The Great DSP Debate

The Outlaws would like to invite you to become part of our design team! Since we’re building these products for your enjoyment, we would like to offer you the opportunity to give us a “thumbs up” or a “thumbs down” on music DSPs for the Model 950!

The main issue; with the introduction of Dolby Pro-Logic II (which will be fully implemented in the Model 950), there is a raging debate about including other DSP modes (i.e. “Concert”, “Jazz Club”, “Stadium”, “Men’s Room”, etc). Some of you find these modes interesting and pleasant, others hate them with a passion. We can choose to include them or exclude them in the 950. Cost is not an issue here. To include these modes, there are only a few extra lines of trigger code. What is an issue is additional complexity to all of the choices in a menu driven format. So we thought we would leave the final decision up to our customers. We need your vote…”thumbs up” or “thumbs down”, and if you feel inclined, you may discuss the reasons for your opinion.

As an incentive to participate in this poll, we will have a random drawing for all participants. The winner will receive a Model 950! The cleverness of your reason will not count. The only thing that is important is that you vote “Yea” or “Nay”. This contest will end July 5, 2001.

To join our team with a chance to win, post your opinion in the “The Great DSP Debate” thread below.

Now for the legal stuff:

We cannot be responsible for entries that are sent by you, but not received by our server and posted on the proper area of our web site. (Please remember that the user name and password issued for the Saloon is CASE SENSITIVE, and that’s the reason why some entries to our first two contests did not make it to the board.) All entries must be posted to the Outlaw Saloon no later than 11:59 PDT, July 5, 2001. Outlaw employees, vendors and their families are not eligible. Only one entry per participant is allowed.

I am all for DPL-II but would vote thumbs down on other DSP's. If the 1050 had DPL-II I would own one.

Thumbs down on the extra DSP modes.

I think I used one or two of them when I got my first A/V receiver, just to see what they sounded like. Since then, I've never used them. They just clutter up the menus and make it harder to find what I'm looking for.

(Many thanks to Outlaw for asking us what we want instead of telling us what we'll get.)

Thumbs down. The only DSP I use on my current receiver is "video game", and I could live without it.

Thumbs down. I never use DSPs.

I vote NO for useless DSP modes. However, if they are free how bout these 2
1. ping pong the sound ping pongs between left and right speakers with an occaisional miss going to the surrounds.
2. Darth sound Eliminate the highs and distort everything else
I do expect credit if you use these!
Zeltar

I also vote no for DSP modes. I never use them.

Hello Scott!
I am new to this forum but NOT to Outlaw as I own S/N 117 of the 1050 line. In the time, which has been a while , that I have had this fine unit, I have used DSP's twice, both were during my owners manual reading session when I first got my unit.

I vote NO for DSPs!!

Have a Good One!

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[This message has been edited by Todd Barattini (edited June 17, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Todd Barattini (edited June 17, 2001).]

Another thumbs down. Most consumers won't miss the extra DSP modes; they tend to give the impression that the manufacturer is not being "honest" about the capabilities of the gear, something that Outlaws need not do. I don't know of anyone who uses them.
Prologic II should definitely be included.

Can't see why not! If it doesn't increase the cost, I'm sure I would enjoy playing with the DSP settings on older material.

A definite YEA vote here.

I vote no. I use the 1050 strictly for movies. DSP's are totally useless.

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WakerUpper

I vote no DSP's other then PLII. I've never used a DSP mode on any pre amp or receiver I've owned. I would prefer that we could just leave it set to auto decode all incoming material for each channel. ie on all inputs other then CD I'd have it set to decode 2 channel into PLII and 5.1 material into either DTS or DD which ever is present. The CD input I woudl just leave on analog bypass.

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The Pratt Home Theater and Custom Pronto programming page

The sound always ends up sounding rather unatural, and therefore I do not use them, although I am interested in dplII. I vote no to dsp's.

Nay.

I consider outlaw products to be purpose-built for HT. Please leave the sillier (sp?)bells & whistles to the mass-market manufacturers.

The only DSP I ever use is the "Phantom" mode one ... allows me to feed my stereo CD's to both the front and rear speaker pairs (and since mine are all identical, it just sounds nice! ). I can easily live without it for the sake of simplicity and reliability.

Vote: Dump the DSP's

Do you still have my mailing address or do you need it again to ship the 950 to me?


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pat----

home: psklenar@home.com ... office: psklenar@uhc.com

no home page yet, so ...
Entertainment Center ---==*==--- DVD Collection

Nay, I would prefer as few bells and whistles as possible.

I've never used any of the DSP modes on my existing setup, so I don't really see the point of including this. NAY!

NAY!
I also have little use for DSPs. Except for one. I like to use five channel stereo for Television and when I listen to the FM. I've never liked using Prologic for TV and using five channel stereo gives me a very neutral soundfield which works for me. As far as FM. I usually listen to FM when I'm on the web and five channel fills the room just right.

[This message has been edited by Darrel McBane (edited June 17, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Darrel McBane (edited July 02, 2001).]

I would vote NAY. I've had other A/V units and the DSP modes are amusing but not much use for home theater. The only one that I've ever heard that was unique was Sony's "church" setting. Add that to the early Beatles songs on CD and you have the Capitol LP's sound! Thanks.

Big *No* on the special DSP's.

Though 5 or 7 stereo would be a nice addition. And very useful for parties.

Stephen

Nay,

I believe DSPs to be a thing of the past... before the DD and DTS formats become so prominent and dominant. DD EX and DTS ES are excellent competing formats that will demand all or the attention of the user.

On the other hand, Denon and several other manufacturers include 5 channel stereo, which I will use frequently for leisure TV watching and MP3 listening for chores around the house. 5 channel stereo, Logic 7, and other's ideas of filling every speaker with no added sound processing is a good thing, IMO

Jeremy...a new guy to Outlaw, but an old guy to Home Theater...I've been an on-line researcher of home theater for a little over a year, and I've been reading quite a bit about "Outlaw"...really looking forward to the release of this pre/pro, should be an exciting time for Home Theater enthusiasts

Thanks

Seeing as the 950 will be able to derive six (what about those who are running 5 or 7?) discrete channels from Dolby Digital, DTS sound-tracks, stereo and matrix sound tracks, I really don't see a need for any DSPs.

Why not? I can avoid them if I don't want to use them. And if people are worried about menu "complexity" perhaps they shouldn't be going the separates route anyway.





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RAF

My HT (latest update 02/05/01)

I'm new to this forum and don't (as of yet) own any Outlaw products. In my opinion, it's a nay also. I can't recall once in the last 15 years that I've actually used any of those DSP modes. Nix 'em and make it easier to use. Thanks for the opportunity to make your equipment 'what the user wants'.

No DSP except surround mode from stereo & mono material. But I'd like to have the ability to have some form of memory for equalization settings: eg I think that most TV material needs a louder center channel (in surround) than movies.

In my experience, I never use dsp's. The computer programs (algorithyms whatever) just have never been able to make me think the processed sound is better then the "natural" way it was meant to be played. I hope DPL II changes that, but I have not had a listen yet so I can't comment.

Yay,

first of all you can add 1000 dsp and a bunch of other useless feature and not clutter up the user inteface if its well designed.

-adding dsp will not degrade performance of the pre/pro. they are just adding more code to the chip.

ideally i would like to see a usb port on the pre/pro that allows me to choose wich dsp modes i like to have on the pre/pro.

of course I will take a flexible bass management system similar to the b&k 307 and maybe even 5 band parametric eq over any dsp mode.

My real answer would be "Don't Care". But to avoid any chance of being disqualified by not giving a legal answer, I'll say "yea". I'll never use them, but as long as they don't bother me, why not put them in?

No. My Yamaha has them and I never use them.

Yes on the Dolby Pro-Logic II.

Nay on the other DSP modes. Never use them.

[This message has been edited by Barr Plexico (edited June 17, 2001).]

Yay.

I don't use them but I would hate to see you lose customers who may feel the 950 is not a full featured pre-pro.

[This message has been edited by Ron Eastman (edited June 17, 2001).]

I say Yea.

The newness of DSPs wear off quickly, but if cost is no factor, I say why not.

The only DSP-music mode that I would like to see would be an "Ambience Recovery" mode. I remember reading about this a while back, but I don't recall the specifics...I think this is where you take the L-R and R-L info to feed the rear channels, to expand the depth/soundstage a bit.

In any case, keep the DSP modes to a minimum of usable ones.

No to DSP modes. I have never met anyone who uses them.

Yes to DPLII!!

Yes to comprehensive bass mgmt.

The most important addition would be something comparable to Lexicon's Logic 7.

Hurry up and get this thing to market!!

Tom

As long as all official Dolby ProLogic II and DTS Neo:6 function modes are allowed for all 2 channel source material, I'd say...

Thumbs DOWN on extraneous DSP effects modes like Jazz Club, Church, Stadium, etc. I never use them and they take up processing space.

Just don't get rid of any necessary 7.1 modes.

Very flexible bass management for each of the 7.1 speaker channels with adjustable slopes and cross-overs is much more important to me than cruddy and phoney DSP effects.

Put the time and effort into getting everything else right (even the user interface) and we'll be happy little rustlers!

Dan


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Down with the MPAA!!



[This message has been edited by Dan Hitchman (edited June 17, 2001).]

I say No way. I never Use them.

Thanks
Kevin C.

If they do not take the place of something else and do not decrease the performance of the unit, and do not cost any extra, then I don't mind if you include them for those folks that like them. I, however, will never use the other DSPs.

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Take Care,
merc

With the inclusion of DPL II I'm going to have to say:

NAY...

to additional soundfields that I can never seem to find a practical use for.

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Ken

No. I never use them.

Parker

Yah sure I'll use the DSP modes! *pthbtbtbtb*

That's a definite vote for "no". :-)

A big Thumbs Down to DSP's.

I don't use anything but stereo or regular surround.

A re-EQ feature might not be such a bad idea though.

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William

I say no.

Stefan Antwarg

Yes to DPL and a BIG NO to other DSPs

Definite no to DSP.

I currently own a processor that is unbelievable complex (Sony 9000es) and although it has quite useful modes, I would rather not bother with the idiotic music modes.

Let me explain; I've owned a lot of equipment with useless, complex modes.

I used to own a simple Technics SH-AC500D decoder that had excellent performance for its price. No modes at all (not even RE-EQ!) and it was a breathe of fresh air (I could memorise the operating procedures).

My current Sony 9000es needs it's DSP modes to 'Virtualise' the 6.1 necessary for new materiel - it is a 5.1 system with extremely powerful DSP's (three SHARC devices).

I believe a system that is as relatively complex as the Outlaw 950 should have 'one' good music DSP mode (the Outlaw 6.1 Surround) plus DPL2.

And no movie DSP modes except to boost the virtual/phantom modes for people who do not have a 6.1 system, esp. rear center.

T.

A big NO on the extra DSP's.

Although, 5-7 channel stereo would be a good addition (The only DSP I ever use, and only when I want to just fill the room with sound for low level listening).

I vote no for dsp's except:

A six-axis or logic 7 type dsp. I will not buy a preamp that does not have this. I listen to six-axis for all formats and even prefer it to DTS or AC3 for some material especially music dvd's. I have not heard PL 2 so I can't comment on it.

Please Please Please include logic 7 or six-axis type surround. Thanks

I vote yea. I have many DSP's on my Yamaha, and while I don't like most of them I do like a few.

Nay!

I vote NO to DSP modes because I never use them.

DSP modes are best left for Joe Blows that think Best Buy and Circuit City have the best gear! Not to mention, DSP's add unfaithful colorization.

NAY

[This message has been edited by Shawn Pilichis (edited June 17, 2001).]

No to DSP and have movie coaxial digital inputs.

Nay, I do not think that they are needed.

Jeff Aguilar

NAY. I can't remember the last time I used one of those DSP modes that adds an unnecessary delay or echo to the original signal.

Nay to music DSP modes. If you have any DSP modes available for movies, then Yes to those. Cinema Re-EQ as a minimum for movie modes I would say.

Todd

Nay, except for Cinema ReQ.

yes for dpII but a thumbs down for dsp's. i mainly watch dvd movies.

Yes to DSP's. Since they do not degrade audio performance they are OK. Sometimes when I have had lots to drink and want to be silly I like playing with them, but other than that I doubt I would never use them. Just give them thee own little sub menu. Do not include them in the dts,dd, dplII... menu.

Thumbs Down. These are an approximation at best and as such are usless

Mark

I would have to say NO to the extra DSP modes. I have never used them on any receiver I've owned. Not even sure if I would use DPLII. Just my .02.

Steve T.

No DSP modes for me. I find I never use them. Put the money elsewhere.,,,,,WhoHoo,,first Outlaw post, and hopefully soon, a first time outlaw owner as soon as that pre-pro hits the streets

[This message has been edited by MarkO (edited June 17, 2001).]

My vote is "Yea"

The reason is: I think it will help you sell more units, some people really like dsp's, if you don't just don't use them.

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Trevor

Nay!

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Don

I don't use DSPs, therefore leave them out.

I would not find any use for any DSP modes. I vote NO.

I vote no on DSP.I used to own a Yamaha RX-V2092 and I hardly ever used the ones available on that unit.Stick with the basics which is all anybody needs.

Never have used the ones I've had. Heck, it's been tough enough getting past the 2-channel hurdle
Tim

I vote nay.

I use "Small hall" to listen to music now as it puts a little information into the surround speakers and adds depth to the music without distorting it. After I get your new pre/pro (please hurry!) I'm sure that I will use DPL II instead. However, I never complain about things offered that I don't use--and it may help you sell more units. I vote YEA.

It all depends.

YES if there will be no additional cost. You might as well have them if can.

NO if there will be an additional cost. If there will be an additional cost then its not worth it, I never use DSP modes.

I vote NAY for the DSPs.

nay, thumbs down.

to me, dsp's are not passionatly hated, just not used.

only possible thought i have is added sale value, the masses like extra features. 'course the masses havent discovered outlaw yet......

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'Till next time,
Rich (The kite guy)

I vote YES.

Put them off in a sub-menu so they don't interfere with normal usage, but put them there. You never know when someone might have a special situation where a DSP mode is actually useful. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

Plus, DSP modes impress JoBlows, you might sell a couple more units just because they are a check-list item.

NO to useless DSPs. Music should be listened as it is; not edited neither by content or sound colour.

NAY. Except for DPL2 and 5/7 channel stereo.

Although I my self do not use any of the DSP's available on receivers/pre-pros there may be others who enjoy them. It is for this reason ( and since they do not cost anything extra) That they should be included...) Perhaps you could included a service menu which allows you to select which DSP's show up. That way it could be user selectable...

As for DPL II absolutely include it!

If adding DSP's do not increase the price or hurt the performance then go ahead and add a few. Like stadium, jazz, night club, matrix.

If they do not hurt anything then add them. For those of you, who do not like them, then don't use them. For us who do, it would be great.

Yes include them. I used my Lexicons DSP quite often, for pleasent change. Plus since your not including THX ES discrete, this can be used as a supplement.

DSP's are about the most useless things on any receiver/processor. It seems the higher up the food chain you go (marantz sr14ex, sr18ex, B&K 307, etc) the less DSPs there are. Great gimic for sony or JVC. A big NAY!

Thumbs down.

I don't find DSPs to be of any sonic benefit. They just clutter up the interface.

No to including extra DSP modes on the 950.

No DSP modes. Who uses those ?

I say Nay!!

Just more modes to get into when you don't want it ( or know it!). Just keep it simple for me.

Joe

No thanks to the DSP modes. I never use them and it's just another option that will cause people to become confused. DPL II is excellent and I feel there is no need for anything further.

thumbs down on DSP's

Yea. Why not, if it doesn't disturb anything else who cares.

I would say that they should be included although I would probably never use the nor would most people, but I would like the option just in case and I don't think that they would clutter up any menus.
Brandon

I vote NAY.

I've listened to each of them on my 1050 (and other past receivers) and can't stand their sound for an extended period of time.

It's either 2 channel sound for music or "surround" mode for movies.

Alfer

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Check out my HT website: The Enormodome

Join Club Enormodome

I say yes to the DSP modes. If it's not going to cost anymore then why not add them. I own a Yamaha receiver that has a multitude of DSP modes. I rarely use them for music but I love the different Theater modes and use the different modes depending on the type of movie I'm watching. My interface is not 'cluttered' at all. In fact, all of the modes are selectable from the front panel or through via the remote control. Just make sure that if you use DSP modes that you make their functions available directly instead of toggling.

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"Nevah underestimate the powah of the Dahk Shyde.."

I vote "Yes" for additional DSP modes. No extra cost, some will use them and some won't. Every room is different so some modes will sound great in some rooms and phony in others. More user choices is always better.

A No vote from me.

I have never used the DSPs on any of my other A/V receivers, so it seems a waste. Keep It Simple.

I never use DSP modes. If they will take extra space on the chip that can be used for future upgradeability, that's a double no...

Thumbs up. I am not fond of then as abything moew than a fun gadget to play with from time to time, but their presence does not take away from anything, except to annoy a few grouchy folks, but they add ti the experience of a few people who really like them.

Regards,

C.E. Tekell

Yes to DSPs, but limit them to a useful set. I never use any of the DSPs on my Yamaha receiver. The gimmicky processing and added reverb just don't sound realistic. The only DSPs that I would be interested in are 5/7 channel stereo with a derived center, similar to Lexicon's Party mode, and a DSP mode to provide some derived ambience from old mono movies. I'm planning to replace the Yamaha with separates in the near future. Features such as these may make the decision easier

Keep it Simple Outlaws. I vote no to complexity. Rarely do I use the DSP's on my Elite receiver. Looking forward to the 950 coming out.

Thumbs Down. DSP doesnt fit your target market

Yes.

Cost is stated as not an issue. The inclusion of DSP modes will not adversely affect the sound quality of the piece. It is only smart business to design a product that will be useful and appeal to the widest market. If DSP features help sell a good product, and thus make a good company more successful, then why should anyone complain?

Good luck to Outlaw (and me, I'd like to try one of these).

Nay on the DSP modes. I've never found any of them useful.

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========
= Phil =
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Thumbs down on DSP

I say nay to the DSP modes.

I was going to say yes, but then I remembered - no feature is ever free. And I'd rather the Outlaws work on getting the things that really matter - sound quality, reliability and value done right than spending even a second thinking about how to fit a bunch of random DSP modes into the menus (or having to explain them in the docs, QA that they're working as designed, etc).

So I vote - skip 'em. The product sounds like it'll be great enough already without them.

I vote yea. What could it hurt.

I don't what what is currently called DSPs (or the pregenerated by the manufacturers) but would like one in the form of a parametric equalizer (now this is what I call DSP) so I can compensate for room mode.

Multi-channel stereo mode is ok for warming up the amp channels and breaking in rears but to me aren't very necessary.

Yes.
1) at least 5/7 channel stereo, and some Logic7/Trifield type processing for 2 channel sources;
2) I never used DSP modes on my old Pioneer;
nowdays from time to time listening to some crappy movie I will take advantage of Widescreen/rock/stadium modes - and sometimes it helps with so-so mixes from CD.

_zjt

I vote yes. It shouldn't hurt, and I can choose not to use them if they are useless to me. As long as I don't have to cycle through them on the remote when selecting something else.

Doug

Please please please do not waste your time with silly DSP modes. They are useless.

No for the DSPs since I never use them.

I'd have to say "no" as I've never been very impressed with any of the dsp's on any receivers I've owned in the past.

I have to say NAY. Never did find any use for those DSP modes.

Nay to DSPs!

I would say no if it is only about "concert" and "Stadium". But do not forget that Logic 7 is a DSP too, and that there are quite nice things to do with a DSP as Sony can prove, take the center enlargement for example.
So if all you want to share is some DSP mode from the beginning times of programming, leave if. If you can do better, show us.

If your new pre-pro has 5-7 channel stereo I'll buy one. If not, I'll continue to be stuck using a Denon receiver (no flexible bass management) as a pre-pro for my Model 750 amp. I don't use other DSP's at all, but I can't live without 5 channel stereo!

Although 5-ch stereo is more of an anti-DSP than a DSP, I guess that's a qualified "yes".

Thanks for asking.:-)

[This message has been edited by bigwally (edited June 18, 2001).]

i would say yea. though i would probably never use them. i like to have options. and if they were there i would probably try them once then never use them. but the fact that there would be no additional cost, would make me say yes. i can always not use them. that's my option.

[This message has been edited by arduous1 (edited June 19, 2001).]

I'm a purist! Thumbs down! Give me just the real deal...anxiously awaiting the new pre/pro! I can't wait to become an "Outlaw!"

E

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The Norwegian A/V Nut!

Nay on Church, Hall, etc.

I like 5 or more channel stereo feature but wouldn't consider it a DSP mode. I do use the THX settings and occasionaly the "night" mode to increase dialog volume on my integra but none of the church,hall etc modes.

Good luck,

Art

I vote "no" as well.

Thought the 5 channel stereo mentioned in a lot of other posts would be well used I imagine.

Ill have a "NO" well done plz!!

I must agree with most of the folks here in saying NO to the other modes. When I listen to music or movies, I want to hear them as they were recorded, not through some artifical filters. If I want music to sound like I"m in a concert hall, I'll go to a concert.

Irwin

Yes to DPL II.
The only mode I ever used much in the past was Dolby 3, which I guess is just generating a center channel from stereo. However, I now wouldn't use such a mode unless I had identical speakers across the front. I've also used some Fosgate modes like Rock but those actually involved putting some front channel info into one of the surrounds, not just reverb. Since Fosgate designed DPL II, I figure whatever modes came with that are all I'm going to fool around with.

Don't really use 'em, don't really want 'em.

DPL II - absolutely

Other DSP modes - nope

Dave

DPLII - Yes, 5/7 channel stereo - Yes
I don't like to use any dsp's at all, thumbs down! BTW, my B&K AVR-307 doesn't have them either..

- Chip

I'm anxious to have DPL II. However, I never use them so I say NAY to DSP modes.

Thumbs down to DSP modes.

DPL II, multi channel (5 or 7) stereo.

BB

Thumbs down on the dsp.

However like some said.. a 5/7 ch stereo might be good to have. Of course if DPLII is a good as they say.. that might be unnessicary as well.

Thumbs Down

The 950 will be much classier without DSP's as they will only serve to cheapen it. Also, the uslessness of them will just be brought up in reviews.

Jeff

I vote nay. My Current receiver has them and I've tried them once in the last year. I find them to be gimmicky and completely unecssary.

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--Elliott--

I vote NO to DSP modes, and yes to DLP II

From my perspective I think I'd like them. NO not because I'd use them alot, but because I CAN use them.

Over the years I've had a few units that had really bad ambiance modes, but as I've gone higher up the scale(moderately so) DSP modes are something I see falling away.

Most people see that Denons inplementation of 4 or 5 channel stereo was the smartest thing to do.

Most people need a frame of reference when it comes to sounds. Being told that you are listening at Royal Albert Hall doesn't mean SQUAT without never having been there.

Brent L

YA. If its free and doesn't hinder performance then why not. There is always someone that could put use too them.

ht-addict

No to DSP modes, 5 and/or 7 channel stereo would be nice though.

Roger


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My ht: http://www.zing.com/album/?id=4292722449

No. I never use them on my receiver. Additionally, the lack of them would make menu navigation simpler for family members and friends who are not into HT as deeply as we are.

For my own personal preference I say no to DSP modes. I never use them and they just annoy me if I cycle through to get from stereo to DD or DTS.

If you do decide to include them, though, I would request that you at least include discrete codes so that we can click straight to stereo or DD/DTS from our remotes.

Tim

Thumbs down from me, but if it increases sales then by all means go for it!!!

Gregg

I believe the DSPs aren't worth any added complexity. Kinda like adding a spoiler on an Escort. Therefore, my vote is nay to the DSPs.

I vote NO for DSP modes which IMO, simply complicate the pre/pro's circuitry and remote. With the addition of DPL II, I find DSP modes all the more unnecessary.

No need for useless DSP's.

Chris

Having a lot of DSP's wouldn't keep me from buying the unit but unless they are great, I won't use them.

So basically Nay.

Vote "NO" to DSP's. Dolby Digital, Pro Logic II, and DTS ES are good enough for me.

Gregg

The only DSP modes that I will ever use are DPL-II and 5 channel stereo. Any others are not wanted.

DSP modes? No thanks.

Leave them out except for perhaps a simulated stereo mode for old mono movies.

I say no to DSPs. I never use them, and they just complicate the user interface.
Dean

dsp's...never liked them, most likely never will...keep it simple and elegant and just make sure it sounds and looks great and we will all be happy....nay to dsp....gavin

I actually used the "game" mode on my old sony when I had friends over to watch a game. It basically cranked up the rears and had the announcers come out everywhere. Made it so I could turn the volume down enough that we could all talk, but could all still hear the game as well.
I haven't had a game get together at my house since getting my 1050, so I haven't used the sound fields at all. So, I vote nay.
If you're reading, I have some ideas to make the unit more usable to SO's. My wife has tons of problems w/ the 1050. Feel free to e-mail me.

Jay St. Peter

Yes but only include 1. The Natural mode when functioning correctly does a better job than ProLogic (old, not II) in re-creating good center and ambience from bogus TV material. I use Natural, Stereo and Surround all the time, pending the material. The rest I never have tried.

S.

I thought about it some more and after trying out the included DSP's last night, I would lean more toward none than all. Maybe discrete IR code access would be a plus, but that could be a huge headache.

If only 1 or 2 are there or there is discrete access to the few individuals with programmable remotes who like certain ones, I say sure. Otherwise, nay for me.

S^2.


[This message has been edited by MrSandman (edited June 19, 2001).]

I think for marketing reasons you need a couple but I could always do without them since I never use them. You might want to include a 5 or 7 channel stereo mode though...

DPL II - yes!

other DSP's - NO!

never used them, never will.

DPL II of course, the only extra maybe Stadium, it can make a ballgame more interesting sometimes.

I'd like you to include DPL II, DTS, DD, and 5/7 stereo mode but that is it. Rarely, if ever, do I use DSP modes. Quite frankly, they are something I could easily live without and never miss them. Real HTers don't use DSP modes. DPL II isn't considered a DSP mode. This vote is definately a "no" for DSP modes.

[This message has been edited by BryanZ (edited June 20, 2001).]

I have never used a DSP since I have been in the hobby. Keep the menus simple.

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-----
Jeff Sheeler
eh!

Thumbs down. I like to check the difference in sound between the modes but invariably always revert back to the original. It is not a necessity but if it can be added at no cost then it should be incorporated.

If there's any chance that it'll increase Outlaw's sales, given that nothing else will suffer, I'd include them. I'm not likely to use them, though.

Lary

[This message has been edited by Lary Larson (edited June 18, 2001).]

Actually, if it will not degrade the performance of "more serious" DSPs, then why not? A dedicated processor should be feature rich.

No thanks on additional DSP modes. Even though you will be supplying discreet codes for the Pronto, I don't see any reasons for offering them on this type of equipment. People who like them usually are the types that shop only at Best Buy for recievers and they feel like they get more "bang for their buck" by having them available.

Please just say "NO" to DSP!

Thumbs down on other DSPs if DPLII works as advertized

I'll toss in my "no thanks" for the "extra" DSP modes. I never used them on my Yamaha, and I haven't used them on my 1050.

If they are included, it'd be good for the interface to keep them somewhat "out of the way" so you don't need to stumble past them to get to something else.

REVISED: I still don't want the extra DSP modes (I'm thinking of DPLII as a separate issue, that is very valuable), and I'd really like not having to skip through them to get from 2-channel to DPLII or the DD/DTS surround mode and back to 2-channel. At the same time, though, there may be a real danger to leaving them out entirely -- complete omission may be a weakness in some consumers' and reviewers' eyes. As some others have said here, a reviewer (or a consumer) very often may have a checklist of "standard" options that includes DSP modes. I'd hate to see Outlaw lose business because they aren't there. I'd also prefer to be able to completely forget they're there if I don't want to use them (perhaps a separate category/control for them?).


[This message has been edited by gonk (edited June 20, 2001).]

Thumbs Up to dsp's. It's better to have than not.

I vote NO for DSP modes. DPLII is worth including, but after that, nothing is necessary besides a nice two channel analog pass through.

DPL II is necessary, but DSP's are not.

I vote for YES. I watch alot of sports on channels which broadcast in either DPL, stereo, or mono. I always listen to these in the DPL or a DSP for the stereo/mono broadcasts. I agree some DSP's are worthless while others are very useful. I believe DPL II will be used for all if DPL II is what it is cracked up to be.

Input, settings, level memories is also important on a pre/pro. I have up to 3 tv's on at any one time. When I switch between video/audio sources it is nice to have the last settings remembered. ie. DD for DVD input and associated settings, DPL II and settings for TV input, direct and settings for CD input, etc.

Other features I like:
Adjustable crossovers are nice.
Direct access to modes (DD, DPL, Hall, statium, etc).
Backlit remote.
Station channel or letters for tuner. not preset number.

That's all for now.
Thanks for letting me play,


------------------
MaxCast

I vote yea - why not if cost will not increase and will not impact the performance.

I vote Nay on the DSP's.

I have a Yamaha receiver with numerous DSP's. I have tried them all out and was not all that impressed.

I vote nay. Just include DPL II and 5 or 7 channel stereo. DSPs aren't needed.

Thanks.

Put me down as a YES to DSPs.

We have a number of TV stations in this area that are STILL broadcasting in mono so anything that would make mono sound better would be appreciated. Sporting events in mono are very dull.

I have used "Live" and "Concert Hall" for stereo signals without DPL encoding. Unless DPL II is better I would continue to use those types of DSPs.

I'd say NO to DSPs in general (the typical Stadium, et al. reverb DSPs), but I would love to see a 5-7 channel stereo mode like Denon, Lexicon, etc.

KJP

I don't find the extra DSP modes of interest and would personally prefer them left off.

I'm all for DPL-II but you can leave out the other DSPs, IMHO.

------------------
Timing is Everything

I don't use them much, but since it is not a cost issue, then why not. I would hate to see the lack there of , to be used against the 950. I can the the magazine article now.... "but the 950 lacks the DSP modes that most of the competition has."

While I am pleased with the introduction of Dolby Pro-Logic II I could care less about other DSP modes. I currently have a number of additional modes on my Denon 3301 and I have never used any of them.

Yes, as long as it does not hurt performance or price.

DPLII Yes.

Other DSP modes no.

Take the resources (cost and space constraints, etc.) and apply them to other functions (although at the moment I can't think of anything you left out ).

Yea,
If it does not cost anything then what does it hurt to offer something that some might enjoy.

Sure I am likely to use mine in stereo mode for 2 channel music but I am open minded enough to allow others to enjoy it their way as well.

Max

I will agree with the majority here and say "Thumbs Down".

I used the DSP's on my receiver once and have not touched them since.

Paul.

DPL II is a must.

I was always under the impression that the other DSP modes didn't impact price or other performance aspects of the receiver. So why not? Never know when you need to expand that mono source.

No to DSP modes. I never use them.

I vote yes for the DSP modes simply because they are simple and inexpensive to implement.
Personally I don't use them but, what the heck.

Thumbs down for DSP modes.
You may include them, but once people get
used to DPL II, these DSP modes will never
be used again.

NO!

I never seriously used any DSP modes.
So don't bother!

DSP AYE,

1) But only if there are sufficient user adjustable parameters, like Lexicon's Cathedral, Jazz Club etc.
2) Best would be some sort of Logic7
extracted from DPL II perhaps.
3) An ambience recovery(crosstalk-cancelling) mode for plain 2-channel would be really nice.

The only DSP modes that I've seen praised often are 5 channel stereo and cinema re-equilization. Some people may use other DSP modes to watch sports, but for the most part, none of the generic DSP modes (Concert Hall, Jazz, Ghetto Blaster, Bose ) are used often. If it was possible to defeat the DSP modes, such as have a menu option to turn them on/off, and if they added no additional cost to the unit, I would say 'Yea'.

However, there is no way that the inclusion of additional DSP modes will not affect cost. As others have already stated, extra DSP modes will require additional work on menus, more QA to be sure the modes work properly, and increased support for users who can't get their units out of "Men's Room" mode. In keeping with the K.I.S.S. principle, I say 'Nay'.

Gary C

Hi guys.
I say why not. Since you already stated that it wouldn't affect the price in any way, I don't see the extra DSP's hurting anything by being there.
If you don't like them, don't use them.

And as far as cluttering up the menus, come on...we're all into this hobby so much that we're members of a manufacturer's forum...I think by now we know our way around menus.

THUMBS UP.


------------------
Andres
My Home Theater

Just say NO to DSP modes.

Never use them so why clutter things up.
Am, however, very interested in DPL2.
Steve

Count me as a NAY, very seldom use it now and on this caliber of equipment, I don't feel it is appropriate. Mike Hood

I vote yes for DSPs. I sometimes use the Jazz Club effect on my Yamaha RX-V1070.

It would be neat if you could downmix the effect for two channels, and then send it to the record-out jacks. I'd like to make recordings using the DSP effects for my truck, or for headphones.

thanks,

-- Jeff

The only fancy DSP mode I use (and occasionally at that) is Denon's 5-channel stereo, which is generally excellent.

A mode where the front and rears both played normal stereo would be a good alternative.

So overall, nay!

Even though I rarely use the artificial DSP modes much and seem to be in the minority in my opinion, if they don't otherwise detract for the overall product quality or add unecessary cost -- Why Not, it might come in handly when playing a PS-2 or something?

I vote Yea.

Two items however that are NOT negotiable are:
1) Multi-channel stereo modes 5.1, 6.1 and 7.1.

2) Phantom modes to simulate additional speakers over 5.1.

I would image many users purchasing this pre-amp for use with an older 5 channel amp and 5.1 speaker system. The phantom modes would allow some benefit from EX encoded until they budgedted for a new amp (model 770?) and/or additional speakers.

Thanks.

I vote for adding some new well thought out dsp modes. Forget the overly reverbant crap most receivers use. DPL2 is a must however. I think most people dislike dsp because of poor and gimicky sound. DSP isn't bad in and of itself.

I vote a loud "Nay." I have never made any real use of the DSP modes available to me with my current JVC (Just Very Crappy) receiver both because of how horrid they sound as well as how difficult it is to select one mode further down the list than another.

I always seem to overshoot the one mode I may (for some reason) be looking for and have to scroll through the whole list again. Since that initial experience, I have never gone back to the DSP modes.

I figure, keep the unit simple to use and build it to do what it does better than anyone else.

Just my $0.02

Yes, I think it would be a good idea to have at least two customizable DSP modes. One for multichannel stereo for parties. And an other to enhance the ambience of music performances.

Adam

Thumbs down!! No!
I never use the extra DSP modes.
Why process the material to make sound a certain way?
Most of the time Music or movie soudtracks are fine just they way they were intended to be heard..

no never liked them as they usually sound hookey

DSP: I guess it doesn't matter about them to me, becuase I never use them, but if you think it will sell more products for you then go ahead and make some more money!

It is great that the DPLII is incorporated
and
All I can think about adding is DTS-ES and you would be set!

Good luck and God bless!




------------------
In Him,
GH

DSP modes make music sound hollow. I say NO to DSP modes.

Unless you know of a select few, USEFUL, DSP modes, I say leave them out! I've never heard one I liked.

---Summary---
You should definitely include DSP modes. You'd be wise to limit them to modes that sound good and are user adjustable.

---Marketing---
Outlaw is not aimed exclusively at 2 channel fanatics who despise DSP modes on principal (though there seem to be a few on this forum).

All magazine reviewers mention whether a piece has DSP modes; some are dismissive, but why risk missing a check list item of a reviewer or potential customer? Your (higher priced) competition from Lexicon is known for DSP modes - if the comparison won't make you look bad, you MUST include DSP modes.

---I Like DSP. No, Really!---
Finally, I may be the first to publicly admit this, but I USE DSP MODES. I have a Yamaha DSP-A1, and it has a zillion modes, all extremely adjustable, some which make music sound like mud, but some which make the music absolutely come alive. The best way to demonstrate this is to find the right mode for the music, then turn jump to plain stereo in mid-track. Where did the depth and vibrancy go? The room suddenly got smaller! (Note: the Yamaha uses an additional 2 front speakers to recreate ceiling reflections). I listen to jazz, fusion, or Dave Matthews Band in a modified Roxy DSP mode. Eagles and James Taylor DVDs get the Concert Video mode (on top of DTS or Dolby Digital). Orchestral music gets straight stereo or a nearly reverb-free adjusted version of U.S. Hall 4. Most movies get 70MM Adventure 2 (on top of Dolby Digital or DTS) which really makes my smallish room sound like a bigger venue. Movies with dialog in the surrounds get straight Dolby Digital or DTS.

---Conclusion---
So, if you can provide good DSP modes, by all means do so. I'll use them. However, if the best you can do are non-adjustable "hall" and "stadium" modes equivalent to those on a $500 Sony receiver, then don't bother - just include DPII's music mode and DTS Neo:6 music mode and call it a day. In any case, make sure you include discrete codes for selecting specific modes. Offer an option to hide them in the menu for those who don't want to see them.

***And make sure there is a Re-Eq mode for movies.***

-avi

P.S. A "bathroom" mode sounds silly, but might work well for video games - so if you're going to include this type of mode, name it appropriately.

Thumbs up for sure. While I agree that 90% of DSP modes range from useless gimmicks to actual degraders of sound, once in a while you come across a truly useful, expanding processing set. Especially when watching material which is either mono or poor stereo, or just for kicks while having a party to widen the soundstage. If there's no cost, why not. Include even programmable parameters like some of the Yamaha's I've owned, so people can trade DSP profiles back and forth and customize the processing to their every whim.

Aside from Dolby Digital, Dolby Surround EX (or a reasonable facsimile thereof), DTS, DTS ES, DTS 6.1 Discrete, DTS Neo 6.1 and Dolby Pro Logic, the only processing modes I'd like to see are (1) a mode that will create 7.1 channels from a 5.1 or 6.1 source, (2) a mode that will create 3 front channels from a stereo source, and (3) a model that will downcovert 5.1 to 4.0 (many of Sony's upcoming multichannel SACDs are actually sourced from 4 track quadraphonic masters). Perhaps (2) will be done automatically by setting the center channel to "off" and setting the front and rear speakers to "large".

Basically, I prefer to listen to music the way it was intended to be heard. So much of the DSP modes are of absolutely no interest to me.

One question though -- will the 950 include Dolby Pro Logic I and II, or just Pro Logic II? The reason I ask is that virtually all of the surround-encoded Dolby stereo soundtracks were prepared with the original Pro Logic sound field in mind (front-center-left, mono surround). Although from what I've read, Pro Logic II can produce a very convicing 5.1 sound mix, I would at least like to have the choice of hearing some of these older soundtracks the way there were intended to be heard. In the end, I suspect I'll probably prefer the sound with Pro Logic II, but I'd still like to have the option of using Pro Logic I.

I'd say nay, because I never use DSP modes.

However, I have some more I'd like to add. From a company standpoint, it might be better to add them. I doubt you'd lose a customer because you added a few extra features. However, someone may decide that these DSP modes are a necessity and buy something else. (I don't know who would be so silly, but it's more apt to happen than someone refusing to buy because of the DSP modes).

If I was going to add them, I'd put them all under a single sub-menu somewhere deep within the menu system. Set it up so those of us who don't like and don't use them, while browsing the menu system only come across one entry - "DSP Modes" - rather than having to skip past each individual mode. If we want to use DSP modes we can choose to enter that sub menu and select a mode. If not, it's only one extra button press to ignore them. This eliminates hassle for people like me, but keeps the feature in for people who use it. Just make sure you default it to OFF...

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-Ryan (http://www.ryanwright.com)

[This message has been edited by Ryan Wright (edited June 18, 2001).]

I would have to say nay. I have owned a Yamaha receiver in the past, and I thought the DSP's for music and movies were pretty cool when I bought it. I used them for about a month and never turned them on again. They're nice to play with, and make nice ad copy, but they aren't really worth much. Especially with DPL II and DTS Neo around.

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"Whatever you do, you'll regret it" - Allen Mcleod Gray

NAY!

Although I never use other DSP modes, I don't see any reason to not include them if there are potential customers out there who appreciate them. As long as it is a no cost "perk" I say thumbs up.

Rob

A definite thumbs up for Dolby Pro-Logic II and thumbs down on the DSP modes.

From your standpoint, if you can include them at now cost, why not? If it sells a couple more units all the better. I don't think you would loose any sales if they weren't there.

Ken

Nay

I feel Dsp modes are a great feature for an upsell, I never have found them all that usefull. Having owned a few "High End Receivers" (Yamaha, Denon, B&K) Currently
I am using a B&K Ref 20 since april of 2000
and I'm still wrestling with going back to my Nakamichi Ca1 (Superb 2 Channel no DTS minimal bass management). So added frills for sacrifice of audio reproduction hmmm... what's the point? Having said that the level we of sound quality that is available at an affordable price, it's a no brainer,I
feel my comments are pertinent no matter anyone's Audio/Home Theatre ratio as well as a venture into DVD-A/SACD.....

Unless you want to consider Circle Surround (not really a DSP) because there are some CS encoded CDs out there, I suggest you just stick with PLII in both its versions (movie/music). However, if its possible to make the unit software upgradeable to new DSPs that may come along I guess that would work.

dsmith

No DSP for me.

Gonna have to cast my NAYE! vote. I never use the ones on my current receiver.

Dave

Gonna have to go with Nay, since I never use the ones on my 1050.

I am all for DPLII, but I honestly never use the DSP modes. So, I will vote nay on the extra "features".

Dave

Basically a "THUMBS DOWN" for me.

The only one I would actually use is some sort of 5/6 channel stereo mode. Actually I wouldn't mind something like this, but that is the only one. Everything else can go.

EDIT: But others have brought up a good point. If it doesn't cost more, then maybe it would be good to have them for potential customers that actually use them or think they are going to use them. Although chances are these people won't be looking into the 950 anyways. But it would be so like an Outlaw to not include them.

Fletcher

[This message has been edited by Fletcher (edited June 18, 2001).]

"Yea"

I say Nay. I find most DSP's to be annoying mor than anything.

I vote YES! If you don't like them you don't have to use them.

No. Never use them and have no desire to start.

I would say NO.

Nay! Don't use the ones I have now! Big waste of space and not good quality sound!

I don't use DSP settings,and don't think they add to the listening experience.

As long as cost doesn't figure into the equation, go ahead and include all you want. Just make them as unobtrusive as possible for people such as myself who will never use them. (excepting for 5/7 channel surround)

No. I don't feel DSP's would make the 950 a better product.

I really don't use the DSP modes much so I wouldn't miss them if they weren't there. But if there's no cost difference and it's just a few lines of code, why not! I vote a qualified yes.

No extra dsp's. Except for maybe all channel stereo.

------------------
If it sounds good keep tweakin', if it sounds GREAT time for an upgrade!

No to DSP's, except 5 channel stereo
Yes to DPLII

I, also would like to give a yes vote for the dsp's if they add no cost and can be incorporated without interfereing with everyday usesage. These little bells and whistles although not used 90% of the time can help sell yor product and sometimes can correct for poor hardware combinations and room acoustics. The most important factor however would be any change in reliability. Nothing is worse than having that unused bell causing a reliability problem. Thanks for your caring about our opininion and remember that the people you are getting these responses from are not necessarily the general public but are those that are most interested in your type of product and business paradigm. Darby

Big fat no. DSP. I may have to run the toilet and throw up

I would vote 'yea' but Outlaw should have a very few DSP Modes like

A. 'Rear Matrix' for those 5 channel users who want surround effects on DVDs

B. 5 Ch/7Ch stereo effect for those who want to hear CDs/NTSC Channels and donot like DPL-II

C. Have 'stadium' effect or couple of sound DSPs for those want sound effects or for those passionate Sports Fans

I agree that most of outlaw audio's customers/prospects are audiophiles, and hence will not use them.
But if there is no cost, then adding a few listed above should not clutter your on-screen display of menu options

Cheers,
Kishore

Ok, don't shoot me, I say leave 2. Jazz hall and concert hall. Why? Because these are the two environments for which many people wish to emulate with some tracks. Cathedral, sardine can, and Saloon have little use and should be left off. Oh yeah, Apollo 5 and Space Shuttle simulators are unecessary as well.

Doug

yea...

thanks

I almost never use those silly DSP modes. Some of them you can't even tell the difference between anyway...

However, I think they should be included, in some obscure place, just so people don't call it "not fully featured" and people don't get confused in the menu stuff. In order not to clutter the menu, just add one menu option named somethink like "extras" and throw all the useless crap in there.

I currently have a receiver with 16 dsp modes
and have tried them all to see what the difference is and haven't used them at all.
Now my wife on the other hand likes to use the Disco setting because of the echo yuck!!
Well to each his own I say so I would take it either way as long as it did not compromise performance.
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[This message has been edited by Vinny (edited June 19, 2001).]

No for DSP. I will buy Sony if I need DSP.

No, never use the ones I have....just extra clutter.

Nay. No DSPs, please.

No - I never really use them - I'm anxious to hear Pro Logic II.

Bob

Nay on the DSP modes. While they have a certain 'neat' factor, I don't think I have ever used one on my current reciever.

The only one that might be nice is something to expand a mono movie soundtrack across the front soundstage a bit.

Walter.

Music DSP's are not for me. My old Yamaha had a few and I never liked any of them enough to use them. So, if there were no "Hall", "Disco", or "K-Mart" I would definately not miss them.

Thumbs down, unless the DSP can be improved on, for example: The Sony DRE-S777, here is a quote from Sony "The DRE-S777 Sampling Digital Reverb is a unique reverb processor, which derives it's sound not from artificially generated algorithms, but from actual impulse response samples of real acoustic spaces"
This unit is approx. $7.500 and is pro-level gear. I have used it and the DSP modes it provides are superb. Only if Outlaw can get just a few of these samples and incorporate them into the 950.

DPL II and nothing else!

------------------

No simulated surrounds necessary.

Add my NO to the DSP's

Nay for me

------------------
Dave

I do not currently use any DSPs, so my vote is NO, although a 5-channel stereo mode would be cool.

Sure, why not? Can't be that draining to the processing..
So, a yes vote for me.

txemsdoc

No. I have never used them before, just extra bells and whistles as far as I am concerned.

Tim

No DSP.
Yes DPL2.

-EJ

I never use them with my Sony 9000ES preamp.

Jim

I vote No. But, I'd would have liked to have known if there were any tradeoffs that could be made and the price kept constant.

Yea

I have DPLII and it is wonderful....but every once in a while a recording might sound better in jazz...or stadium......as cost is not a factor, bring it on.

No DSPs!!
I've never heard a DSP that didn't distort the sound. Looking forward to Pro Logic II though.

I vote thumbs down on the DSP modes. For me these modes don't really add anything of much significance to the overall enjoyment of music or HT. I would rather see some other feature of more importance in its place.

------------------

At this time, my interests is solely DPL II.

I think with the availability of processing power these days, the pre/pro should provide 5 channel equalization and some base eq. This would help greatly in the room taming aspect of setup. And if one does not wish to use it, just flatten it.

I sure wouldn't use any DSP modes other than DPLII. So I guess I vote no - why clutter the interface?

Rob

no DSP modes for me.

I vote NO the DSP modes you mentioned (Hall, Stadium), but I would like to see some non-DSP surround modes like a mono mode that sends all of the sound to the center channel and a party mode that sends the same signal to all of the speakers.

YES.

DSP modes such as 5 channel stereo have been a deciding factor for a number of individuals debating between two products where the standard decoding formats (DD, DTS,etc) are essentially equivalent in performance. It would behoove you to not put these modes in if cost were not an issue.

Your product will no doubt compete with new pre/pro (or receiver as pre/pro) units from Sherwood/Newcastle and Sony ES, among others. The Sherwood will no doubt have the minimalist DSP approach perhaps more similar to the Outlaw if the Nays have it, while the Sony will have DSPs to the max. The interesting thing about the Sony DSP is that although there are numerous modes, many of which are quite useless, the Sony Cinema Studio EX modes are quite good. These modes can be applied to DPL, DTS and DD material with effective results. On DPL material the Studio modes are particularly effective IMO and it will be very interesting to see how DPL II compares. Where the level of effect may be adjusted to the nth degree on the Sony, what level of adjustment will there be with DPL II? I suspect that you get what you get.

I have heard the watered down H/K Logic7 (aka Logic5) and while it is better than 95% of the DSPs out there, I much prefer the Sony Studio modes. Also the fact that you cannot apply the H/K Logic5 to DD/DTS material and where the Sony ES could and do it effectively was a deciding factor in my purchase decision to select the Sony product over the H/K. Of course the Lexicon Logic7 is another story but it is at a very different price point.

Four channel music and movie (ie phantom)modes are also quite useful for those that don't have "equal" or matching center and front main speakers as well as those without a center. A four channel music mode similar to Sony's Live House has the desirable effect of preserving the stereo imaging from the front with a more expansive soundfield created by the inclusion of the rears. Again the level of effect and reverb is adjustable to suit ones taste.

My teenager also likes the Stadium/Arena modes. In their words "Mad Cool".

I also believe that most HTers will not discount a product altogether if it has the DSP modes. Just please don't make us cycle thru all fifty of them to switch from stereo to DPL II on the remote.

Good luck with your product intro,
Gil

Nope, never use them

Yes

I see no problem if it doesn't affect the final cost. I never used the DSP on my old yammie. However since upgrading to matched speakers I have found the 1050 natural and phantom modes quite pleasant, under certain conditions.

Rick Favreau

Absolutely thumbs down.

I turned down option on my car, and I havent ever once used it other than in disgust on my ACT-3.

DPII would be cool though!

Scot

Nay for me as well. Would take a good sounding five channel stereo mode though!

Rich

I have to vote nay. It only clutters the sound. Throw it in anyway the kids may like it.

[This message has been edited by Mark1 (edited June 20, 2001).]

No, Nay, and not at all. Have 'em now and don't use them at all...they just clutter things up. Keep it clean and pure.

------------------
RussellY

NAY!

NAY.

Pro-Logic II is a great addition.

Save the rest of the space for potential future enhancements.

Nay to DSP's.

I'd say no to DSP modes.

But a big YES to Dolby Pro Logic II!!!

To answer other people's desire for an answer to Lexicon's Logic 7: Pro Logic II will be exactly that. I've been waiting for an affordable unit with this, I'm very excited for the 950 to be released.

yea,
one man's trash is another man's treasure. surely, there will be one useful dsp mode among them.

mark

I would like to have DPL2. Does anyone have mono movies? It would sure be nice to have a mono movie dsp....one that would at least run through the front three speakers...I hate just the center speaker working and nothing else! So I'm going to have to say thumbs up for dsp modes!!!

nay for me

I say put the modes in it. As long as they are not being put in at the expense of something more useful, they should definitely be put in. I've noticed that many of the votes have been nay. But the instant you guys release the product, the reviewers will be all over you for not including them. You can't win...

Nay. My primary concern for a piece of audio equipment are the follwing three things: 1. Sound quality, 2. Build quality, and 3. Price. Anything that does not contributes directly to these three factors are just marketing gimmics.

I may not use it, but others may like it, doesn't hurt to add it....you can always not use it.

Thumbs down on the DSP's. I have owned receivers that had several of these and use very infrequently. Yes to DPL II.

Nay for me. Don't like 'em. Don't use 'em.

No to DSP's. I have never used them on my
present receiver.

No DSP's.A re-eq feature for movies would be nice.

NAY, to the DSP modes, YEA, to winning the 950.

I never use them.

Jim

I don't really use DSP, but if they don't affect the quality of anything else and cost isn't an issue, I don't see any reason why not to include them.

I vote no for DSP modes except for DPLII and 5, 6, or 7 channel stereo which I like for Parties...

Chas

Ya. I would like to see it with as many extras, but I would like to see the product be upgradable via Flash that is downloadable via the internet, or even open source therefore we could code our own.

Definitely thumbs down. 5 channel stereo is the only mode I find useful. The rest of the dsp modes on my receiver are left unused and almost everybody else seems to agree that there's no need to spend time or money into unnecessary features.

Yea for me. I like options, even if used infrequently. I can't imagine menu clutter would matter that much. If you never change the setting, how would a submenu be cumbersome?

If it makes no difference in the price of the unit, add them and let the user decide if he or she uses them. I personally never use them, but you never know when it might find material it sounds cool on. The best luck I've had with them is on video games. I always listen to music and watch movies in the direct or standard mode. I want to here the program exactly as it was recorded. I've never needed THX re-eq or any other type of soundtrack enhancement to enjoy my movies, I like them better without.
My vote though........Add them, because you never know. And "Bells & Whistles" are cool!

------------------

Drop the DSP music modes. I'm eager to hear what DPL2 does for music, but I have no need for artificial delay/reverb effects.

No more DSP's.

I never use them!

If others don't like the DSP's then they don't have to use them. I don't use them either, but it adds a little extra fun once in a great while. No harm, no foul.

Yes... kinda of...

I use only one DSP: Mono Movie

Everything else I would use DPL2 or the standard modes.

Let it be user configurable. Have all of the DSP modes available at initial , just let the user go into the menus and disable the modes they do not want showing up in the selection. Maybe even let the user define the order the show up. This would allow users to configure macro algorithms better with our "Advanced" remotes.

Little to no extra cost... and you can do it BK style... Have it your way!

I'll vote yes on the DSP

As long as it's free and doesn't messed up the interface. Plus it will bring in more customers.

No thanks. Not a huge fan of DSPs.

Yea, I say include the DSP modes. I f you don't like it, it's just one more item to scroll past.

I vote to emliminate the DSP modes, and definitely add the DPL II!

No for me. Played with DSPs on my current receiver for about 30 seconds and haven't touched it since. Been over 8 years now.

Thumbs Down! I think the DSP modes may be appropriate for the receiver market, but aren't necessary for a separate preamp.

I know most 'philes don't use em but what the heck, PLII looks to be awesome and a "6 stereo" party mode might be ok too. I believe it can be engineered and integrated without cluttering or becoming a hassle. I've never used them so far, but why limit the free possibilities? Just a few though, we don't need 25-40 DSP modes like most of the mass-market junk out there.

YEA, include 'em and I'll decide if i want to use 'em!!

No on DSPs. They're just annoying.

Just say no to DSP's!

I would have to say no to the extra DSP options.

Frank

I vote yes if there is no additional cost. 3 things I consider when purchasing new equipment: 1) Narrow choice based on highest peer reviews in price range. 2) Demo what is available to further narrow the field. 3) Items that are left that I feel I get the most product for the money is the one I will buy. It also gives you one more + in your column when comparing to other brands.

As long as it doesn't cost more, then why not. More stuff to play with.
Tim

Yes to 5 & 7 channel stereo, & Cinema Re-EQ.

No to “Concert”, “JazzClub”, “Stadium”,
“Men’s Room”, etc.

Though if discrete codes to all DSP modes were included I would not mind extra DSP modes.

Todd

Thumbs down. I don't use the fields on the 1050, and didn't on the box the 1050 replaced. They are fun for a day and then just in the way. A field can be created if needed.

This is a bigger distraction on the 1050 than it would be on the 950 pre/pro because the user has to thumb through the features much more on a unit without on-screen menus.

I confess; the "church" mode is almost necessary when listening to "The Benzedrine Monks of Santo Domonica" performing "Smells Like Team Spirit". But, I can push the delay if I want.

Yes include DSP because I would like to have the option to use it or not.

Sounds good...you should include the dsp

The more free options, the better.

I vote yes for DSP modes, especially if The OutLaws' can come up with a movie mode that is close to Lexicon's and Harmon Kardon's Logic7, Yamaha's 70MM, Sony's Movie Theater Modes...these are some great sounding enhancements to the movie experience. Maybe an Outlaw, or Outlawyer can generate a new algorithms, that will knock the socks off, or at least get close to the other giant's without getting but in Jail as an outlaw>>>

I,m new to the outlaw website, and really just learning about home theater, but I vote for no other processing options. I think most folks play with them once or twice but really use the Dolby or DTS modes for home theater. Another toy, but not really to be used all that often.

I have to say thumbs down to the extra DSP modes also. My last 2 receivers had tons of them and I never use a single one, they all sound bad.

I'll have to add my vote to the NO column to any DSP's. Just add ProLogic II.

My current receiver (just ordered my 1050... FINALLY!) has a bunch of DSP modes and other than checking them out I hardly ever use them and wouldn't miss them at all.



------------------

Wayne Dunham
waynedunham@email.com

I think that additional sound fields (including ProLogic II) should be included. Some people don't care for them, but others do. It all depends on personal listening preference. So it's better to have them and let the user/listener decide.

Not really interested in extraneous DSP modes.

This is a YES vote.

I was all ready to say no, but then I realized that anybody buying this preamp will be smart enough to know how to easily avoid them (and there's no danger of my wife messing around with the settings on this bad boy :-)

For the record, I never use the DSPs on my current preamp because they all sound too "artificial", but I'd still like to believe that there's a worthwhile DSP lurking out there just waiting to be discovered and I'd hate to miss an opportunity to find one on this preamp.

Ian

I vote "thumbs up."

I am a fan of DPS's - but only GOOD ones. Of course, this is subjective. I have owned a couple of "good" DSP receivers - Yamahas. Many say that Yamaha is second only to Lexicon in its implemetations of DSP's.

But even with Yamaha, I only used a handful - not the 40 that were available. I'd shoot for: DPL2 (of course), 5 channel stereo, 3 channel stereo, a subtle mode, a jazz mode. The rest get hokey fast.

Rich B.

Never used 'em, never will.

Nahh... Put the money into better components...

While I'm not a fan of DSP's. I would like to see some sort of 5 or 6 channel stereo mode. I guess I just got used to it from my Denon 3300. If this counts as a DSP then my vote is yay.

Agree

I vote no.
Personally, I am not a big fan of multiple DSP's.
However, since cost is not an issue, you may want to consider installing it anyway, but have it lay dormant until a code or signal is inputed to activate it. This way you can offer it as an option/upgrade for those who want it. Kind of similar to what Tag McLaren does with its AV32R pre/pro.

DSPs are a 100% waste; leave them off. Just make sure the bypass button is easy to find.

I say leave them on, but make it easy to bypass. Sometimes during a demo my friends like to hear a few DSP's...

------------------
Bring on the Outlaw!

i would say yeah include them as long as they dont impede literally or theoretically the performance of the other modes.

I vote nay to music DSPs. I am first and foremost a music lover - I have yet to hear a natural sounding DSP on ANY audio gear I've owned(and I've owned ALOT!!!) I NEVER use them for music. I know the 950 is an A/V preamp, but PLEASE don't forget us music lovers. - Keep musicality, soundstage, and timbral accuracy priorities in your design!!!!

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definite thumbs down on dsp, never used them on my old sony or my brand new outlaw 1050

down with DSP's. waste of money

down

i never use them at all. imho just unnecessary clutter.

Another no. I never use them.

I say Yea for DSP as long as it's not increasing the original price and effecting unit performance.
And also Yea for DPII

Thumbs UP!

DSP is fine with me so long as it can be defeated or have a non DSP pure mode or something of that nature.

If it does not cost much more I can only think that it would help its resale value down the road. Some people like DSP and if the cost is min why leave it out?


[This message has been edited by Goblin (edited June 28, 2001).]

A definate, absolute, utter thumbs down on the DSP's unless you guys just have time to burn (since the $ isn't an issue).

------------------
Thanks,
kevp

DPL II great- just what i am waiting for. DSPs thumbs down. Never liked them. Too much clutter. Just make all of the channel's able to be crossed over seperately for total customization.

I haven't bought my Outlaw yet, but I'll be doing so shortly. I can't believe all the great things I've been hearing (here and other places) about a company I didn't even know existed two weeks ago!

As for DSP's, like a great many of you, I never use them. I just want great natural sound without a lot of freaky effects I'll never use.

I vote Nay!

Troy

[This message has been edited by Owl's_Warder (edited June 30, 2001).]

thumbs up to dpl2. thumbs up to dsp modes. THX would be worth paying for.

Thumbs down for sure. There are 50 DSP modes on my Creative Sound Blaster Card w/ infinate variations and I NEVER have a need for them. DLP-II sounds great and a derivative of LOGIC 7 would be a plus!

I rarely use any of them, but I say leave a few of them if consumers expect them. My Yamaha HTR 5460 had 23 DSPs, and there were only a couple I could stand to listen to for any length of time. On the 1050, I sometimes use Natural with older mono movies.
IMO, the better and more accurate your speakers, the worse DSP modes tend to sound.

Yes! Include DSP for both movies
and music. Recording quality varies
so much, being able to tweak the sound
is a great idea. Especially if it costs
nothing more.

OF course, keep the bypass and selection
options easy to use.

M4R

Yes, PLII will be great, but give me the option to at least choose Hall or Jazz Club for other sound field options. Not all music, or radio sounds the best on the same sound field. If it's of relatively no cost, then two or three could be given without bogging down the menu settings...in my humble opinion

Only 2 coax digital inputs??? Save some of that DSP money and put in some more.
DSPs can be be great, but only if implemented as well as in the upper echelon pre-pros like Lexicon or Meridian. If you can extract 2 more channels from DPL 2, that would go a LONG way towards competing with 7-channel Logic7. I'm hoping that your 7 channel amp is indicative of something like this. It seems apparent that the overwhelming majority of respondents don't want any DSPs UNLESS they are really good ones. Here's hoping....

DP2= Very cool
Various DSP modes are nice... Just make it a few extra steps to get to them, to keep everything else more streamlined. Thanks for giving us a voice in this.
Josh

Nay vote for me. Don't need them for what I would use the pre for.

Dean

Yes I would Like Some DSP Modes. As soon as they were not available I know I would need one even though I seldom use them now. This always happens when I throw things away.

Yes, Outlaw should include some, enough DSP modes to attract Joe Six Pack into higher end equipment. It won't hurt us, and it'll help Outlaw and that means we can continue to enjoy their products.

The Natural DSP mode on the 1050 works fairly well for music.
(If you can get rid of the occasional distortion that occurs in Natural mode)
A functional 5 or 7 ch Natural music mode would be nice since I'm using full range speakers F, C & R Ch.
The 1050's other current DSP modes sound terrible, I just run the amp in PL surround with the center Ch speaker off. Looking foward to seeing the new 950 ! Currently considering the Marantz AV9000 to go with the MM9000 I am now using with my Outlaw 1050. Decent sounding DSP's for music could make a big difference.

Steve

here are some _useful_ modes I can think of

* b-speaker mode: duplicate a stereo signal in the "surround" speakers, effectively making them into a second set of main speakers. This makes up for the lack of b outs in the 1050

* headphone processing: there's a company that makes a special gizmo for headphones which carefully alters the stereo signal so that sounds appear to come from two phantom speakers in front of the listener. This sounds more natural than the standard "music-in-my-skull" sound that headphones have. It also prevents headaches, which results from the brain trying to figure out where the hell the sound is coming from.

If there is a desire to market to entry level stereo buffs perhaps the DSP's should remain,if no real costs are involved. I agree with most of your hard core supporters that their use is much like moving from sweet to dry wines as one's pallet develops.I have used them little after the first year.

Having had a few receivers in my time, rarely have I actually used dsp's, one or two might be alright for listening to music in all channels otherwise bag em. I would much rather see energy being put towards the dvd player and other ventures in the works.

I say NO to the DSP modes. I never use them.

I use them about as much as I use my stair-stepper.....never! My vote is a big No. The time and effort should be spent elsewhere.

My vote: No DSP modes.

My thoughts: When I see a unit with many bells & whistles, I DON'T think of quality. I think of quantity.

A Pre/Pro that does not have a lot of bells & whistles will always seem to focus on other things such as build quality, sound quality, etc.

------------------
Bruce Tiller
WT-46807 Toshiba SD-6200
Outlaw 1050 Receiver
Definitive Tech BP2004TL
My DVD list

As long as there is no extra cost or trade-off, why not?

Plus maybe you Outlaws can create some DSP's that are accually useful!

I have to say NAY to DSPs!

[This message has been edited by ej1111 (edited July 02, 2001).]

Yes - thumbs up

-...to a few dsp modes. I think 4 channel stereo (no center channel), 5 channel stereo, a Party dsp (I forget what it is usually called) that mirrors the front L/R stereo signal in the rear L/R speakers so you end up with the same signal in the front and rear left speakers as well as the same signal in the right front and rear speakers (I hope that makes sense.) It also might be interesting to have one mode that could be completely tweaked (reverb, decay, etc...) and saved to one's own preference. I usually never use any of the hall, cinema, or concert dsps'.

thanks Outlaw

Nope on DSPs. The only one I ever use is Dolby Pro Logic II, and it isn't really a DSP. If cost isn't an issue, sure put them on there but dont cut back on something else for more DSPs.

NO DSP's. If I wanted to listen to a jazz club I'd go there and not in my home. Used DSP's for several years with that Yamaha receiver. Tired and worn out with that crap Thanks.

Maybe a multi-channel stereo mode for when you want some background music while you are doing things around the house, but other than that--no.

DJ

i vote yeah on dsp modes.

nay

I like the idea of Pro-logic II being included. As for the other DSPs, I think that they are unnecessary. I never use them but would not be against including them (unless they add to the cost!).

Allan



[This message has been edited by Allan (edited July 03, 2001).]

Definitely NO

A lot of people like DSP's, but I would think that the overwhelming majority of people who are in the market for separates don't have a need for them. This is probably even more the case with Outlaw customers.

Not only is there a pride of ownership derived from owning a factory-direct pre/pro of Outlaw quality, but you can also say that you have all the latest decoding algorithms, but just the ones that "matter."

I agree with most everyone else that DSP's sound artificial and generally muck up the sound. I also think that it will give you more freedom in making the user interface cleaner/easier if you can eliminate DSP's.

So... I vote a big NAY on DSP's....
and a big WOOT!! on DTS-ES discrete and DPL II.


RichardH

I never use them, but don't mind them being there if it adds no cost.

So I vote Yea.

Dump the DSP.

I vote to include everyting possible at no extra cost if there is no impedence to performance. Load up her and come out firing!!!

Best regards-Henry

NO to the DSP modes. I gave them an honest try, but did not like any of them. Very unnatural sound. The menu complexity is not needed. How about this: if a customer really wanted them, a download could do the trick, eh?

No DSP's if they work as good as the ones on the 1050

No thank you. Keep it clean, keep it loud and keep it simple (KIS).


-Dan

Nay

No to DSPs, especially if it means sacrificing other features or increasing costs. I've always found DSPs one of those things that are cool once or twice and have some 'gee-whiz' factor but never get used on a day to day basis in real life application.

my vote: no! never use the things myself.

I vote "Yea". The only DSP mode I use is the
5 Channel stereo, have no use for the others,
but if there is no increase in cost why not.
Just keep it simple.



[This message has been edited by SteveZ (edited July 03, 2001).]

As long as DPL2 has a mode that mimics 5 channel stereo(it does have multiple modes doesn't it?), then NAY.

Otherwise YEA so that i can get a 5 channel stereo DSP

Davo

No DSP, Yes Prologic II.
the simpler the signal path, the better the sound.

Yea

why not? don't cost nothin. More to put on box.

Harlan

I vote no. They will never get used.

The only DSP mode I use is 5 channel--the others are of no interest to me...

I'd vote no...

The only DSP I currently use is Disco. Thats because my mains are horrible and cant fill the room.

So nay for DSPs if there is going to be DPL II.

I think DSP's are mainly a marketing tool to sell a receiver. When it gets down to it, I don't use many of the DSP's on my receiver.

I agree with the majority. Thumbs up with DPLII and down with DSPs.

I Never use DSP

I say leave out the DSP's.
They are gimmicky, usually sound bad, and I think most enthusiast's never use them.
I think they also only confuse users who aren't familiar with all the formats and proper use of the equipment.

Yet another Nay vote.

Like most, I played with the DSP modes on my receiver when I first got it. None of them sounded vary good, not even DPI. I never have used them since.

I'm looking forward to hearing DPII, to see if it lives up to the hype, but the rest of the DSP modes I would never miss.

AS long as it truly does not effect cost or quality, then a limited number of DSP's is fine by me, like 5 or 7 channel stereo and maybe Matrix 3 channel if DPL2 does not already handle that well. SO, my answer is yes, a few, given that it does not effect quality or cost.

------------------
My toys at http://www.sdiver.org

No on extra DSPs, I've never used them, and probably never will.

DPLII sounds good, and maybe even a 5, 6 or 7 channel stereo though.

"Nay"

[This message has been edited by Duane_T (edited July 03, 2001).]

If it does not affect the cost, the I would say yes. There are a couple of DSP modes on my DB930 that I enjoy for use for TV viewing.

No DSP's, Yes to PLII. Analog Bypass would be great.

Nay!

Thumbs Up

If there is no price difference why not include a few? Not including them will hurt your marketability... and the rest of us will buy it anyways. I don't know of anyone not buying a nice piece of equipment because of the DSPs included... but I do know of somethat didn't buy because there are no DSP's. These are the ones I would use.

-DPLII
-DPL (Yes... include the original!)
-5 Channel Stereo (or equivalent, I love this on the Denons)
-Mono (Do something with mono instead of just throwing it at my center channel... I have 6 speakers I want to use them!)

Anything extra is just icing on the cake.

------------------
***************
-Jin
My Home Theater

[This message has been edited by Jin Elkins (edited July 03, 2001).]

I don't really mind them at all. I think the more the merrier. If I don't like them, I won't use them, but I like having the option.

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"Have good mosh pitting!"

NO DSP
YES DPL II

I give a thumbs down to DSPs, I almost never use them; though very occasionally I've found the "5 channel stereo" mode on the Denon 3200 to be interesting for some music ...

Two thumbs all the way DOWN. Useless.

Stick with the DPLII, dump the rest.

DP2, sure.

As for others, I occasionally use Denon's 5-channel stereo which is nice, but the others I could do without. It's a pain in the ass skipping through all the modes just to switch between stereo and DP/DD.

NAY but... I'd certainly be happy with a mode that outputs a plain stereo signal through both the front and rear pairs.

Cheers,
Graham.

I think Dolby Pro-logic II is a very good idea.I don't feel DSP's do much except change the original intent of the source medium. If anything apply the chips toward exceptional bass management which is a feature everyone is clamoring for.Not global but individual channel management!

I have no need for the matrix surround modes. Thanks for asking.

I am on pins and needles waiting for the 950. It's the last upgrade (for this calendar year anyway )

Thanks
Ron

I vote for DPL-2 and DSP.
The properly design DSP is very helpful, and very very good like the one on Lexicon pre/proc.

I would have to say yes to the PLII. The rest of them are just no good. I'm sure some people would use them. Maybe an option in the set-up screens would be to have them turned on or off. Just a thought.

------------------
Jeff Blair

WooHoo I'm getting married. There goes my upgraideites.

NO DSP!

Thumbs down.

If you do include them, provide a user interface to make them customizable to the individual environment.

------------------
The Whites' Home Theater Website
DIY Projects, HT Glossary, HT Links, Toshiba Tips&Tweaks

NO

Thumbs Down for the extra DSP modes. They will never get used by me.

DSP NO WAY!!!

I vote no.
I don't use DSP currently even though I have the option.

DSP's are a waste. Don't do it!

I currently have the Denon 4800. The only "DSP" mode that I use is 5/7 channel stero. As for all other DSP modes, I would vote no.

Ron A.

I vote no on the DSP debate. I never use them and feel they just clutter up the interface

I say Yes. For critical music no. But, they are nice to have under certains circumstances, especially 5 channel stereo. If they do not increase the cost and can be disabled, why not?

I say Nay to the DSP modes .. concentrate on the features that really matter!!

Yes..I kinda like to tinker with the DSPs and its cool to be able to change the "ambience" with a push of a button.

Yea

As long as it does not add to the cost, as mentioned above, it doesn't hurt. If subtle enough, they can make some bad recordings more enjoyable to listen to, so please make them adjustable.

Have to say No.
Never use the ones I have now.

My vote is no for extra DSP modes.

I rarely use DSP modes on any of my equipment, but they are sometimes useful. So, if there's no extra cost to add them, then by all means do so. Please just don't go overboard! A set of a half-dozen or so well-chosen DSP modes is better (and easier to use) than 30 strangely named modes with tiny differences.

if its free why not? thumbs up

I have never used any of the DSPs on my 3801 ... have flipped through them occasionally (for want of a better thing to do) ... but never used them .. I think that they are a complete waste !

Other than 5/7 channel modes, I think other DSP modes are fun to tinker with for a short while, then never used again. I vote no.


------------------
Carlton Barnes

I vote no for any extra DSPs. If DPL2 is as much better than Circle Surround as they say, then it will suffice nicely!

------------------
rsn

No - Keep it simple!

Alex

As long as it doesn't add anything to the price, why not add a few extra options? All it needs is an intuitive user interface for the DSP modes.

No DSP, i never use em anyway

My response to this topic is "nay" to the new DSP's, which are rarely, if at all listened to. If cost is not an object, use the resources to develop an even better product; to my understanding is a knockout piece of audio equipment.

Thumbs UP. While I never use them myself, I would hate for you to lose
customers based on a lack of DSP's. Shoot, some poor soul may consider your
lack of DSP support a sign that you are still an 'up and comer'. They've
worked for Yamaha, Sony, Lexicon... why the hell not- especially if they
don't weigh down your COGS.

Nope, nada, no thanks!
Pete

From a marketing standpoint, more the merrier if it is no cost. I would list them at the end of the other mainstream options so you don't have to wade through all of them to get to where you want to be.

I do find occasional use for the phantom modes that redistribute the center to L/R speakers.

I wholeheartedly agree with other posters that bass management is where it's at. If it were a choice between b-m and extra modes, there would be no contest.

--Keith--

Real men don't use DSPs.

So that would be another vote 'No'.

------------------

This is a tough question. Taking into account that Outlaw is making such great products (I really wanna win haha) , I would think that you should only keep the DSP modes if you are able to produce them at a greater quality than what is already out there. If any improvements cannot be made, then theres no point in including them.

Yes.. Why Not, If you don't like them, don't use them.

Mark

Thumbs down! I have never, ever used them. But please DO include Dolby Surround EX, in addition to DPL-II and DTS-ES Discrete.

If it doesn't affect the price, I say Yes. Can't wait for the 950. Any chance of moving the release from Oct to Sept? Please include all the DD and DTS flavors if possible. It's down to the Denon 3802 and the Outlaw 950 for me.

These DSP modes are not useful!

Naw they suck
If DPL2 is anything like Fosgates other matrix 6-axis, you don't need those crappy DSPs!

MC

Thumbs down - Didn't use it before. Don't use it now. Won't use it in the future.

James McDaniel

Yes for pro logic II and yes for Dsp, I dont use them but someone out there might.

nay to the dsp modes buut all for the 2 being on 950.

I would say no to DSPs. As long as you have DD & DPL2 DTS & DTS EX & ES, and include 5/7 channel stereo, you'll have a killer system.

Nope.
To clarify, I wouldn't mind a 5-channel or 7-channel music mode (isn't that part of DPLII standard, anyway?) but I couldn't care less about the more gimmicky settings. The one I never understood was "stadium." Why would anyone want their music to sound as if it were in an aluminum can?

NOOOOO please no useless dsp's!! I hate that on my current processor. I would upgrade to the 1050 if it didn't have a tuner and useless dsp's. Will the 950 be able to do 6.1 DTS?? That would be great. How about something to convert composite video to S-video as my DVDO scanner uses s-video??

Nope. Never use them.

Scott,
Just 5 channel stereo please, and don't forget the idiot light above the display to signify when in DD mode.
Russ

A strong YES. Just make it user defeatable.

Occasionally, older recordings and poorer recordings can be salvaged using one of these modes. Also, I suggest that the DSP output be available as a line-level (tapeloop) output. I would also like to see some of the DSP parameters be user programmable.

While most audiophiles would not admit to using the feature, many average user may find the modes useful. That will broaden the potential market of the product. After all, we want Outlaw to survive and prosper - BUT also not lose its focus on the audiophile market.

Let's be practical here. Many niche market companies with wonderful audio products has succumbed because they failed to also appeal to a broader market.




[This message has been edited by owkone (edited July 05, 2001).]

Opps,This is the first time on this forum I hope my mistake doesn't exclude me in the drawing.Anyhow I would vote No on DSP modes ,I dont use them now.Thanks

No thanks, I never use them.

Brad

I vote to leave em' out!

No one ever uses these silly modes.

If there's any reason to have these and DPL2 I can't think of one.

Attention All Outlaws:


Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to post a comment or opinion on the question of what to do about the inclusion of DSP modes in the forthcoming Outlaw Model 950.


The response has well beyond our wildest expectations, and though we have already read each and every comment, it will take some time for us to discuss the results internally. At this time we can certainly confirm that the 950 WILL include Dolby Pro Logic II. We don't consider that a "DSP Mode", and it has always been in our plans for the 950. As to the core question of the more familiar "DSP Modes", we'll post our decision when we're ready for the beta test.


As to the question of who is the lucky winner of a Model 950, we have to ask you to hang in there a while. We'll also announce the winner when the beta test begins.

All of the Outlaws express their appreciation to everyone who participated in this thread, and we welcome your continued comments in the "New Products Suggestions" section of the Outlaw Saloon.

We are still on schedule to start the Model 950 Beta Test late this month, or perhaps early in September, but in the interim the Outlaws would like to close one of the issues on our "To Do" list.

When we took our customer survey a while back to get your opinions on the inclusion of so-called "DSP Modes" in the 950, we promised to award a unit to one of those posting a comment. We've conducted a random drawing from all respondents and entries, and we are pleased to announce that the winner is "mxy15". He will receive a unit as soon as production has begun.

While our final decision on DSP modes will take all comments into consideration, both in terms of the actual tally of "yeah" and "nay" votes as well as your insightful comments, we are still working on programming the microprocessor. That will tell us where we stand in terms of memory requirements for the necessary features, which, in turn, will tell us how much, if any, is left over for things such as DSP. We'll let you know what the final outcome is in September.