Needing a Blanket

Howdy all,

Last night I received my 950/7100 Combo, and decided to audition it. I was using a Marantz SR-19 A/V reciever before. The first thing I noticed when comparing the two systems was that the 950 didn't have the "warmth" of the Marantz. It was much more crisp, however. The warmth that I am referring too almost sounded like a lack of bass in all of the speakers. Not pounding bass, but the sutle sound that keeps a scene from sounding like it is full of treble.

Since I haven't ever had seperates, and yesterday was the day I got them and tested them, I have a few novice questions. Will the sound change over time (break-in) on the 950? Is there anything that can be done to "warm" up the sound, like using the bass boost in the configuration menu, or setting the crossover frequencies for the center, mains, and surrounds lower (they are set to 80 Hz right now)?

I have been reading in this group for a little while now, and you all always have good advice to offer. I would greatly appreciate any advice that can be offered on this topic.

Thanks in Advance!

Incognito, from my personal experience as well as what I have seen in other posts regarding the 950, the general opinion seems to be that the 950 is a very "crisp" sounding piece of hardware. Some people like it because they can hear additional details in the sound tracks now whereas before those details were lost in the "warm fuzzy". The lack of bass in your post sounds to me like you're describing the "booming" sound of "dirty bass" (for lack of better word). With "clean bass" you should feel it instead of hearing it and this may take some getting use to.

I am a big believer of breaking-in audio equipments so after about 100 hours or so, maybe you'll hear things a little differently. But for me, the 950 still retain that "crisp" sound. As a suggestion, I would use an analog sound meter from RadioShack and make sure the sub is setup correctly and depending on the type of speakers you have make sure you've selected the right crossover setting for your speakers. If you had your speakers set as Large with the Marantz before and now it's cutting off at 80Hz, then of course you're not getting as much bass as before. So play around with it and see what's best for you. Hope this helps.

[This message has been edited by mxy15 (edited September 02, 2003).]

mxy15, you have nailed it with the "crisp" thing. That was the first thing I noticed when I fired up my 950/770 combo. You do get use to it after a while, in fact I now prefer it. But as you mentioned, crossover makes all the difference. Using the specs included with my speakers, I set the crossovers as I thought fit. Wrong! Play around with them, you will be amazed at the difference, (of course having a quality sub woofer makes all the difference when changing the crossovers). Have a little fun with the 950 and give it some time.

Thanks Guys (and Gals)...not to offend anyone.

I do like the 950. Even if it is crisper than my Marantz. I have heard a lot of new things in the movies I have watched. I didn't know if it was because of the 950 or the amp. I have never had seperates, so my speakers are now feeling clean power. I am using a set of four year old Definitives. I have bi-polar fronts, and surrounds. The sub is weak, but it is doing it's job for now. I am not a big fan of a lot of bass. Enough to make the movie true is good enough for me. I got my fill of tickeling nose hairs when I was into car audio as a teen.

Thanks again you all for the posts! I really appreciate you all taking the time to respond.

Do you all have any tricks for setting up the 950 that might not be so speaker dependent, but made it sound good (not warmer..just better).

Thanks again!!!!

Outlaw and Def Tech gear..great combo my friend

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Play it LoUd!!

I find it has superb detail, yes. I was concerned because my M&K speakers tend to sound crisp also. But the B&K amp tends to warm things just enough to reduce any edginess. I am in a new house with only blinds presently as window covering. As more stuff goes in and on the walls, I expect the tuning of the room to even things out even more. Presently I am very satisfied with the audio performance of whatever I throw at it.

If I remember correctly, DefTech has a fairly bright and forward sounding characteristic. So this may be the sound you'll have to get use to. Some other way to "warm" the sound, just as your title suggests, adding a few blankets on reflective surfaces may help diffuse the sound a little. With bi-polar speakers, you also have to be very careful with your placement of it because you maybe getting too much reflection. One other option is to change your speaker cables and/or interconnect cables. Use "darker" sounding cables like Cardas may help things somewhat. Some people even find a difference between the type of digital cables they use. I don't know if you are using tos-link or digital coax but I think digital coax usually have somewhat warmer qualities to it too.

UH OH! Watch out, mxy15. "Darker" cables? "Warmer" digital coax? If I know this community of gunslingers at all, you have just opened yourself up for (hopefully friendly) potshots from all directions!

In my custom home theater, yet to be built, I plan on installing infra-red heat lamps above each loudspeaker location. I thought about wrapping my interconnects and speaker cables with the resistive wiring often used in colder climates on plumbing to keep the liquid inside from freezing, but so many experts say that the temperature of the transducers and the temperature of the ambient air near the loudspeakers will make a more significant difference.

And, oh yes, with regard to other room treatments, I plan to add dishes of various candies to expand the sweet spot. I'm going to have to experiment with candy placement to find the optimum results.

Too much of this, though, and all that will expand is my head and my waist. One, or both, are too big already!

(Thank you, Ladies and Gents, for listening.)




[This message has been edited by bestbang4thebuck (edited September 03, 2003).]

Not trying to start a debate here and I am definately NOT trying to convert non-believers. Incognito asked for so I am just throwing in my 2 cents worth of advise. Hope it helps!

And for my part, mxy15, I hope not to ignite heated arguments or be negative. As a 'community' we owe each other a good attitude. Part of that good attitude, IMHO, is to laugh at ourselves! I hope everyone understands.

mxy brings up good points.

Incognito...what cables are you using? for speakers? I had Acoustic research master series and they always sounded bright and harsh. The best investment I ever made for my theatre was Bettercables premium II speaker cable.

The sound is nowhere near as bright, and the bass definitely tightened up a bit

I use all Outlaw cables, wether it be for analog or digital. Toslink connections sounded way to bright in my setup, digital coax was again, an improvement.

Speaker placement. It is obviously different in everyroom. First off, I need to know what Def Tech models you have. They may not be bi-polar. Some people use the CLR models for mains and they aren't bipolar. If you Have the power towers or the the non power towers, such as the BP30's, 10's, 8', and 6B's, Pull them away from your back wall ASAP.

I know Definitive says 5" will do but I find with any speaker, the further away from the walls the better. Ofcourse you'll lose bass, but I'll take great overall sound then a annoying sound with a lot of bass.

Mine are 34" from the back wall, and 22" away from the side walls. I sit about 9 feet from my speaker and they are very slightly toed in towards my seating position. I have BP30's for mains. I am interested to hear what you have. If you have power towers, start off with the powered subs facing inward.

Try new cables, speaker and source, and try repositioning. The repositioning alone will do wonders to tame the brightness.

Get back to us and tell us what models you have. I have dealt with all models from Def Tech and will do my best to help.

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Play it LoUd!!

On one of these threads an Outlaw stated that most improvements can be made with changes in our rooms. Duh, pretty basic concept! Now I don't know about you, but it is easier said than done in my home. My wife has a lot to say about how the room is set up. So if you're in the same boat, then go ahead and spend your money on all the cables there are, after all they will all be hidden. But I still think you are better off spending your money on things that will change your room's acoustics. I hope this is coming out right, I just had surgery today and am feeling the anesthesia still, (you have no idea how many attempts it has taken me to type this - the brain is willing but the fingers are not cooperating).

Basic concepts are often the ones most taken for granted when searching for the Holy Grail of hardware to buy. I am sure the most dedicated audiophile catches themselves sometimes.
Best wishes on your recovery BTW. Anesthetics tend to 'hang around' awhile.

Spoonman,

Thanks for your reply (and the replies of everyone else). I will post my equipment when I get back home. Today is college football day, so I'm out and about.

I have some older DefTech stuff, but the fronts and surrounds are bi-polar. The BP series sounds correct. I will get you the exact numbers soon. Hopefully this evening. I look forward to hearing what you all have to say and any help that you can provide. I'm not disappointed with my Outlaw equipment at all. I would just like to make sure that I get it tuned optimally.

Thanks again!

DaleB, this is my second surgery in 5 years, I hate what anesthesia does to the brain, of course it is better that experiencing the pain as they are cutting into you and manipulating your organs. But anyways, thank you for your concern. I now have four weeks of recovery so you will start seeing my two cents all over these threads. Now back to the topic at hand. Incognito, now that you have had some time to get use to your new system, try something absurd with it. Like move your speakers ridiculously far apart, aimed at the side walls, different levels. Now listen to this awful set up. Begin to slowly reposition everything and listen to each move as you make it. You just might discover a different speaker location that makes all the difference, in fact you might just discover that it was just repositioning them a few inches from the original spot in any direction that opened them up. But you must start in this absurd position so that your ears detect improvements instead of your eyes. I had a pair of speakers once that I thought were just garbage inspite of all these great reviews. It wasn't until I just became so frustrated that I started moving them into the center of the room, a location that they could not be left in. Guess what? They sounded wonderful! So I had to figure out where I could actually place them and by just moving them in small increments I eventually found a location not far from the original but it made a world of difference. It's free, so give it a try.

Alejate speaks the truth. If room acoustics are the most important factor, and a speakers placement goes hand in hand with a rooms acoustics, and repositioning over and over is FREE, then you will more then likely find the sweet spot

People always say Def tech towers suck for critical music listening. I disagree! They are very picky as far as placement, but once you find "The" spot, it's audio heaven.

I experimented several hundred times it seems. Moving them away from the back wall in 2" increments wasn't fun. I originally had them at 8" from back wall. The rear mounted drivers were interacting in a negative way with the wall. They are now 34" from the back wall and WOW! I also moved them from 12" away from side walls to about 22".

I have them slightly tilted upwards, about 3/4 of an inch. And slightly toed in. These measurements more then likely will not work in your room, but it's a decent guideline to start off with.

Most people don't understand the theory of speaker placement, let alone have the energy to experiment with positions and acoustics.

Not only will you have found a better spot for your speakers, but you will have learned a valuable audio lesson that will stick with you forever

Good luck!

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Play it LoUd!!

Hey Spoon and fellow Outlawers....

Thanks again for all of the advice. I will certainly give the speaker placement a try. My room isn't very accoustic...so I know that is part of the problem. Here are the speakers I am using:

DefTech - BP6 (Mains), Procenter C2, BP1X (surrounds), and a ProSub 100 (actually need a bigger sub).

I only have a 5.1 system...but I hope that gives you all a better idea of things. I was using a Marantz SR-19 receiver (not the EX version). My equipment (prior to the Outlaw purchase) is about 5 years old, when I bought it...it could be dated more than that...even though they were still in the box when I spent the money.

Thanks again for all of your help! Please feel free to offer up any advice that you might have. I did look into that speaker wire. That is expensive stuff! I think they wanted $200 for 8 feet of it. I am using Outlaw Interconnects to go from the 950 to the 7100. I have Monster Cables running everything else. I am not sure what kind of speaker wire I have..I purchased it at a home theater store (off of a spool) the same time I got my speakers..so it is dated as well. I am using Digital Coax to connect the DVD to the 950 also. I have an toslink cable..but I haven't tried it yet.

Sorry I got so long winded. Thanks guys and gals!!

I set up my friends BP6's a few months ago. In his room that is 14 ft. wide and 18 feet deep, his speakers are about 16" from back wall, and about 4 feet from the side walls, putting about 5 to 6 feet between the towers themselves.

Just experiment and sooner or later you'll come across an area where your sound improves. Make sure they have the feet installed and tilted upwards atleast .5", A full Inch might be even better. Try toeing them in a bit but not too much.

Let your ears be the judge! Have fun

I wish I could help more. But trial and error is the best way to handle this situation.

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Play it LoUd!!