posted by: Kele

Re: 990 New Owner Help w/ Volume - 06/13/11 10:35 AM

Ok partners, the 990's volume(s) is my new normal. Piece of mind to hear it's the same for you. It sounds so pristine, I will learn to deal with her quirks.

Yes Gonk, all were zero after auto setup except for center (-1), Sub (+2), and RR (+1). My amp has physical individual volume pots for each channel, all were maxed before commencing with auto trim setup. Speakers are pretty even/distanced not by luck wink and the 990's mic check helped to confirm that. I can probably tweak my speaker angles, remove the sound absorbing cat from the room, and adjust the sub's own volume control; re-run the 990's check again and maybe hit all zeros for all channels. If you have used a spl meter; how does the 990's mic fair against that?

---

my next questions will be about the 990's controls... For example, so far I don't think it's possible, but have been looking to see if I can omit some unused sources so that it's not necessary to scroll through the unused source names in the 990's face source menu. I noticed I can direct access via remote, but since the 990 is so "computerized", it may be possible and I've just not found that option yet.
Posted by: gonk

Re: 990 New Owner Help w/ Volume - 06/13/11 11:37 AM

Originally Posted By: Kele
my next questions will be about the 990's controls... For example, so far I don't think it's possible, but have been looking to see if I can omit some unused sources so that it's not necessary to scroll through the unused source names in the 990's face source menu. I noticed I can direct access via remote, but since the 990 is so "computerized", it may be possible and I've just not found that option yet.

You cannot "turn off" unused inputs. They will all appear when scrolling through using the front panel.
Posted by: Kele

Re: 990 New Owner Help w/ Volume - 06/23/11 03:29 AM

About that Auto Set-up with the mic. I rearranged some things and ran the auto calibrate again. The distances after auto detection are not the actual distances in a few cases. I measured each distance and set accordingly, then tweaked distances while watching all three Lord of Rings.

I think if the distance is decreased the speaker fires later to give the perception of a larger room/space. I also noticed if the sub’s distance increased, the sub fires earlier and gives the perception of quick and agile base. My center channel speaker is above the TV. In order to get the sound to emit from center screen, messing with the distance can steer the sound up and down – that’s interesting. I think this is due to interaction with the mains which are mostly below the TV screen. I set the center to the exact distance and then +/- a foot or two and found it – the spot where the center sounded similar to the mains tonally. They are different brands of speaker and the center has always been bright and edgy. Then I modified the volume of the center and I finally have a uniform front. Stuff moves from left center right and it’s smooth! Not possible with my old preamp. The distance setting ability makes it for me. The share center with mains helps too; I have it on 2. Wow, the 990 is sweet. Still quirky though, ie: where’s the Fwd through preset FM channels button?

With night mode off – it’s insane! My sub shows it’s the weakest link with night mode off (unrestricted dynamics and killer base). I’ve answered the door twice in the last week to find it must have been the stereo. I don’t mind.
Posted by: gonk

Re: 990 New Owner Help w/ Volume - 06/23/11 11:51 AM

Originally Posted By: Kele
About that Auto Set-up with the mic. I rearranged some things and ran the auto calibrate again. The distances after auto detection are not the actual distances in a few cases. I measured each distance and set accordingly, then tweaked distances while watching all three Lord of Rings.

I think if the distance is decreased the speaker fires later to give the perception of a larger room/space. I also noticed if the sub’s distance increased, the sub fires earlier and gives the perception of quick and agile base.

The purpose of distance settings is to insure that all speakers' outputs reach the same point (the listening position) at the same time, even though each speaker's output has a different distance to travel. At the speed of sound, one foot roughly equates to one millisecond. Therefore by having distance settings, the processor takes the longest distance and applies no delay. It then takes the difference between that distance and each shorter distance and delays the other speakers by roughly 1ms per foot of difference. It's a simple way to explain the process, but it gives you the idea.

One interesting side effect of auto setup systems is that it can compensate for things other than just distance. Users of external sub EQ tools like the SMS-1 typically have some additional brief signal delay generated by that EQ process, and the microphone detects that delay as extra distance. It can then compensate for the delay with the distance setting.

Originally Posted By: Kele
My center channel speaker is above the TV. In order to get the sound to emit from center screen, messing with the distance can steer the sound up and down – that’s interesting. I think this is due to interaction with the mains which are mostly below the TV screen. I set the center to the exact distance and then +/- a foot or two and found it – the spot where the center sounded similar to the mains tonally. They are different brands of speaker and the center has always been bright and edgy. Then I modified the volume of the center and I finally have a uniform front. Stuff moves from left center right and it’s smooth! Not possible with my old preamp. The distance setting ability makes it for me. The share center with mains helps too; I have it on 2. Wow, the 990 is sweet.

This is an unusual use of the distance settings, but I'm glad to hear that you've been able to get the front soundstage dialed in so well. Speaker trim settings can also have a significant impact on this, as having level imbalances can really hurt the overall performance of the system.

Originally Posted By: Kele
Still quirky though, ie: where’s the Fwd through preset FM channels button?

If I remember correctly, the remote's channel up/down only changes the frequency. The number pad lets you directly access presets, but I think the only way I remember to scroll through the presets is the left and right cursor buttons on the front panel. You might try the cursor controls on the remote to see what they do with the tuner, though. It's been a few years since I used a Model 990, and even longer since I used the tuner on one - there may be a trick I'm forgetting.

Originally Posted By: Kele
With night mode off – it’s insane! My sub shows it’s the weakest link with night mode off (unrestricted dynamics and killer base). I’ve answered the door twice in the last week to find it must have been the stereo. I don’t mind.

Sounds like the 990 is working out well for you!
Posted by: Kele

Re: 990 New Owner Help w/ Volume - 06/24/11 11:20 PM

I'm listening to all the CDs for the first time, ie: through the 990. In bypass if I play it loud enough (about realistic) it's like surround is on only better. Man I havn't even fired up the turntable yet... that will be another first time.

That's intersesting what you said about the longest distance being the no delay channel. For me that would be the sub @ 15' followed by the center @ 11', mains 10' surounds @ 9 & 10'. I'm going to play with that sub distance. But man it's sweet and this is only upper mid-fi - damn.