One For ALl Cinema 7+ and 950?

Is there any way to use my OFA Cinema 7+ with my 950 other than learning every key? I like the Cinema7+ and frankly I dislike the Outlaw remote (same as my previous Sherwood 9080). The menu keys and transport being the same is idiotic.

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Philip Hamm

There is not a "code" for the 950 (not that anybody has ever found, and the 1050 was the same way), so the only way would be to teach it every key or getting into the JP1 programming, which I believe the Cinema7 supports (for more on that, check out HiFi Remote 's site).

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

I got used to the Outlaw 950 remote, so much so that I don't use any of my other remotes (unless it's for an esoteric command). This includes either of my Cinema7 or Cinema8 remotes. Once I mapped the most needed keys from the 5 other remotes' keys to the Outlaw remote, I was cooking with gas.

Quite a few keys on the 950 remote light up with words that do not represent their function, making it sometimes hard to use the 950 remote in a darkened room.

Yeah, but that's going to be true of any hard-button universal remote in at least some modes of use...

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

Yes, you can use UEIC/RS remotes with your 950. I created an upgrade code for it using the jp1 interface without too much difficulty. Let me know if you are interested and I can send it to you.

Well, I initially set up my 950 remote last night and it works OK maybe. The problem is how do you have menu and transport controls both available?? This is particularly tricky for my DVD players.

And I can't get macros to work. I program it, it doesn't play back. Confusing.

Ellen I may take you up onthe JP1 stuff. I'm hoping to get a OneForAll 8910 (I think that's the model number) for Christmas, if I do I may want to set it up with JP1. I also have two other JP1 LCD remotes (a Producer8 and one old Radio Shack one) that I could use.

For my DVD player control, I mapped the menu navigational button onto the main (Rev/Play/FF/Stop/Pause) buttons, and then for the player's transport buttons, I simply mapped them to the set of the little round buttons on the bottom rows above the macro buttons. It take a bit of memory on the user's part to remember the new button assignments, but once you commit them to memory, you won't have any problems using the 950's remote with my DVD players (2 of them).



[This message has been edited by patman (edited December 13, 2002).]

That ain't gonna work in my house. I want the system to be easy for my wife and any guests I have over to use. This remote is very close to being quite nice, but falls short without this function. I have two DVD players too, and my VCR has menu functions also. Even on a $25 full retail Oneforall Cinema7+ I can do this.

[This message has been edited by Philip Hamm (edited December 13, 2002).]

I resisted learning every key on the 950 remote, but once I did it, it was a non-issue. I guess you'll just have to do the same with the Cinema7, learn each button the hard way.

I would have used my Producer8 with the Outlaw, but you can't map the buttons like you can on the Cinema7, so I just embraced the 950 remote and went to town. The Producer8 was my primary remote, and now it's just collecting dust.

The WAF/FAF means you'll most likely have to go the Pronto route one of these days if you don't want to confuse them.



[This message has been edited by patman (edited December 13, 2002).]

Hey Ellen,
Please email me the upgrade codes. I have an MX-500/OFA8811/JP1 on order. Thanks in advance.
Jim
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Home theater: The hobby the whole family can enjoy....whether they want to or not.

Jim, I'd be happy to do so except you don't have your email addy in your profile.

I also looked high and low for that upgrade code but can't seem to find it. I did find a spreadsheet into which I typed the EFCs gotten by learning all of the 950 remote buttons and examining them in IR. I can send you that and you can build your own upgrade code with the Keymap Master spreadsheet.

Phil, I suppose that you could do the same. If you like your Cinema 7+, I say keep using it. Building an upgrade code is very easy and you wouldn't have to waste all of your learning memory. I ended up returning my 950 but had I kept it, I certainly would have used my RS 15-1994 to operate it and my other a/v equip and not the remote that came with the 950. That has more to do with the fact that I've been using the UEIC remotes forever and am comfy with them than with any shortcomings of the 950 remote.

Hi Ellen,
Sorry about that. My email address is now visible. Or maybe not. Try jgarbern157294mi@comcast.net. Thanks
Jim


[This message has been edited by tofufot (edited December 13, 2002).]

Thanks a bunch.

For anyone else who's lurking, Ellen has just posted an excellent keymaster (of Gozer ?) file over at the jp1 files section of yahoo groups, here .
If you're not registered, and want to tap into the wonderful world of cheap, programmable remotes, do so (the link may not work if you're not registered). There's a wealth of info there, including all the software and hardware instructions.

I'm probably preaching to the perverted, but for the uninitiated (as I was a week ago), jp1 provides a direct PC connection (unfortunately not compatible with Macs) to one for all and radio shack remotes that allows you to easily completely reprogram them, saving memory and lots of remote teaching command by command. Probably the most useful thing is the ability to program hard button 'discrete codes' for your hard earned home entertainment paraphernalia, such as 'power on' and 'power off' - not just toggle the power button - very useful for macros such as system off where you don't want to toggle something on inadvertently. Although I stumbled onto the fact that the 950 uses a lot of the same signals as the 1050 remote and had a working jp1 device set, Ellen's is a much more elegant keymaster sheet than the one I was working on. Ellen's is designed for the Cinema 7 remote, but the beauty of keymaster is that it can easily convert the codes so that they can be used on many other remotes. The One for all 8 device remote (URC8811) is only $25 (about $40 with JP1 cable from Bluedo ). Many use these inexpensive remotes just to teach another remote, such as the hometheater master MX-500 (or even the original 950 remote). You may already have a programmable remote and not even know it, as I did. The Comcast cable box remote is a cheap One for All remote and can be programmed. Just remember to save its default settings in case you need to revert to them before futzing around with it. Then you'll just need the JP1 cable, which is cheap, or easily constructed your own self. Start here to learn about JP1.

By the way, as Ellen also knows, the Outlaw 950 has discrete on (187) and off (181) codes.

I'm working on a modified keymaster file for my URC8811 which will have functions reassigned to the extra buttons that the Cinema 7+ doesn't have, so you don't have to mess with shift-commands. If anyome wants it let me know and I can post it on the jp1 site at yahoo.

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Home theater: the hobby the whole family can enjoy - whether they want to or not


[This message has been edited by tofufot (edited December 22, 2002).]

When Programming a macro, use the mute button instead of the power button. The manual is wrong on page 40. But a note on page 38 correctly defines how to program with the mute button.

Thanks, I read that after posting. Now the macros work, but only if I hit "AUD" first. It appears that the macros are different for each device. Kind of cool, because it gives me a lot more macros, but kind of crappy because it means that I have to tell people to hit "AUD" before powering on.

BTW I've spent some time programming the Outlaw remote and so far I'm fairly impressed with it. It is the same Home Theater Master remote that my Sherwood Newcastle 9080 preamp came with, but I never took the time to set that one up, and truth be told, the Sherwood implementation of the remote was not as good as the Outlaw implementation (despite having the LCD). I have a little directions paper in my Home Theater for people to read about how to use the system. The Outlaw seems much easier to use than the old Sherwood was.

I'm hoping to find a OneForAll or Radio Shack remote in my stocking this Christmas.

If I download the JP1 software can I get any of my JP1 remotes (I have two - a Producer8 and an old Radio Shack non-learning 6 device remote with LCD screen that looks like a mini-Producer8) to work with the 950?

There are two sets of macros -- one set for the top row of inputs (AUD, CD, DVD, and TAPE), and one for the bottom row of inputs (SAT, TV, VCR, CBL). Sneaky, but potentially handy. I set up the TV/cable box on/off macros M1 and M2 on both rows to make it a little more foolproof, but have some other macros that are only on one row or the other.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

Not sure about the RS remote, but I certainly think the Producer8 would work. I know it seems ridiculous, but you should now be able to teach the 950 remote discrete codes for things like poweron and poweroff for not only the 950 itself, but also any of your other components, which often have unadvertised discrete codes. Sony TVs and Panasonic DVDs come to mind. The only thing you'll need is to either make or buy a JP1 cable.


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Home theater: the hobby the whole family can enjoy - whether they want to or not

So Phil, did the fat man in the red suit bring you that OFA remote?


Thanks for the praise Jim! I did rework the upgrade code this morning to what I think is a layout that made more sense. For those following along, I did update the file at the jp1 group with this new version.

No, no remote under the tree for me this year. That's OK because I'm starting to like the Outlaw remote. Only problem is I need to have my DVD player remote handy for menu functions. Otherwise, for satellite, VCR, LaserDisc, and DVD playing (not menus) it's great. A better implementation than the Sherwood I had before.

Well, I finally got around to trying to program my Cinema 7+ to work with my Outlaw 950 and other gear. No go. There simply is not enough memory on the Cinema 7+ to handle all the learned keys that I have to set up. Guess I may be remote shopping.

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Philip Hamm

Hi Phil,
Unless you're just making an excuse to buy a new-fangled remote , this is where making a $10 JP1 cable (or buying for $15 or so), can help you. You don't use up the memory when reprogramming the remote using the JP1, and Ellen has made a very nice keymaster spreadsheet just for the Cinema 7+ and Outlaw 950 (see my earlier post). Bluedo.com has packages with newer One for all remotes and the jp1 cable, the advantage being you'll have a lot more buttons to program functions to, so you don't have to use the shift key to add more buttons.

I don't think I have either the patience or the time to screw around with the JP1 stuff. I've thought about it but I don't think it's worth the trouble to me.

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Philip Hamm

Phil,

I'm sorry to hear that you've given up on using your Cinema 7+ remote and the jp1 stuff. Jim is right; I've already done the hard part in creating the upgrade code. Doing the jp1 thing would probably have taken less time than you've already spent messing around with the 950 remote, and that includes 10 minutes to solder the header into the remote and 2 minutes to download the IR software

Oh well, let me know if you ever change your mind and I'd be happy to send the codes you need to paste into the IR program to upload to your C7+ remote.

E

Is there a way to make the 950 remote use the play, stop, pause, FF, REW, for what they are labeled for and have them also perform the directional functions when in that mode of operation, I think this is called transport?

Right now I just use the SAT button for the transport functions on the DVD player. I am not sure if that is the best way to do it with the 950 remote.

I am thinking of buying the ProntoNEO if I don't hear of a better way to use the 950 remote.

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MeanGene's Home

[This message has been edited by MeanGene (edited January 04, 2003).]

Considering that I've read some of the FAQ, downloaded some software, and already spent hours starting to get a handle on JP1 I'd say you're wrong there.

Maybe with the JP1 knowledge and experience that YOU already have it would take less time, but I'm starting from scratch on JP1. The Yahoo group is very difficult to navigate and use, I wish there were better resources out there. I may give it a try as I have a couple backlit JP1 remotes that I do like a lot.

However, I'm thinking that I can set up my Cinema 7+ learning just volume for my DVD players and be good to go.

Other than the transport/menu problem I'm finding that I like the Outlaw remote. It works great for my RCA DirecTV system.

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Philip Hamm

[This message has been edited by Philip Hamm (edited January 06, 2003).]

Hi Phil,
I was also put off by the FAQ, and you can make things as complicated as you want, but I found it surprisingly easy to get it working. I was on my way to re-discovering how to program the codes for the 950 (which are very similar to the ones for the 1050) when Ellen came to the rescue and sent me the file with all the button definitions for the Cinema 7 remote (which can be easily converted to any other JP1 compatible remote). Since you only need the cable, you could consider this place which sells them for $18 (with shipping): Hovis . There's a more readable JP1 introduction there as well. JP1 for beginners


[This message has been edited by tofufot (edited January 14, 2003).]

oops

[This message has been edited by tofufot (edited January 06, 2003).]

Phil, my original comment was made mostly tongue in cheek (hence the smiley). I meant no offense or disrespect. And I apologize if I sounded high handed. My point was that you don't have to do any research. I've already done the hard work (setting up the 950 upgrade code). Your goal is just to get the 950 codes into the remote. All you need to do is solder a header into your C7+; download the IR program from the Yahoo groups file area (which it seems you have already done); run it; download your current config from your remote using IR; paste in the set up info for the 950 (which I can send to you); upload this new config to your remote. And that's it. Of course if you later want to make use of the other benefits of jp1 stuff, that would be more work. But that's not what I thought you were after.

But if you are happy with your 950 remote, great. I'm certainly not trying to force you to do jp1




[This message has been edited by Ellen (edited January 07, 2003).]

I just learned the transport functions on a different device that I was not using like SAT. But, I have an MX500 on order.

Ellen, can you email me the files that will help me configure an MX500 with the URC 8811. I can't get into that Yahoo group, although it says that I am a member.


[This message has been edited by MeanGene (edited January 14, 2003).]

Put me in the club of people put off by JP1. I just tried downloading the "Keymap master" Excel spreadsheet and the 950 remote codes file from the JP1 Yahoo group. Tried to run the spreadsheet; enabled macros, and got the message that I have to have the "Excel Analysis Toolpak Add in" installed.

Well, I tried everything I could to install that component using the Win 2K control panel but it just won't happen.

So...

I am *really* interested in the discrete codes that you discovered, including the discrete power on and off; are there any other magic discrete codes, Ellen, that you discovered? Like controlling the multi-zone source selection?

Anyway that anybody could take this and turn it into a .ccf or .ncf Pronto or ProntoNeo file and post it in Remote Central?

I'd try more, but it appears that the version of Excel we have installed at the office won't let me install that bloody "analysis toolpak" add in.

Ah yes.. Forgot this nuisance. You'll need your original Microsoft Office (or Excel) installation CD to install the analysis toolpak, and then once it's installed, to make sure it's activated when you start Excel (from the Add-in selection under the Tools menu). The toolpak is not installed with a default installation of Excel. Also, this spreadsheet doesn't work properly on Macs, unfortunately.

If you do break down and go with the Pronto, here's a link to some ccf files for the 950. I can't vouch for them, but the first one from Brett had codes that worked for me when I transposed them to the OFA remote, but then Ellen came to the rescue with a nice keymap master file. I'll have to wait till I get back home to see if I can get the discrete codes to work with manual entry on a URC remote to see if they're worth posting separately.

Well I finally got into the Yahoo groups and the JP1 group. When I download from the link I get a txt file for the Outlaw 950. Am I suppose to import this file into Excel or do I have the wrong file? The I need to get the IP.exe program, right?

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MeanGene's Home

OK, I figured it out. First you should get the IR program. It's in the file section of the JP1 group. Then you need to get the KeyMap Master spreadsheet. Then aquire the OutlawPreamp.txt file which you will open with the Spreadsheet macro functions. The spreadsheet will ask you for the location of the ir.exe and of course you will have to have the Outlaw_Preamp.txt file to have something to work with. Then I would go over to Bluedo and pick up a 8811 remote or better yet the MX500 with 8811 package.

I hope this helps.

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MeanGene's Home

You got it. Sorry I wasn't more explicit about this stuff, which is explained in the JP1 site and the keymap master readme file. Since there are more buttons with the 8811, you have added flexibility over the Cinema 7+ and can use the spreadsheet to reassign button functions.

With the IR program you can use the computer to set the 'punch through' for volume or channel up and down on the 8811. This is not of any help with the MX-500, but is handy in case anyone in the household prefers the simplicity of the 8811.

I checked just to be sure, but the discrete codes won't work without reprogramming the remote with the 950 keymap master spreadsheet. In effect what you're doing with the JP1 stuff is creating an OEM remote for a new device.

The JP1 site has a new spreadsheet called protocol builder, which I haven't played with, but which looks to be able to give you more flexibility to create remote codes. It also seems to give you enough power to get into a lot of trouble if you don't know what you're doing.

[This message has been edited by tofufot (edited January 14, 2003).]

Sorry folks, I've been terribly busy with work the last few days and haven't been keeping up with this thread. If any of you want the Keymap Master file but can't get the toolpak installed, let me know and I can create the 950 text file for the 8811 remote for you (though I think Jim may have one as he uses the 8811).

As to discrete codes, I didn't find anything secret. My understanding is that there are no codes available that are not programmed into the remote. All I did was learn every button on the remote and capture those codes. I simply created from them an upgrade code that can be loaded into any jp1 capable remote.

In case I don't get back to this thread soon, if you have a question email me at pudah at yahoo dot com and I'll see what I can do to assist.

Is this because the MX-500 can learn the 950 remote 'punch through' function or because the MX-500 cannot be programmed to do this, or something different?

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MeanGene's Home

The MX-500 can be told to punch through volume or channel functions of another device just like the 950 remote. For that matter you can do that on the URC remotes too, but with the computer you can do all the punch throughs in one fell swoop, saving your weary thumbs from all that poking. Not really a big advantage, but really time saving (after the hours spent figuring out how to do it ).
Like I mentioned, the coolest thing with the JP1 is the ability to get those discrete codes such as power-on and power-off, and for my Sony HS10 HDTV, discrete codes for the different video inputs (e.g. video 5 for component input). So, with the ability of the MX-500 to store up to 15 macros (of up to 20 steps each), you should have a lot of flexibility to configure a macro for all of your devices and preferred audio setups.
For the budget minded, the URC8811/JP1 combo ($40) is really flexible and could serve as an acceptable and economical substitute for the 950 remote. It can take care of one peeve several have with the 950 remote: turning on the 950 with the punch of any of the device buttons. Now you can have just one remote that's reasonably intuitive and can be programmed or taught all the codes of pretty much any IR device. The disadvantage with the 8811 is that you can't edit the button labels like you can on the MX-500.

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Home theater: the hobby the whole family can enjoy - whether they want to or not

I'm getting tired of having to cover up the 950's remote when I want to control a different device without switching to that same device hooked up to the corresponding input on the 950.

So, is this possible, using a 8811, I could select different remote devices to emulate without also telling the Outlaw 950 to switch to that input as its remote does (and drives me up the frikkin' wall)?

Could I re-assign the number keys as inputs on the 950 when I pick one the 8811's device buttons as the button for controlling the 950?

Also, is there any remotes that control more than 8 devices? I think I'm up to over 8 now:

TV
DVD1
DVD2
LD
HDTV
PVR1
PVR2
VCR
Prepro

I guess I could take out the VCR remote, and use its remote once in a blue moon.


[This message has been edited by patman (edited January 20, 2003).]

This is what drove me to seek an alternative to the 950 remote. Although I haven't reprogrammed the 8811 as extensively as it sounds like you were asking, it should be quite possible. The JP1 and accessory free software pretty much allow you almost endless flexibility to assign functions to keys, so you could assign a number key to control a 950 function that you normally would need to first press AUD for. For example when you're playing a CD you could assign a number (or any other) key to go to 6 channel mode or bypass mode. Then, you don't need to hit the CD device key again to regain control of the CD player, whereas if you do this on the 950 remote you switch back to the direct digital input unless you cover the remote transmitter. It's also easy to create new macros instead of tedious step by step learning.

The MX-500 (about $100) has 10 device keys. The nice thing with this remote is that for each device you have 20 editable labels (on the LCD panel) that you can assign to special functions as you are asking about with the 8811, but since you now can edit the labels, not only you, but anyone else using the remote, can see what the button does.

If you're rolling in dough, the $500 MX-700 is directly computer programmable, so you don't need the JP1 stuff, and it controls up to 20 devices.

I don't know much about it, but the Harmony remote looks pretty interesting for about $250.

[This message has been edited by tofufot (edited January 20, 2003).]