Car Audio Speaker Question

Hey guys. I thought while I am waiting for my 950 I would troubleshoot a speaker issue in my ride. I have Mb Quarts PCE 216s in my Trailblazer and I just recently added Kicker tweeters in the dash to improve the forward soundstage since the Trailblazers speakers are set so low. At first they sounded really nice but now they are buzzing like crazy. I hear so much distortion I just want to remove them entirely. What causes this ? Is it fixable? Also I notice that my radio does not pick up stations well now at all. Lots of static. I think maybe my car audio shop messed this one up.

mb quarts are VERY power hungry,unless you have an outboard amp they will not perform well,you are just sucking the life out of your radio!the combo(with the tweeters)probably dropped the load so low the head unit just doesn't want to perform.

I have an Alpine F540 4 channel amp running all but the sub (of course). I thought that would be plenty. Maybe just not enough for the tweets also?

alpine should be enough,try disconnecting the tweeters see how it sounds,one setup i had,had aftermarket tweeters up high to raise the soundstage,did more harm than good,had them parallelled with infinity tweeters on the infinity x-over,ended up causing some load problem and i smoked all the front right highs!

Wait, are you running both the MB Q tweets AND the kicker tweets? That's a lot of highs. How are these hooked up? Which speaker is distorting? Kicker, MB Q, both? For the radio, I imagine you have an aftermarket deck? Make sure the power antenae wire is connected (a blue wire). Sometimes installers won't connect it for some silly reason or another.

Hi JT. Just the Kickers are distorting . I do have an aftermarket Pioneer. I guess I will just have to schlep down to the shop and have them take 'em out and check the wire. My car guy hooked them up to the front MB Quarts I am not exactly sure how ???

Have them show you exactly what they did. You want to know where the Kicker tweeters are wired to in particular. They should be able to show you with the door panel off. Namely, if the Kicker tweeters are hooked to the MBQ crossover or to their own spot on the amp. It should be the second way. I'm not sure if I can actually solve anyting, but we can sure try.

I'm not a fan of adding additional tweeters to a setup, expecially tweeters that are not identical to (let alone a different brand entirely) the main set being used. You wouldn't do that with your HT now, would you?

Since the 216's are components, you can take the MBQ tweeter and put them up in the A-pillar or dash, away from the mid if you like. I prefer to have them together, even though the stage may be a little low, but many people do like the height. It's personal preference. I think you'd be much better off going this route. Try to find a spot where the distance from the mid to you and the distance from that tweeter to you are the same and it should help minimize the difference.

Spoke to the car guy yesterday and I asked if the extra tweets were too much . He told me that they really should not draw any more from the amp???? I am taking it in on Thursday. They did sound REALLY good at first. This has been a gradual deterioration and buzz build up. I really like the silk domes of the kickers. It helps take some edge off the MB Quarts.

It's not that it's too much for the amp. He's right in that they would draw very little extra power. If he wired them in parallel or series with the MBQ tweeters into the crossover it could very easily screw with the crossover.

Oh, I see .Sorry. I didn't get it. So how should he wire them differently assuming he did so in parallel with the Quarts?

I think they ought to get their own set of channels from an amp. They'd need a HP crossover too. Not sure if the amp or HU would have that on it.

What I really think you want to try is moving the MBQ tweeters up there. You might not even have to run new wires. Just pluck them from their current location and put them where the Kickers were. Where exactly are they now? Both sets, that is. I don't know where stock locations are for you. The tweeter may not be right on the mid. It could be up higher in the door. Usually stock tweeter locations are terrible.

most alpine amps(sub amps excluded) have selectable hi or lo pass x-overs(and adjustable) for front and rear but i believe you are using all 4 channels now,right?

my neighbor had an aftermarket pioneer head unit that was totally configurable with selectable high pass for front and rear,assuming a sub was being run,now the cool(and strange) thing was the hi pass only affected the speaker level out!
all preamp outputs were automatically high passed from where the sub was lo passed.hard to put into words but read this several times to understand what i'm saying.

if that is the case with your pioneer then you could easily drive the kickers with the head unit(assuming it has an internal amp)

I checked on the amp and it does have a crossover, but I don't know if you can adjust it for the front and rear independently. Alpine doesn't just let you see the manual. :rolleyes:

jt

alpine changed it's site!used to be able to download ALL manuals.

sent you 2 pm's with links to specs and pics.(avoid copyright infringement, u know!)

Yeah, I know. I remember being able to do that awhile ago. I was so annoyed when trying to help other people out before and found that they switched. Maybe it was just too much for their site. I saw the specs and the pics. The reason I was hoping for the manual is that it can better explain how things work. The pics aren't quite detailed enough to see. Oh well, the main thing right now is to determine how the front stage is connected together. He may even have rear speakers on the rear channel already. Haven't heard anything either way on that.

kinda hard to help when the topic starter ain't here,huh?your suggestion of the mb tweeters being raised is the best and most logical solution(easiest also)

wing
are you running speakers in all door(4)?
or channels bridged in front door?
you mention a sub,does it have it's own amp?

we're trying to get the setup right first,JT trust me the 540 has separate x-overs for front and rear. I THINK we know the problem already(since my old setup with tweets paralleled with infiniti x overs,smoked)but we need all the help so you can go back to the shop totally armed with info,hell,let them tell you what they want to do to fix it,come back,tell us and see if it computes,have 'em put it paper & read it as they wrote it,jt knoes a bit about car audio,i know a bit,my buddy's a pro installer,don't let them blow smoke(you know where)
we'll get cha figured out!

njoy til tommorrow past bedtime (way late)

I have speakers in all 4 doors and the sub has its own amp. An Alpine MRD M301 I think. The head unit is a Pioneer DEH-P760. So, when I get there tomorrow I say 'are the Kickers crossed over parallel to the MBQ's and if so let's try ________?' (Enter Gene Rayburn )

I did pose the option of moving the MB Tweets up there and he told me to just let him check out the Kickers first before we do that. I was also having the problem of the headlights causing a slight buzz in the speakers (apart from the other buzz).

You want to know how the Kickers are wired up. With speakers in the rear I'd guess that he wired them in with the MB Q tweeters on the crossover. I don't think he should do that. You'll want to understand exactly how everything is wired up right now. Then you can start to understand what other options will give you. The biggest part of that (at the moment) is the Kickers because they are the problem and they are being forced into a set that wasn't meant to incorporate them.

I don't want to be negative towards the guy, but if he sold you the Kickers, of course he wants you to keep them in and use them. I think you should exhaust options using the MB Q's only first, and then look at other things. Take the Kickers out and see what you can do with the MB Q's first.

If the Kickers cover up the sound of MB Q tweets, then maybe switch in the Kickers for the MB Qs. There is no point in keeping in a component that doesn't sound good or right. It won't be quite what the crossover was designed to work with, but it should be far closer than having a pair of mismatched tweeters wired up to it. Especially within a confined space like a car, keep things as simple as possible.

Headlights are causing a buzz too? Smells like a possible grounding issue.

Can I take you guys with me? The main reason I put in the Kickers was to soften the harshness of the titanium tweets on the MBQs and raise my soundstage.

I am going to make a copy of this forum and take it with me for notes. Home theater I have a pretty good grasp of but car audio..not so much. At least I know what to ask and look for now. Thanks guys for all your help. I will know more tomorrow.

Well a lot of this stuff actual goes into both. It's typically more difficult to get an equally good sounding system in the car. That and a few things like power wiring become more of a concern.

Install more speakers to soften the harshness of another? Do you press the brake to slow the acceleration of your vehicle while keeping the accelerator planted to the floor? :p

Ha....makes about as much sense. It seemed like a good idea at the time . :p

most good component speaker systems have a tweeter attenuator in the
x-over,usually:-3db ,0,+3db
some use a 3 position switch some you have to open up and move a jumper,your owners manual would tell you,it might be that simple to clean up the quartz,i've never heard "harsh" quartz.usually very smooth and balanced!

i've never heard of "headlights causing a buzz" now before i upgraded my electrical my headlights would dim....

oh and ask your installer for some credentials, if he has them he won't be offended!

I've heard maybe a little bright or harsh, but that was always at higher volumes. At normal listening it was relative to whatever other speaker was being demoed at the time. Never just outright harsh or too harsh. I think that applied to any line they have.

Yes, look into the attenuation more. You might see numbers like 0, 3 and 6, but basically 3 points that are about 3 db apart. Definitely play with that some. It can be quite surprising how much it can help to drop the tweeters by a few db. I tried to download the manual, but the one on the MBQ site is in German. Name one language I don't know. :rolleyes: :p

here we go:

Crossovers

Selectable Tweeter Output Level: Each crossover allows you to select the tweeter output level according to system requirements and personal preference. The tweeter level may be set to "-6 dB", "-4 dB", "-2 dB", or "0 dB".

Tweeter Protection: A light bulb is incorporated into the crossover to extend the life of the tweeter by protecting it against overloading. This element automatically absorbs excess energy (lighting the bulb) and allows continuous operation of the tweeter even at extreme volumes.

2-Way Crossover Network: Each crossover features a 12 dB/octave, 4.2 kHz high-pass filter for the tweeters and a 12 dB/octave, 4.2 kHz low-pass filter for the woofers.

ooops ,that's for the rce-216

i'll get the pce-216......

Selectable Tweeter Output Level: Each crossover allows you to select the tweeter output level according to system requirements and personal preference. The tweeter level may be set to "-6 dB", "-4.5 dB", "-3 dB", "-1.5 dB", or "0 dB".

Tweeter Protection: A light bulb is incorporated into the crossover to extend the life of the tweeter by protecting it against overloading. This element automatically absorbs excess energy (lighting the bulb) and allows continuous operation of the tweeter even at extreme volumes.

2-Way Crossover Network: Each crossover features a 12 dB/octave, 2.5 kHz high-pass filter for the tweeters and a 12 dB/octave, 2.5 kHz low-pass filter for the woofers.


even more flexibility!

jt

sent u a pm with a link to the alpine mrv-540 owners manual

just gotta know where to look!(i cheat)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JT Clark:
[QB] You want to know how the Kickers are wired up. With speakers in the rear I'd guess that he wired them in with the MB Q tweeters on the crossover. I don't think he should do that. You'll want to understand exactly how everything is wired up right now.

and if he wired the kickers off of the pioneer with the cheesy high pass capacitor,you could be clipping the head unit by the time the alpine is getting useable voltage.

Somebody's been busy. I don't think the tweeters (or any of the speakers really) would be best suited by being wired to the head unit.

i agree,but we are talking about s.florida,being as i lived in daytona(painting cars) i saw alot of hacked up stereos!

and last night i was slacking(bud light) so i had to play catch-up before it got too late tonite!

Ah yes....... and especially in Miami Dade County. I am SO printing this thread.

so it's thursday, wing...how'd it go?

Wouldn't you know he called me and said he had to go out of town so I have to wait until next Thursday. You guys got him running scared .

bummer!i wanted to hear the verdict.(i guess bummer 4 u 2,u have to listen 2 it)

In the meantime, can you possibly remove the Kickers yourself? From what you've said, it seems that the system was working fine without them, just not quite to your preference.

i was gonna suggest that,but,if i installed a system and somebody complained(unlikely but possible) and took it upon themselves to "fix" it i wouldn't touch it! wing ,just be patient!

give them a chance to make it right.

I only suggested that because it sounds like it's getting worse. I would not suggest playing with the ground wires as that is something which should be done with the installer present. However, if he can hook up a home theater system I do believe he should be more than capable of undoing a set of tweeters and covering the wire ends to prevent a short. This should help the setup from killing itself from the most likely source of trouble. I think he's also more than capable of making the decision of whether or not to do this if the tweeters are installed a bit more complex than I seem to be imagining at the moment. If he can't figure out how to get the thing off the dash and remove the wires, then yeah, leave it alone.

If I installed a system for someone and it had a problem that was getting worse, I would certainly set the guy up with someone who could help asap if I couldn't get to it myself, especially if he had scheduled time to come in.

"If I installed a system for someone and it had a problem that was getting worse, I would certainly set the guy up with someone who could help asap if I couldn't get to it myself, especially if he had scheduled time to come in."

i myself would not have blown him off after scheduling him,if an emergency came up i would have a co-worker take care of him.

not to say anybody is not capable of diconnecting a pair of tweeters,as that is very simple,taking apart the interior of a car(or truck) is another story!

if an installed system has been tampered with after leaving the shop,it is very easy to play the blame game!now the installer has an out,"i didn't do that,you must have !!!!!! it up!"

another thing is "the headlights are causing a buzz"
answer:"aren't you a professional installer?make it go away!"

come on , this sounds like a half-!!!!! attempt by an amateur installer!

leave it alone,don't turn it on,make them stand behind it.


joe

Welcome to Miami. It really is very difficult to get anyone competent these days. Even worse, this guy was recommended by a friend of mine.

i'm sorry ,from all that appreciate music,that would claim to install a system,that could not!

i feel for you,hope you can make it right!

wing,tommorow's thursday.look forward to hearing all about it,let us know!

joe

The installer is not back from out of town yet. It's a good thing I am not in a hurry here (and have no life )

i know what you mean,spent all winter on unemployment,painted my truck,my truck stereo is functional(and LOUD) but in shambles(as is my home tunes),never did my interior,never did the jambs,never flamed it,i'm a loser!!!

did score an excellent job with PETERBILT so i'm trying to get a life back!

they say good things come to those who wait and it seems to be true.i've never liked waiting though,i've always had to go make it happen and it never worked out.this time ,on a fluke,it came to me and looks like it will work!

hope your waiting pans out!

joe

So what's going on? Time for a new shop/installer?

I have so had to put that on the back burner. The last couple of weeks have been nuts but I still plan on getting over there when I can.