Problem Playing Harry Potter DVD Chamber

Hi all:

Anyone out there having problems with the new Harry Potter DVD? Specifically, the sound cuts out repeatedly on my 1050 and the DD5.1 signal light blinks. Seems like it is having a tough time locking on to the signal. I have tried 2 players and my HTPC and the same thing. I was gonna bring the dvd back when I saw a thread on dvdtalk.com posted by a fellow Outlaw owner.

VTS

Well.....

Read a few old threads and tried turning the center channel on under speaker configuration (even though i dont have a rear center) and it seems to work fine now. Go figure....but I'm happy :-).

Outlaw Folks may want to try this out and post it to people because I can see alot of worry about this starting to brew up.

VTS

Hello All,

The new Harry Potter Chamber of Secrets DVD uses the same EX flag software as Pearl Harbor, JP III and Atlantis. 1050 owners have a work around for the EX dropout issue simply by activating the 6.1 processing. For those of you with 5.1 speaker systems you will want to turn the center surround speaker "on" in the speaker configuration menu first.

Best,

Scott

[This message has been edited by Scott (edited April 16, 2003).]

I had the same problem. But forgot to turn on my center channel speaker so I could not get the 6.1 to work. I did not figure it out until I read this. Bummer I watched the movie with out the 1050!!!!

[This message has been edited by AlexH (edited April 14, 2003).]

I bought Jurassic Park III. Intro and future release preview worked fine. When It got to the movie soundtrack the sound would go dead for about 2 seconds. This would occur about every minute or so through out the movie. I was using the optic output for digital audio. I hooked up the analog outputs for 5.1 and played the sound thru that. It worked fine .
Is this the same problem you mentioned ?

Hello Keith,

Yes, this is the same issue. The discs that contain the incompatible EX flag software are Pearl Harbor, JP III, Atlantis and HP Chamber of Secrets.

Scott

Scott: Can you be more specific on what settings you should set the 1050 to, to resolve this problem and indicate whether this is a permanent solution for all movies. And if not what we settings we should use for each type. In my case I tried the 3 different methods listed below and all were lacking. In particular I am wondering if there is a lose of a lot of sound informaton when there is no rear center speaker. The closest comparison I can come to is if you were listening to a system without a center channel speaker and did not turn on a phantom center channel. Only a small amount of very specific directional signal is audible.

1) I had my 1050 set to 5.1 using 5 speakers fed by my DVD's optical input (it doesn't have coax). I found the surround sound to be excellent but subject to random dropouts like everyone else's. I gave up after 5 minutes.

2) I rewired my system and actually watched the movie using the DVD player's normal 2 channel analog output and the 1050's Dolby Prologic setting. The rear sound info was about what you would expect.

3) After seeing a post about this problem last night on another board, I restored the original wiring and reconfigured the 1050 to have a non-existant rear center and changed it to use the Optical Digital signal. The 1050 seemed to go to 6.1 mode automatically. I don't recall anything about DTS showing up. While this cured the dropout problem, I thought that with one or two exceptions the rear audio signal was completely lacking. No volume, virtually dead and ultimately less satisfying then the prologic scenario.

For what its worth, I had just gone through the AVIA disk and balanced my rear speakers to the fronts. They are now +9DB and normally very noticable when watching regular 5.1 movies.

[This message has been edited by 73Bruin (edited April 26, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by 73Bruin (edited April 27, 2003).]

73Bruin

You've got the speaker setup configured properly to prevent the bug, although the 6.1 mode seems odd. I don't remember having my 1050's "6.1 Surround" mode come on by itself, but it's been a year or so since I last used it. The previous discussions of this flag problem indicated that it generally did not come on automatically (a good thing, since the people having the problem didn't have a sixth speaker). If it is coming on for you, you might try manually turning 6.1 Surround back off.

------------------
gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

I am afraid my experience doesn't match what you are saying. I rechecked and retested my configuration twice, wrote this note, tested again and edited it so it exactly matched what I am seeing. If you can tell me what I did wrong I would appreciate it. The chronology of what happens is listed below.

For what its worth, while I would like to fix the problem without getting a rear center speaker, if doing so is utimately the best solution for what might appear to be a whole parade of dvd's the 1050 can't handle properly, then I would like to know that (if nothing else to prepare the better half). Also if there are different releases of 1050 firmware, such that a out of warranty service will solve the problem, I would like to know that. Also for what its worth, I didn't notice this problem using the 1050 and Pearl Harbor or JP III.

0) System configured for the rear center on. Note, the 1050 display shows the Center surround (CS) light as off even though tabbing through the speaker configuration shows it on. Dolby 6.1 shows as off. The only connection (audio or video)from my DVD (a Panasonic RP56)to the 1050 is Optical Digital #1. The 1050 displays Dolby Digital

1) Insert HP CoS and hit play. The 1050 display continues to shows Dolby Digital while the intro plays and the surround sound is great.

The HP CoS menu comes up and the 1050 displays Dolby prologic while the DVD waits for me to hit enter or play.

2) I hit enter and the DVD starts playing the movie. The 1050 returns to Dolby Digital and the surround sound is fine. A few seconds into the movie, there is a single dropout and the 1050 lights up on its own in Dolby Surround 6.1 mode. The 1050's CS light comes on. When this happens the rear surround volume level drops substantially.

3) I attempt to return to Dolby Digital and the hit the 6.1 button on the 1050, the Dolby Surround 6.1 mode display drops and is replaced by a Dolby Digital display on the 1050. When this happens the CS light on the 1050 goes off. The surround sound level seems to rise but a few seconds later, the audio drops and my 1050 again displays Dolby Surround 6.1 and the CS light is on again. Again, the volume level of the surround sound is significantly lower than before.

4) I repeat test 3, using the 6.1 button on the 1050 remote. The same experience happens again.

6) I recalibrate my 1050 surround settings with the 1050 display showing Dolby surround 6.1 on using the Avia (which for what its worth doesn't seem to support 6.1). I now have the right rear set at +10db the left at +9.

7) I replay HP. CoS and this time leaving the 1050 in Dolby Surround Sound 6.1 mode. Again the rear seems low as if a lot of the signal is missing. FWIW, when the scene in HP COS where Harry is rescued from the Dursleys comes on, there is a very brief burst (2-3 seconds ) of strong surround sound as the flying car moves around. Otherwise the rear sound is very minimal.

[This message has been edited by 73Bruin (edited April 26, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by 73Bruin (edited April 26, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by 73Bruin (edited April 27, 2003).]

I agree with 73 Bruin, the exact same thing happens to me too. But to me it seems like the surrounds loose alot of information on EX encoded DVD's too. For example like Star Wars DVD when I switch to 6.1 all the surround info seems to get collapsed to the rear surround and the R + L surround speakers DB drops. So I don't use 6.1 with the outlaw and just listen to movies in 5.1. because it seems to sound better that way.

I just read a review of the new "Hunt for the Red October" DVD on dvdfile.com. It seems the reviewer noticed a problem with the EX processing on the DVD. He describes it as a shift in the balance of the surrounds requiring an adjustment of the gain of his center surround.

Just wanted to bring this up as it shows the issue of surround processing problems with DD EX may be more software related than hardware related.

I've watched Episodes I and II using 6.1 surround and haven't noticed any issues. Then again, I haven't been all that impressed with the sound on those movies. I just haven't agreed with some of sound effects choices.

Johnathan: Can you please confirm, if I am reading your post correctly and what I believe you are inferring.

1) You have a rear center channel speaker. 2) When you play an EX coded DVD the db level for the left and right surrounds drops with the result being most of the rear information is focused on the rear center.

If so, do you get bursts of strongly directional sound at the correct sound level from your right and level rear surrounds?

To me this would be potentially indicative that the 1050 is handling 6.1 information correctly (by moving general non specific rear information to the rear center) and only giving the right and left surrounds more than a minimal signal when appropriate.

If I am correct, the flaw in 5.1 processing is the problem. If true the workaround is flawed because it would be equivalent to listening to a front configuration without a center channel and without turning on phantom mode to simulate this speaker by redirecting the signals to left and right fronts.

Of course, everyone could be right (for their 1050) if there are differences in 1050 signal processing firmware in how the 1050 handled 6.1 sound.

To answer bruin73's question. No I don't get "strong" directional sounds from my R and L rears when 6.1 is on, if it did I wouldn't mind and use the 6.1 mode. But with 6.1 on, the L and R speakers db seems to acutally drop a couple of levels.
And I agree with u that there isn't a work around to the EX problem on the Harry potter DVD or any other DVD's with the EX flag problem. Because if you leave the center surround on without a actual speaker there then won't you be loosing all the info that's being taken from the Rear L+R and being sent to the Rear Center? Also I tried gonk's suggestion by just setting the center rear "on" and not using the outlaw's 6.1 processing, but that doesn't work either because the receiver automatically keeps turning back on 6.1 if the center surround it set to on. So unfortunately DVD's like Harry potter that doesn't come with a DTS track can't be played "properly" unless u have a rear center speaker. But then still for me still doesn't sound.

Some others around here (such as Soundhound) may be able to help more on this, but the way I understand 6.1 (including the 1050's Surround 6.1, the 950's Cirrus Extra Surround, and Dolby Digital EX), the surround channels are reduced by 3dB because some of the information is being re-routed to the surround back channel(s). Taken from this article : "Surround Centre information is split equally between Surround Left and Surround Right with a drop of 3dB (needed to maintain a correct level when the signal is extracted)"



If the Surround 6.1 processing is kicking in automatically (as it seems to be on Chamber of Secrets), I certainly agree. But this problem originally appeared on three different movies in late 2001, and none of them seemed to override the user and automatically enable Surround 6.1. Hence the confusion (at least on my part) with this issue recently.

For people with 6.1 speaker setups who are still experiencing some trouble, it may be possible to re-visit their speaker calibration to make sure they have things balanced well. If the surrounds are a little on the low side or the surround back is low, it would not be surprising at all for the entire rear soundstage to wimp out on you in Surround 6.1. I can't guarantee that it'll solve the problem, but it's worth a try if you haven't tried it already.

------------------
gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

I am with Gonk. I own Pearl Harbor and have not experienced any drop outs with the CS on, but I also have never had the 6.1 turn itself on (in fact I have never used it). I have never experienced that, but I also have not watched HP. Maybe this only happens with HP? I believe that you would be pleased if the 6.1 did not turn itself on or you could turn it off (assuming you do not have a cs speaker). Then I think your issue would be resolved. Wish I had HP to check it out for you....but maybe someone else can.

My hope in posting to this thread (and calling Outlaw technical support) was to hopefully get some direction on what 1050 owners options are. You would think that someone at Outlaw had the disk and could bring into the "Office" to test and then let us know.

Unfortunately, I am not sensing that anyone from Outlaw is even working on the issue. I certainly haven't even had an email, or a post to this thread that indicates that they are testing and have at least confirmed the situation. I am not thrilled with a response that says in effect "What a lousy sound track". I would like to point out that Outlaws specification sheet for the 1050 says (minus the trademarks)

"The Model 1050 uses a proprietary 61. algorihtm developed by Outlaw and chipmaker Zoran Corporation. This processing is 100 percent compatible with all Dolby Surround EX 6-1 channel theatrical soundtracks."

It doesn't say all but a few.

I seriously doubt that Outlaw is ignoring this issue. It would be a departure from their previous customer service policies. On the other hand, the original solution to the problem (which was traced back to Dolby's software, not to any hardware manufacturers) was tested internally and very quietly. They contacted an original 1050 beta tester (everybody wave to Pat!) for external verification, but otherwise kept pretty quiet about it. The first we knew of their efforts was a post here documenting the solution. The current problem appears somewhat stickier, but I very much doubt that Outlaw is shrugging their shoulders and saying "bummer." If you want some confirmation on this, I'd recommend a phone call (866-688-5292) or e-mail ( info@outlawaudio.com ) to Outlaw to quiz them about it. With their "hands-off" policy in this forum, they are unlikely to directly involve themselves in the debate until they have some sort of answer for us.



It was also written before this EX flag cropped up and caused headaches for most every proprietary 6.1 "EX clone" developed between 1999 and late 2001 (when Dolby finally allowed licensing of Dolby EX). As I've said here before, I'm disappointed to see Warner even using this EX flag on a title after all the trouble it originally caused -- there are quite a few receivers out there that are susceptible to it, not just the 1050.

Anybody heard how the Onkyo receivers are coping with Chamber of Secrets? There were at least as hard-hit by it originally as the 1050 was.

------------------
gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

Hello 73Bruin,

An e-mail was sent to you yesterday to inform you of our continual attention into this issue. I have not posted it here out of respect for your e-mail address privacy. However, it did indicate that we were continuing to look into this issue and that we would be getting back to you with more details as soon as possible.

Scott

Scott: There must be some confusion on my email address. The one in my profile is correct. I just tested it from my company email. Possibly I miscommunciated this when I called in. However, I did check my email last night and again this morning before posting.

I do not have a CS speaker but I have it turned on on the 1050. My DVD player is connected via optical and set to bitstream. If I play a 5.1 movie, the 1050 displays the word "Digital" and the CS speaker light is OFF. Everything sounds good. If I play HPCOS or Terminator II Ultimate which are encoded in 5.1 EX, the 1050 displays "Digital Surround 6.1" and the CS speaker light is ON. If I hit the "SURR 6.1" button on the 1050, the display returns to "Digital" and the CS light goes OFF but as soon as there is some CS content, these automatically revert to "Digital Surround 6.1" and CS light ON. The HPCOS soundstage is more toward the front than I would expect. If I switch the DVD player from bitstream to PCM, then Prologic decoding is forced and there are no dropouts. This looks like a software problem, the 1050 is correctly detecting the 5.1 EX signal, but there seems to be a missing block of code:
If EX=TRUE) {
do 6.1 decoding
if CS=ON feed the CS speaker else merge the CS signal with the signal for RS and LS}
else {
do 5.1 decoding
endif

BMOSS:

Thank you for confirming that I am not crazy and that the problem is not isolated to my system.

The same thing happens to me...I have a 5.1 setup with the CS set to on. In HP:COS the mode automatically changes from 5.1 to 6.1.

-BL

Hate to say this, but guess what? The same switch happens to me while playing this disc. Boy, I do hope there aren't any other titles out there encoded like this.

I just ran into this problem and found this topic. I took the movie back once, and almost a second time before I decided to see if others were having this problem. I attempted the work around, and my 1050 also defaults to 6.1, even if you attempt to turn it off. This is definitely not a true work around for those without a center rear speaker. Please keep this topic up to date if anyone is receiving new information from Outlaw. I hope they are truely looking into the problem.

While I'm not sure what progress they have made, I do know that Outlaw is actively looking into the issue (based on some unrelated e-mail correspondence recently).

------------------
gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

Ran in to this very issue with "Die Another Day" and spent the day losing my mind switching optical cables and every setting possible on the DVD player. Guess I should try turning on the rear center channel.

That's an easy fix, just watch Die Another Day in DTS...

-BL

Uhoh...if this is showing up on other discs...not good...

Ah, the return of the flags. Hopefully the "Die Another Day" disc will work with the fix used for the original trio of problem children (Pearl Harbor, Jurassic Park III, Atlantis).

------------------
gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

Why have I not had this problem? I have watched all the above mentioned discs with no issues. I have a 1050 with the center surround off and have had no dropout issues. I did have one very freaky incident: Those of you who have seen the director's cut of the first Star Trek movie will remember Vgers energy weapon that hits the enterprise and whacks out all of their equipment. When this scene happened the first time I watched the movie, when the energy hit the Enterprise my 1050 shut off!!!! It did this three times. Yet, it has never done it since. It was truly freaky to witness. It was as if Vger had turned my 1050 off.

Continuing off topic; A couple years back we were watching "Dante's Peak" and when the volcano erupted a vacuum tube in one of my Acoustat Servo-Charge amps exploded! Talk about realistic special effects - flashes of bright light, foul odors, etc. I half expected to see lava flowing from the vent holes!

Those vacuum tubes didn't happen to be Chinese made, were they?

Just wanted to update this. I finally got a speaker for the rear center channel (not quite what I wanted but close). Volia the probem with signal dropout and volume dropout for the surround channels went away. The viewing overall experience was very good. My oldest daughter couldn't believe the difference. She had thought the DVD was defective and asked if I had finally returned it and got one that worked. And this was before I did any calibration.

I can only assume that Outlaw is still "working" on this problem for 5.1 decoding.

I am having this problem and only running L,C,R config. Any thoughts? I noticed this on "HP" and "Punch Drunk Love". Thanks.

------------------
cj

Is minority report an EX disk? I had severe dropout problems with it and took it back to store thinking it was defective.

The DVDFile.com review lists it as having a Dolby EX soundtrack, a Dolby 2.0 soundtrack, and a DTS-ES (matrix) soundtrack. If the Dolby EX track has a flag problem, the DTS track should still work.

------------------
gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

[i]Minority Report's DD EX track is flagged for auto-detection; for some strange reason, the DTS ES track isn't flagged (it isn't ES discrete 6.1 either).

Best,
Sanjay

Well, it looks like LOTR: The Two Towers has this exact problem as well . . . Any word from Outlaw as to a permanent solution? For me, adding a 6th speaker is out of the question.

According to Scott, just turn the center surround speaker "on" in the speaker configuration menu first. It appears you don't need the speaker to actually be hooked up.
I am looking forward to getting LOTR: The Two Towers and I hope this "fix" works. Please let me know what happens.
I also cannot get a rear center speaker due to positioning problems and WAF issues...

Yes, I did this last night, and the audio dropouts were gone. However, doesn't this mean that all the surround information that's directed to the center surround speaker will be lost?

I watched a good bit of Helm's Deep this way (CS on, 6.1 engaged, but no physical speaker), and indeed my rear soundfield did seem a bit lacking, but I'm no audiophile.

Perhaps there's a way to compensate for this? Possibly cranking the volume of the L & R surrounds?

If the center surround speaker is turned on in the setup (as recommended by Outlaw to avoid the EX flag error) but the "6.1 Surround" mode is not turned on, then no material is sent to the (nonexistent) center surround speaker and no material is taken away from the (hopefully very much existent) surround speakers. If you had the CS speaker on but had not turned 6.1 on, you would have experienced the un-altered Dolby Digital 5.1 soundtrack without dropouts. If 6.1 was on, then you were losing some information. The next time a Dolby 5.1 DVD is playing, turn off 6.1 (the 1050 will remain in 6.1 mode for Dolby Digital sources until switched back to 5.1) -- it will stay off, and you will be good to go. No assembly (or additional speakers) required.

Now, to find time to check out The Two Towers again myself -- it came last night, but season two of Angel also arrived, and Mrs. gonk promptly requested that the first disc find its way to the DVD player.

------------------
gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

Gonk, what you're saying makes perfect sense, but I could've sworn I tried that, but TTT kept *forcing* my 1050 to activate 6.1 mode. I'd shut it off (via the 6.1 button on the front panel), and then 10 seconds later, it would be back on again.

But perhaps I was hallucinating; I'll try it again tonight.

You're not wrong Jabez. TTT does indeed keep forcing the 1050 into 6.1 mode if you have the 6th speaker switched to ON. Without the speaker switched on you get the aforementioned dropouts. It is possible to switch 6.1 off but it only seems to last until there is some 6th speaker action at whihc point it mutes for a quarter of a second and switches 6.1 on. Looks like I'll need to get a 6th speaker now. Not very happy with this situation

This problem has been documented since the end of April. We were told that Outlaw was researching the problem. Isn't it about time that Outlaw announced the results of this investigation?

Allow me to pile on this bandwaggon! I too have had the aforementioned problem with LOTR TTT disk. I've turned the rear center channel "on", even though there is no speaker, and turned the 6.1 surround mode off but the unit automatically switches to and stays on the 6.1 mode after about 10 seconds of operation. Unfortunately, this substantially reduces the amount of sound coming from the two rear speakers. In other words, the rears sound great in 5.1 mode, not so good at all in 6.1. The only work around I've found is to pump up the surround trim to around +9db (normally set at around something like -1db). A major bummer indeed as I then have to reset the rear trim to listen to other programming. Fortunately, this is the only disc I have where I have encountered this problem. Not to excited about the prospect of having to buy and wire yet another speaker to solve the problem either!

Larry

I spoke to Scott from Outlaw today and I believe that I can correctly describe what is happening and the possible workarounds on this issue. I should also point out that it is my understanding from Scott, that Outlaw has no plans to address this situation.

1) The 1050 can decode all current DD 5.1EX encoded DVDs in 6.1 mode today. Therefore if you have the option of using 6 or 7 speakers you should take that option.

2) The 1050's ability to correctly playback DD 5.1EX encoded DVDs in 5.1 mode is dependent upon the specific DVD that is being played and the flags used on that DVD. For example the two H.P. DVDs are both described as being DD5.1EX. While the 1050 plays back the the Sourcer's Stone correctly in 5.1 mode (at least on my 1050), it does not play back the 2nd correctly in 5.1 mode. Based upon the reports above, LOTR part 1 and 2 are probably similar. The 1050 seems to have problems decoding at least some other DD 5.1EX DVDs as well.

If you cannot use 6 or 7 speakers as described above for a problem DVD, there are some options (described as a - d below). However, I doubt that they will please everyone.

a) If the DVD includes a DTS audio track, play in back in that mode. This option needs to be selected manually. While I haven't tested it, Scott indicates this will work. Obviously this doesn't work for LOTR TTT or HP COS as they don't have DTS audio tracks.

b) For some and only some DVDs, the 1050 decoding logic can be fooled by using the speaker configuration option to add a 6th speaker (even though there really isn't one)and then still playing the DVD in 5.1 mode.

Unfortunately strategy b fails for DVDs that include flags to automatically place the 1050 in 6.1 mode. This includes H.P. COS and possibly LOTR TTT. Once the 1050 goes into 6.1 mode, it thinks it has a rear speaker. Consequently, it looks at the matrixed left and right surround signals and removes the portion that is intended for the rear surround(s) from the signals sent to the right and left rears. Furthermore, it also lowers the left and right signals by 3 db. So not only is the volume lower, but depending upon the DVD, a whole lot of surround signal may have been sent into the neverland of the non existant sixth speaker.

c) Forget DD and use Dolby Prologic (the less said about this option the better).

d) Another individual's workaround was to use a DVD player that can decode DD 5.1 signals and input these directly into the 1050. However, the DVD player I looked at for this (a Denon) cost more than the 1050, so if you are not into DVD Audio, I am not sure this makes a lot sense. Potentially, you might also lose the LFE channel.


[This message has been edited by 73Bruin (edited September 04, 2003).]

I have to add some of my own experience to the above post.

Even if you have the sixth channel enabled and present, it won't work properly with HP COS and probably any other disc with that flag problem. The 1050, no matter how it is set-up, can't decode these DVDs properly. It's a different issue than not having the sixth channel speaker present and on.

Let me say this a different way. I have a sixth channel speaker enabled on my 1050 with a speaker attached to the output. Upon playing HP COS, the 1050 kicks to 6.1 mode and I lose the majority of the information in my surrounds. This is, at least the way I'm hearing it, different than just losing the center surround information.

Now that I've said all that, I also believe that their will probably never be a fix from Outlaw for this problem. It's a decoding issue that isn't going to go away without some internal changes and I'm not expecting anything, even from Outlaw, for a receiver I bought for $500.

Thank you 73Bruin for you investigation into this issue.

Jason:

My experience with 6 active speakers and the 1050 in 6.1 mode is different from yours.

Potentially this may be due to my not tuning the relative volumes of the various speakers correctly before doing the testing. I also had the rear surround speaker located directly behind my head (slightly above ear level) when testing. Another potential cause(although Scott at Outlaw has denied this), is that there are different versions of the 1050 firmware that react differently to the DD5.1EX signal.

In any, I seem to get a significant amount of surround sound out of the 1050 while playing HP COS in 6.1 mode. One scene in particular that jumped out was when Harry and Ron were flying the car to Hogwarts and the Train came up on them. The train appeared directly behind me. I also remember one scene (also with the car) where it seemed to be flying across the rear of the room.

My frustration arises from the fact that I have been unable to find a single reference to other equipment having problems with these DVDs (other that some statements in this thread about Onkyo equipment having the problem several years ago). As an example, my cousin's 5 or more year old Yamaha receiver (which is only a 5 channel device) plays these DVDs just fine in 5.1 mode.

This brings us to the final point of your letter. You are not expecting anything from Outlaw and site the cost. However, I purchased the unit with the expectation that it could correctly playback all Dolby 5.1EX encoded disks. I would not have purchased it otherwise. This is still my expecatation given that Outlaw still advertises on its website that the 1050 is "100-percent compatible with all Dolby Surround EX 6.1-channel theatrical soundtracks". While I am willing to allow that this may require the use of 6 speakers, I don't believe the cost of the 1050 has anything to do with this reasonable expectation.

I agree 100% with 73Bruin.

The product has been and and continues to be advertised as being able to decode Dolby Ex.



It is clear that it does not do what it purports to be able to do.

I think Outlaw needs to address this issue and resolve it. Be it a firmware fix, recall, a resonable monetary compensation for those who are willing to take that kind of compensation, public apologies, or whatever else form they might think of.

I think it is a rather poor that Outlaw simply dismisses the matter with "We have no plans to address this issue". I don't even owne the 1050, but had high regards for the company.

In the end, this gives me the impression that all manufacturers are the same. Big or small, when the economics are not there, the consumers get the short end of the stick.

Regards,

[This message has been edited by BleakShore (edited October 24, 2003).]

I was a little put off a few months ago after I emailed outlaw explaining that I had read the harry potter thread and understood it and needed to know how much content was lost with the suggested fix, and if they had an idea how frequently this problem might occur as new dvds are released. I got a prompt reply explaining that all I need to do is activate the rear center, and if I have further problems don't hesitate to ask. So I wrote back explaining that I knew all that, but I needed to know how much of a compromise results from no center rear speaker on a problem disk. Never heard from them again. I think I understand the can of worms they think they must avoid opening. Personally, I realize it's only a $500 receiver and I wouldn't expect them to do much other than take it back if it happened to be during the 30-day window. But an honest answer to a technical question would have been appreciated. I also agree the absence of a revision of the 1050 billing on the website is a mistake. I guess they figure most people will just add the sixth speaker, which isn't an option for me.

When the Model 1050 was developed almost 4 years ago the design team implemented format flag recognition software that was fully compatible with the then-current DD EX technology. We tested the unit with the discs and test material that was available at that time for certification purposes. Unfortunately, one of the down sides of being so ahead of our time was the fact that the first discs that had the final version of the flag were not released for almost three years after the 1050 was introduced, and during that time it appears that Dolby made some modifications to the original flag software in a manner that makes some EX discs incompatible with the Model 1050’s internal software.

This is not a fault of either Outlaw or Dolby, but rather an unfortunate by-product of trying to hit a moving technological target.

Since the Model 1050 is not, nor has ever been, advertised as upgradeable we regret that we are unable to revise the software to accommodate the changes that occurred after the product was certified and put into production.

Please keep in mind that this issue is only relevant when your system has a 5.1 speaker setup; systems with six speakers are not affected. For those with only five main speakers, the easiest way to get around any flag-related issues is to simply listen to the disc’s DTS soundtrack, as DTS discs do not produce this issue. Fortunately, virtually all of the discs that contain the EX flag also offer a DTS sound track. Of course, we might also suggest that you consider adding a sixth speaker so that you will not only resolve this issue but enjoy the full 6.1 soundfield provided on the disc. As such, we are now closing this thread.