Acurus/Mondial ACT3 Pre/Pro

Does anyone know anything about the Acurus/Mondial ACT pre/pro? I've stumbled upon it on the net and don't know anything about it. Your input would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Mix

Older DD/DTS/DPL pre/pro.

I think there is an upgrade you can get from Klipsch/Mondial to bring it up to DD EX/DTS-ES/DPL II.

Thanks Kevin,
It does appear to be upgradeable. Any idea of it's quality? There are some really good deals out there.
Mix

In it's day when it was first introduced a few years ago, the ACT was a budget pre/pro, not a high-end pre/pro. It had lots of bang for the buck. There were some problems with it at first, I think but those problems were by in large fixed, over the years. That's my recollection.

If you do get the ACT-3 make sure it's been fixed. Some of the earlier ACT-3's hissed and buzzed. Here are some of the reviews on the ACT-3 version 2, from audioreivew.com, dated 1998:

Thanks for the info,
Between the two, the 950 would appear to be the winner. Any info on the Aragon SoundStage pre/pro?
The reason for all of the questions is that both items are currently available on Ubid.
Mix

It was good in its day but has been around since I think, 1999. The newer DACs, etc. are generally better. Do you want DPL II?

[This message has been edited by Will (edited August 17, 2002).]

I'm not overly impressed with DPL. I anticipate an improvement with DPL II. I haven't heard it though. Without hearing it, I think that I want DPL II. I'm still on the list for the 950, but am open to other options. Rotel, Anthem, etc.
Mix

If you don't mind I'd like to jump in here.
The ACT 3 was a very good piece, and it was, up until recently, a recommended component. They did come out with an upgrade for it to get it current with the latest processing. I think it will set you back about $900.00.

[This message has been edited by Maximum7 (edited August 18, 2002).]

Thanks for all of the info everyone. I wish Outlaw would make this decision easier by just resuming shipping of the 950. I'd purchase one within five minutes of notification.
'till next time,
Mix

The trick with the ACT-3, is to buy one, but then get the upgrade. They swap out all the internals. I think the upgrade is somewhere between $600 - $900. A lot of info on it on the Klipsch Mondial/Acurus forum.

Costs more than the Outlaw, but then again, might be available now. Plus, to me, has better asthetics.

I looked into it, but the ACT-3 doesn't have a digital record out, and the upgrade won't change that. Also, no bass management on the 5.1 analog inputs.

Thanks Kevin.
Mix
(I think the Aragon SoundStage at $1800.00 is going to be impossible to beat)

[This message has been edited by MixFixJ (edited August 18, 2002).]

Can you get the Aragon SoundStage with DPL II? If not, would you be ok without it?

[This message has been edited by Will (edited August 18, 2002).]

The SoundStage is due for an upgrade to all of the latest formats in the next few months. I was all over the net this weekend. There are even more processors than the Acurus ACT3 and the Aragon SoundStage out there for between 1200.00 to 3500.00 with varying feature sets. If you look hard enough, and that just means access to the right search engines, you can find some interesting options. After chasing and studying a few of these options, I'm finding that the ability to upgrade the software and firmware of the system to be of more importance to me than before. I'll tell you, more choices do not make the buying decision easier! If the Outlaw 950 was the only choice within the 800.00 to 2500.00 price range then it would be a no brainer. That just isn't the case. And considering the lack of availability of the 950, it's going to be hard to stay with Outlaw. As I've stated before, I'm currently using the 1050 as a pre/pro, and it's great for what it is. I am just tired of waiting for a higher grade pre/pro to match my other system components. I listen to music every day and it's important to me. I utilize my HT just about as often. To wait to improve my listening experience out of some sense of loyalty to Outlaw, and to what was a perceived lack of affordable options becomes more ludicrous (sp.) by the day.
With all of that said, I STILL haven't made a final (for this upgrde) decision!
Mix

Mix

Mix,

Another option to put in the mix (excuse the pun) is a used 950. Based on some threads here and elsewhere, some people are selling them. It's probably no more of a hassle for you to upgrade a used 950 than to upgrade a used Acurus ACT3 or Aragon SoundStage. The 950 upgrade would be a one-timer to fix its hiss. But if you want the option of more firmware upgrades over the life of the pre/pro, I imagine the cheapest "current" DPL II pre/pro with that option, may be the Rotel 1066.

Will

Some months ago the Soundstage was being blown out at $1500 new by Mondail on UBID. It's supposed to be an excellent Pre/Pro with one of the best 2 channel amp sections of any pre/pro.

I wish I got in on that deal - it's definitely a no-brainer for $1500 - its MSRP was $4000.

As for DLP2? So far I've been undewhelmed with it and would take the audiophile 2 channel performance of the Soundstage over the newer formats in a heartbeat. It's supposed to be quite an amazing performer in DD and DTS as well.

Hello HT,
You've summed up my impressions about the SoundStage. I missed the last one on Ubid. If I see another, I'll grab it. Or, if the 950 ships soooner, it'll get the nod. If anyone's interested, I'll keep you posted as to my results. Everyone, thanks for your time.
Mix (Jeff)

It may be best to believe the upgrade schedule when it occurs. Talk to the Outlaw upgrade waiters and the Anthem upgrade waiters. A bird in the hand....

Very True. I wish that I had the 950 'bird' in hand. But.............
Mix

Hey guys,
I was just on Audiogon.com and there is an Acurus act3 for sale for $675.00. Just posted today. Thought I'd let any interested parties know.
Good luck
Marc

As long as we're talking upmarket stuff anyone want to compare or contrast the Sunfire TG3, Ref30 and Anthem AVM20 with the above mentioned units?

The 950 issues are starting to worry me - I'm looking into alternates.

I just purchased a brand new Aragon SoundStage with a two year manufacturers warranty! $1700.00 including shipping. Boy, am I excited. Just like Christmas. Sorry Outlaws, I'll keep an eye on the upcoming products.
Mix

That's an almost 4 year old pre/pro. Like cars and receivers, pre/pro's go down in value, quite a bit, with age. And unless it's updated, a pre/pro that old is somewhat out of date, compared to the newer models.

I might get a 4 year old amplifier, to save some money. Amplifiers don't change as much. But pre/pro's and receivers (the pre/pro part of receivers, that is) do change with time, noticably. Good luck!

I think the 24 bit Crystal DAC's (one per channel) and the Class A analog preamp will sound just fine. And it has been upgraded to the latest formats. Also, it has individual levels and crossovers per channel, 6 channel input, three isolated power supplies with an unused fourth for future, RS232 input and output for upgrades, etc. I'll suffer through somehow.
Mix

I bet.

Charlie

Charlie,
Yeah...I've been looking at the TG III and Anthem AVM 20.
I'm not as worried about the Outlaw "issues", cause I truly believe that they will be resolved. WHEN is the big question and problem for me.
I was at my local B&M store today. They carry Sunfire, but are phasing them out for the Anthem line !! Damn the bad luck !!
They had a TG II (demo) but it lacks alot of the features I want. The TG III specs are awesome, and it appears quite flexible/upgradable.
I'm confused on the AVM specs, but I'll figure it out.

Mix,
Congrats on your new X-mas present, and on the restoration of your mental health
I don't know if I'm right behind you, or not.

I'm going to solve 90% of the outstanding 950 issues with outboard processing anyway, but the double bass on the analog inputs is a bit troubling since I'm seriously thinking about a DVD-A player. That one I don't think I can work around and I hear the Rotel and other Cirrus based units have a similar issue.

So the Motorola stuff looks better all the time (Ref30,Sunfire,etc) from that standpoint. B&K seems to be very loyal to their customers regarding upgrades and such.

OTOH if I only listen to the DD soundtracks on DVD-A the double bass is not an issue....


Charlie

Personally I wish Outlaw had gone 'straight through' with the analog inputs and offered a deep family discount on an ICBM for any that need it.

[This message has been edited by charlie (edited August 19, 2002).]

EFSIII,
Thanks. I just got tired of waiting, found what I hope is a good deal, and went for it. I know that there are others that have been on the waiting list longer than me, but with an open-ended ship date on the 950, I jumped. Of course I will be second guessing my decision until I have the new unit in my rack, but what are you gonna' do? I know that at the very least I got an incredible preamp, with highly-rated decoding, for a third the price of the MSRP. That's because it's last year's model. This years model has new cosmetics and 7.1 capability. The cool part is that the system architecture is setup so that everything except the jackfield can be upgraded. That includes software, firmware, and hardware. I hope it works as good in reality as it does on paper.
Good luck on whatever decision you finally make.
Mix

That's very cool. Is there a website to find out what's been upgraded (software and hardware) on the Aragon Soundstage over the years, since it first came out?

Hopefully they'll have a DPL II upgrade soon, if you decide you wish to check out DPL II. Actually I kind of agree with those who say DPL II is over-hyped. But it's still an improvement over straight DPL.

As I mentioned in another thread- I think this double bass issue is way overblown. Sure, bass management could have been handled differently. Or- they could have handled it like most others have by more or less ignoring the issue. I believe once you set up your 950 in your system you will not hear problems that one might theoretically expect. I don't- with large or small settings.
The Outlaws said it better than I can in "The Official Model 950 Bass Management Thread" This is copyrighted, so I hope they don't mind me posting it again here:

Admin said:
(Bold type mine.)

I hope they start shipments soon so that all can decide if there is a problem in reality with double bass in their own systems.

They are probably right for most people, but my case is probably different that most. I have in essence a subwoofer dedicated to each channel plus three on LFE, so *I* will have 2 subwoofer systems outputting the same bass, one on the dedicated directional channel and the LFE subs. So while the vast majority of systems will have something like 1.2 or 1.5 times bass I will be hearing true double bass. A bit of extra bass isn't the worst thing to happen, and it may not be annoying. For the difference in $$$ I _may_ decide the 950 is still worthwhile, but maybe not.

The double bass, the lack of relabelable inputs, the reports of poor s-video switching, etc. are beginnning to make me think I would just be a lot better off with a different unit. I'm still pondering it.

Just my $0.02

Will,
You can find the SoundStage at the Klipsch Homepage. Klipsch.com, then click on the Aragon link. Klipsch bought Aragon/Mondial Designs last year. They only show the latest version of the SoundStage on the site. It has DPLII etc. I'm going to contact them in the next few weeks about upgrading to DPLII after I receive my unit.
Mix

Mix; wish you all the best with your new processor. Your posts have always been a fun, interesting and entertaining read!
Sorry for hi-jacking your thread!
Steve

[This message has been edited by steves (edited August 19, 2002).]

Thanks, Mix (Jeff). I looked there but the only multi-channel pre/pro I could find there is the Aragon Stage One, which as you said has DPLII. Will you be able to upgrade your Aragon Soundstage pre/pro to have the latest features? I was not able to find any information about that, on their site.

Will

Steves- There is a thread on HTF now where Dre has a method with the ICBM of fixing the double bass issue on the Rotel. The same fix will work on the 950. In at least one case, the user reported that he *did* hear a substantial improvement in his system when the full range 5.1 inputs were handled correctly.

For people with genuine full range speakers all around, this can be a real issue.

Will,
the SoundStage is on the Klipsch site under Products/Mondial Classics/Aragon. I've just downloaded the manual. I can even upgrade to 7.1. Too cool!
Mix
Steves, no sweat about the hijack-enjoy

Where is HTF?



Yep. Although 3 db boosted bass isn't horrible, I'd rather not have it.

Damn. I hope I am wrong, but I want to hug... nevermind...

merc.....?

Just kiddin' Are All you kid's Okay?

I'm laughing out loud and I don't even know why.....

Hey, you know, it just occured to me that somewhere inside the 950 is a tiny little trace that's carrying that bass to the LFE summing circuit..... 10 seconds with an x-acto knife.....


Hmmmm




[This message has been edited by charlie (edited August 20, 2002).]

What do you guys think about the Ref 30? The Magnolia HiFi stores around here are closing them out for like $2000.00. (the sales guy said they were coming out with some new stuff some time, but probably with a higher price piont). I like some of the features like a bass eq that analyzes room responses and you can adjust it to filter it out. An adjustable crossover with slope. You can also adjust the levels of the sub and other channels on the fly from the remote. It isn't DTS ES or PRO II but isn't B&K pretty good about upgrades?
Also is it ok to only have a 6 ch. input or do you need 7?
I just don't wanna pass up a deal like this but then what about when Sept. comes around? What if all the other new products are good but cost way too much? What if they are a good price point, but offer the quality and then I passed up a good deal on a B&K?
Excuse me I'm gonna go throw up.

Gee. Was that sarcasm? What a concept.

You should be able to find Ref 30's for closer to $1700. In fact, there is a guy on Audiogon advertising the (presumably) soon-to-be-released Ref 50 for only $2300.

As far as I know, the Ref 30 does not have DD EX, DTS-ES, DPL II, etc.

I'm also looking at B&K (either a 30 or 50) or the Sunfire TG3. Anyone know much regarding these.

I've heard that B&K is great about tradeups, but Sunfire not so much. Care to weigh in?

It says on the front of the unit that it is DD-EX but not ES. It seems like manufacturers don't trust the guys at DTS as readily as they do over at Dolby. They were slow to adopt it in the first place. Lack of software maybe? Then when people start saying it sounds better then it's, oh yeah here's a newer model you have to buy.
Anyway, I think I would rather pay $200.00 more to get the B&K brand new in box where I can go to return it if I don't like it or if it cheeses out than go to Audiogon.
Sarcasm? Not intentional. If Outlaw was charging $2000.00 for a pre-pro then I'd expect it to have those kind of features as well.

[This message has been edited by Maximum7 (edited August 21, 2002).]

Max7,
Sorry about my incorrect perception.
Mix