Hiss & Crackle at Volumes 65+

I'm an outlaw at last! I purchased the 1050 and have it set-up with the Axio Audio Epic Grandmaster speaker set (12 guage spker. wire). The mains are large bookshelf speakers and match the center and surrounds real well. BTW, the surrounds are Quad-pole and are truly fantastic. Everything sounds really great until I get to about 65 on the volume knob. After that there's pretty serious degradation, particularly on highs.
It's not something I noticed the first few times I used the system, and it seems like maybe it happens more when the system has been running for a while and is HOT HOT HOT. Anyone know if maybe the 1050 is underpowered for the room I'm in (bout 15'x23') or if it might be the speaker (they are rated to 200w)? What does the 1050 sound like for others when it's dialed up above 65? If it's underpowered, I'm considering adding a 755 in a little bit as 5 channel is about all I have room for and a hell of an improvement over the AIWA bookshelf system I had for like, 12 yrs. Any help would be much appreciated.

What is the rated sensitivity of the speakers you're using? If expressed in decibel watts (and if my math is correct) the 1050 is conservatively rated at about 15 dbw, or music peaks 15db louder than the 1 watt figure in the speaker sensitivity rating. 200 watts is about 23 decibel watts, or 8 decibels louder. To get significantly louder would require something on the order of 500+ watts, although 8 db is certainly noticable.

If the 1050 is in fact running out of steam, and it's loud enough, or nearly so, then 200 watts may be plenty.

Charlie the Axiom mains (M22ti's) have two sensitivity ratings. One is rated as "SPL in room 1w/1m" and that's 93db. The other is Anechoic SPL 1w/1m" and that's 89db. My feeling is the 89 is probably more accurate.

If in fact the speaker/receiver combo is underpowered, then I'm in a quandry as to whether it would be better to get bigger speakers from Axiom (M80 w/ respective 95db and 91db sensitivity rating) or a bigger amp from outlaw (the 755 using the 1050 as pre-amp).

I just want to be sure that the crackling highs I'm experiencing would be a symptom of having the outlaw volume up too high. Do you think 65/80 on volume would be considered "too high", or enough so as to crackle the voices unbearably?

Thx for your response.

That depends on the speakers (how much current they draw) and the level of the input source. On my system clipping seems to set in around 70-75, so if that's typical then you may be hearing clipping. It's also (on my system) almost unbearably loud, but my speakers are more sensitive.

I'd suggest that the 8db you'd gain from the 755 is more than the 2db from the upgraded speakers, but the upgraded speakers might buy you other factors as well, such as improved voicing.

Also, I don't see any mention of a subwoofer. Without a sub the 1050 is going to route all bass and LFE to the front mains (IIRC) so this will be a factor. Just buying a powered sub may free up enough headroom to satisfy you and will also provide that 'big sub HT bang'. I'd strongly recommend a good sub if you in fact don't have one.

My 1050 runs hot too - I wonder if the amp section is biased a bit heavy into class 'A' or something on this design.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by charlie:

My 1050 runs hot too - I wonder if the amp section is biased a bit heavy into class 'A' or something on this design.[/QUOTE

I would be more concerned if it ran stone cold. I don't have any experience with the 1050, but as long as it's not getting obviously too hot to touch under idling conditions, I would'nt worry about it. Bias is almost always adjustable and can be measured by placing a DC voltmeter across the emitter resistors of the output transistors. However "don't try this at home" etc, etc....

Oh - I'm not worried. Just an observation. My XL-280 runs hot too.

Charlie
I do have a 175w powered sub, so the all spkr. setting on the 1050 are set to small, with crossover is set to 100 Hz. That wouldn't be the problem. I called Axiom and they actually have a 1050 in their shop and are going to try to re-create my problem. They had a lot of nice things to say 'bout the 1050 though.

You mentioned you get into clipping in the 70-75 range. Can you describe what clipping sounds like? I'm just trying to see if the cracking on the highs I hear is the same thing. Thx again.

Since I'm getting some indications that the volume I'm experiencing these problems at is very lound, perhaps the cheapest solution might be to get my ears cleaned out - lol. Honestly, though I'm almost at the point of contentment. Just need that little extra bit of vol.

I'll let everyone know what Axiom's tests show. They really have GREAT support as the gentleman I spoke with, Joe, actually seems to know what the heck he's talkin' about and then some.

I'm no good at this sort of thing. It sounds like clipping There is a decrease in clairity, an increase in perceived loudness and high frequency content. Maybe one of our more right-brain active types can do better?

In any case, it's unlikely you really need 200 watts on all channels - a pair of m200s or a good stereo power amp in front would probably do it if you do in fact need more power. You can actually get some really good amps on eBay if you know what to look for. I'm particularly fond of the older Hafler amps. I bought a mintish XL-280 a few months back for about $240, including the shipping.

Using an amp for the fronts also should free up some extra ooomph for the other channels.

Your post certainly got my attention since I have a pair of M22's on order.

Under Outlaw tips they claim you should be able to use the full range of your volume. I have five cheap Acoustic Research 215's ($100.00 a pair) that are rated at 89 dB's. With music (stereo) it starts to go bad at about 70 but it could be the limitations of my speakers. With movies (surround, less watts available) I've had it cranked all the way up and still sound decent. This could be the exception rather than the norm since I haven't watched many movies yet (I've only had my 1050 a few weeks).

Hopefuly someone else with this combo will read your post and shed some more light on the subject.

I will certainly be looking forward to your post in regards to what Axiom has to say about it.

Just a quick question. The Axiom M22i's are rated at 8 ohms. Do you have the switch on the back of your 1050 set to 4 or 8 ohms? This could explain a lack of volume in your room.

[This message has been edited by Jason J (edited February 27, 2003).]

I cant believe you could listen to it that loud. Some people say they listen to the 1050 around 60, but the windows would blow out of my house if I turned it up that loud... must be a difference in speakers

J Farr - I'll definitely let you know what's up with the Axiom test.

Jason - set to 8 ohm. I really should note that it's not a lack of volume on the whole, but really just the inability to "kick it up a notch" once in a while.

HI-FI - your spkrs are probably more sensitive. Also, the axiom M22s are bookshelf type spkrs so we're not talking too much punch on the whole. They do sound great though. Another factor could be the size of the room which is 15x23 with 20' ceilings through 1/2 the space.

I'll keep all posted on what I find.

20' foot ceilings...wow! That's a mighty large space. I would think to really kick a room like that you would need floorstanding speakers with some serious amps behind them. A look into possibly some M-200s powering the mains might not be that bad an idea. The fact that the Outlaw and Axiom combo gets the room going pretty nicely says a lot to me about just how powerful the 1050 is.

Well your 93db sensitivity seems more logical with room gain,now if we add 17db's from the 1050 Outlaw at one meter you will be getting 110db's,now we add another 3db's for running the center channel and you would have 113db's at one meter.NOW if you have calibrated your system at DOLBY DIGITAL Reference levels you would be hitting peaks of 105db's at your seatting area assuming it is at aproximatelly 12ft. from you main speakers.Remember you still have the 2 surround speakers that each would add another 3db's to you peaks,but because every time you double the distance from your speakers you loose db's(one meter 3db's)so if you seat at 12ft. should equal 4 meters,you would loose 12db's,but if you add you 3db's per speaker;you would end up with 107db's on peaks.Now that is not using your subwoofer only your main,center,and 2 surrounds.Would you agree, that could be very LOUD!